igiwigi
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[Solved] System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
Hi
Has anyone experienced Sonar not sending the whole Sys ex data from a song recorded on their Tyros or Psr keyboard and played back from transferring the keyboard onboard sounds to Usb stick and then getting sonar to play back exactly.
Need to edit some notes in songs made on my Tyros 5.
There is another person who experiences the same as portamento data is not sent for some reason from sonar back to our Tyros keyboards.
I have been waiting 3 days now for a reply from the sonar Tech department.
Mike Bedeseems Mixmaster and Maas's One man Band Plays the song 100% but Sonar does not.
I had also a report that no problems In Cubase.
The other person has even tried changing some lines In the TTSYS.ini file to no avail. which Is In Sonars documentation.
Can anyone at all help here .
Would be much appreciated
All the best
John
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azslow3
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/16 12:05:53
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I do not have Psr nor Tyros, but reading previous discussion, it is not clear either Sonar does not send something existing in the MIDI track or it sends something disturbing correct processing on Tyros side.
The first case is easy to check:
* take guaranteed good MIDI (taken outside Sonar)
* import it into sonar track
* in Sonar, use event viewer to check the messages in question are still there
* output this track to some MIDI loop (hardware or software) and so record what comes out of Sonar
* compare in the event viewer these 2 tracks
Instead of track comparison, you can export the second (recorded with loop) track as MIDI and play it with other software (which can play original MIDI file correctly).
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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igiwigi
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/16 12:24:00
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Hi
I have been there with comparing two versions of the same track.
I know I could use One Man Band for editing. It Is a little basic and jerky but plays my song perfectly.
As you said look at the events In sonar and they are all there ,but as soon as you press play the portamento has disappeared.
I really want sonar to play correctly with my Tyros as the piano roll In sonar is great.
There has got to be a solution somewhere for this,but you have to wait ages for a reply from cakewalk.
All the best
John
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igiwigi
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/16 14:28:31
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Anyone got any ideas how to solve this
I had a good reply on Psr Tut.
It seems that In sonar all the main Info Is crammed up at the front In the event list and can have abnormalities on playback
On a program that plays the midi back correctly the Info Is more spread out.
I am not really an expert on this subject but when we are talking milliseconds for things to be recognized things have to be readable.
Has Sonar guys got any Ideas here?????
All the best
John
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igiwigi
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/17 15:08:00
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MArwood
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/17 17:23:35
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Tyro has some "non-standard" midi stuff in it. Super voices is one of them. I have a friend that had one and it was difficult to transfer data to and from Sonar. I hope someone with a tyros will chime in.
"Edited spelling" New Tag line so I won't have to keep typing this. I may or may not have edited this yet, but I probably need to. < Message edited by MArwood -- 3/02/2525 3:45:05 AM >
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igiwigi
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/17 18:03:58
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Hi MA If you are talking Super voices ,are really saying Mega voices which Is the Yamaha term for them. They are used mainly in Backing Styles which Is different and another story. If transferring styles and playing In sonar you have to really record the chord progression for a song ,then transport that Into sonar and the backing will play back.You then can add more Tyros sounds on different tracks ,IF THEY PLAY PROPERLY!! or add Vst synths and sounds on others.You can have midi and vst in same project My problem Is that Sonar Is not playing back a song correctly with portamento on my synth sound as recorded(similar to the way CAMEL play (70s rock band) . I want to edit a few notes In piano roll to get really tight and then when finished turn It Into a wave file to assemble a song.I can do this on the Tyros ,but Is long winded and not as visual as piano roll. All the best John  Ps Thanks for trying to help me MA ,much appreciated
post edited by igiwigi - 2015/09/17 18:14:52
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Anderton
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/17 20:23:33
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I doubt Cakewalk has a Tyros for testing. I've never had a situation when SONAR didn't parse Sys Ex correctly and couldn't play back exactly what it recorded, so I doubt Cakewalk has either.
Try increasing the number of buffers and milliseconds per buffer in Preferences. Also turn off Active Sensing if the Tyros sends it. Active Sensing was a good idea 30 years ago, not so much any more.
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igiwigