EFaaT
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[Solved] Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
I've exported some wav audio tracks from Band-In-A-Box into Sonar Platinum for tweaking. The song file is in the key of F, but Sonar imports it in C. It's an audio track!! Go figure. How can that be? The wav tracks play fine in Windows Media Player, but Sonar doesn't like them. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I might try importing the wavs into another DAW [which I don't have] and see how that handles them. Any thoughts? Please?
Thom Ebersole ASUS Essentio CM 6850, Intel i7-2600 CPU@ 3.4GHz, Win7 Home Premium x64, 12 GB RAM Sonar Platinum PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL PreSonus FaderPort MOTU MIDI Express XT Gabbanelli MIDI accordion, M-Audio KeyRig 49, Kawai MK-10
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/04 18:18:06
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Is biab using the same audio driver? You may have a sample rate conflict.
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BbAltered
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/04 18:33:04
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☄ Helpfulby joel77 2016/01/04 22:44:56
Hello. 1) The default "key" for CW audio projects is the key of C. You can change any audio file to a different key by opening the file in the Groove Construction window, and look for the drop-down list at the top of the window that specifies the key. You can turn off the automatic key transposition, tho' I don't know off the top of my head how to do that in Sonar (I'm not in front of my DAW now). 2) Make sure the original audio file and the CW project have the same sampling rate. If the CW project sampling rate is different from the sampling rate of the original audio, CW will change the sampling rate of the imported audio. Change the sampling rate could cause a change in pitch and the length of the audio file. I am sure other more knowledgeable people will be along shortly to help with more specific instructions.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/04 18:38:03
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☄ Helpfulby SquireBum 2016/01/05 00:52:11
I wouldn't be surprised if the BIAB files have Acidization/Groove Clip metadata to allow them to transpose, in which case (1) in the post above would be right on the money.
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EFaaT
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/04 19:32:42
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Oh man! This is why I love this forum, and this DAW. "BbAltered" gets the correct answer prize. I set the default Groove Clip Pitch to None and it's fine. Thanks for the help, guys. You're the best!
Thom Ebersole ASUS Essentio CM 6850, Intel i7-2600 CPU@ 3.4GHz, Win7 Home Premium x64, 12 GB RAM Sonar Platinum PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL PreSonus FaderPort MOTU MIDI Express XT Gabbanelli MIDI accordion, M-Audio KeyRig 49, Kawai MK-10
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jpetersen
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/04 19:52:50
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And a lurker (that's me) learns something new!
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BbAltered
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/04 21:02:39
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Hello. 1) 99% of the time, when I see something weird happening in Sonar (and most other audio software I use), the problem is between my two ears: either I am doing something wrong, or I am not understanding something, have forgotten to do something, etc. 2) This is a really good forum with intelligent and helpful people, where most questions expressed coherently can get answered. I'm glad you got it figured out, EFaaT. Rock on.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/04 21:59:12
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And just as an aside to this,, isn't it better to import BnaB as midi and use Sonar's better quality midi playback synths??? Last time I messed with BinaB it used sort of wavetable style synths...
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/04 22:26:51
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I've imported waves from bb and never had this issue. The only time the groove pitch would have an effect is if you turned the imported wave into a groove clip in SONAR.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/04 22:53:18
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] I've imported waves from bb and never had this issue.
But Noel - did you sign up for the BIAB membership? I think in their "Toronto" update, they added acidization metadata to WAV files. [kidding!]
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EFaaT
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/04 23:37:33
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☄ Helpfulby Skyline_UK 2016/01/06 16:53:13
Noel, I've never had this problem importing audio ever. And I've never used groove clips so why is the default key C, instead of "none?" Seems like something the user should set.
Thom Ebersole ASUS Essentio CM 6850, Intel i7-2600 CPU@ 3.4GHz, Win7 Home Premium x64, 12 GB RAM Sonar Platinum PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL PreSonus FaderPort MOTU MIDI Express XT Gabbanelli MIDI accordion, M-Audio KeyRig 49, Kawai MK-10
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EFaaT
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/04 23:44:16
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Cactus Music, if you haven't tried BIAB for a while take another look. They have some pretty fantastic real audio tracks that are played by great players incorporated, not just midi files and wavetables. It's impressive and I'm glad I took another look after all these years. Wish I had looked sooner. It's those real audio tracks that I was importing, and it would be a giant step backwards to convert it to midi to use soft synths. Take a listen some time.
Thom Ebersole ASUS Essentio CM 6850, Intel i7-2600 CPU@ 3.4GHz, Win7 Home Premium x64, 12 GB RAM Sonar Platinum PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL PreSonus FaderPort MOTU MIDI Express XT Gabbanelli MIDI accordion, M-Audio KeyRig 49, Kawai MK-10
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/05 00:09:58
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Yes it has been a long time, I was originally excited about the way the software allowed easy arranging of chord progressions and verse /chorus etc. It's layout was very easy for me to figure out,, but,, the finished product was terrible ( for me) I think the version I bought was for XP. I've since come up with a pretty good method of making my backing tracks from scratch with my wonderful Sonar templates and real bass. ( or else I find a good download which is rare) I would try a demo but I don't see there is one and the price seems a little out of my reach
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/05 12:30:22
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EFaaT Noel, I've never had this problem importing audio ever. And I've never used groove clips so why is the default key C, instead of "none?" Seems like something the user should set.
I can't speak for Noel, but I'm pretty sure Project Pitch relates only to Groove Clips/Acidized files. If it's set to "none," clips will import at their native pitch so regardless, Project Pitch will need to be set to something. With a default of C, given that many loop libraries are in C, the odds are somewhat better that the groove clips will work as expected than if none is selected.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/06 10:12:29
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Exactly the pitch is just a default and only applies to groove clips. If you import a Wave file from BIAB it is NOT a groove clip by default unless you explicitly turn it into one in SONAR. Maybe you accidently pressed CTRL-L?
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Skyline_UK
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/06 16:40:13
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Wow, this happened to me yesterday and I thought I was going mad! I didn't even feel confident to post about it! Thanks to Thom, the OP! Since BIAB introduced RealTracks and the facility to drag WAV instrument parts - either straight into Sonar with both BIAB and Sonar open, or by first dragging to BIAB's parking area then to desktop - this transposition has NEVER happened to me and I've done it scores of times. It happened to me this week and I couldn't understand what the heck was going on. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this problem has only just arisen, either through a change/fault in Sonar recent update(s) or BIAB's latest 2016 release. BIAB's WAV files are not groove clip files by default when brought into Sonar, they are straight WAVs. When this first happened yesterday I went to my Desktop and played the WAV in Windows Media Player to check it. Unsurprisingly it was ok, so BIAB is not at fault. As soon as I dragged it into Sonar it was automatically re-pitched. And I say again, this 'feature' never existed previously in Sonar. Why should it? Surely, when dragging a WAV file into a track the default MUST be to not change it in any way? Am I missing something? How can I stop this wrong behaviour? If I have to always in future re-pitch all clips by going into the Inspector then this is in my mind an unwanted feature at best or a bug at worst.
post edited by Skyline_UK - 2016/01/06 16:53:51
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msorrels
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/06 21:04:02
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Lexington seems to bring in properly Acidized wave files as groove loops when they are added/drag-n-dropped to the project. I can't remember for sure if it worked like this in the past. Sony's Acidized loops almost always seem to come in with looping and a key already attached. Like I had hit ctrl-L on the loop and filled out all the settings in the Clip properties under Groove Clip.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/06 21:43:49
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Skyline_UK BIAB's WAV files are not groove clip files by default when brought into Sonar, they are straight WAVs. When this first happened yesterday I went to my Desktop and played the WAV in Windows Media Player to check it. Unsurprisingly it was ok, so BIAB is not at fault. Unsurprising yes, but the correct reason for it being unsurprising is that Windows Media Player does not recognize metadata and will not transpose files. That experiment tells us nothing about BIAB or SONAR, only Windows Media Player. However the BIAB web site does tell us something about BIAB's new features for 2015: "You can now write Acidized information to the audio file." FWIW it now supports Apple Loops too. Your problem is not with SONAR, which is simply following instructions given to it by the BIAB file. Your problem is figuring out how not to write Acidized information to your BIAB audio files. Until you do, in SONAR set Project > Set Default Groove Clip Pitch to "none" so SONAR will ignore whatever you're accidentally telling it to do. As soon as I dragged it into Sonar it was automatically re-pitched. And I say again, this 'feature' never existed previously in Sonar. Absolutely not true, the ability to recognize Acidized metadata and transpose pitch as instructed (as well as conform to tempo) has ALWAYS existed in SONAR, starting with version 1.0. Later it did the same for REX files. It's BIAB that's changed, with a 'feature' that at least according to their own web site never existed previously.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/07 07:28:37
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try opening the exported wav in another editor that recognises that meta-data, e.g., soundforge, then you'll know for sure that it's biab
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EFaaT
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/07 08:47:37
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Craig, Noel, and everyone in between, this is all brand new to me. I'm glad to learn this. I don't think this can be classified as a "fault" of either program. Now that I know this, I like it. At least I know it can be corrected in Sonar. I'm going to investigate with the BIAB folks whether exporting with metadata can be turned off. Or not. But either way, knowing that Sonar has the feature flexibility to deal with it is comforting and all is well. Thanks to everyone for the comments...
Thom Ebersole ASUS Essentio CM 6850, Intel i7-2600 CPU@ 3.4GHz, Win7 Home Premium x64, 12 GB RAM Sonar Platinum PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL PreSonus FaderPort MOTU MIDI Express XT Gabbanelli MIDI accordion, M-Audio KeyRig 49, Kawai MK-10
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rkl122
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Re: Sonar importing audio file in wrong key. It's nuts!
2016/01/07 13:26:19
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☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2016/01/07 13:53:40
For BiaB (2016) users, FYI: The "Render to Audio File" window has a toggle switch for "Include Acid Info". The default is ON.
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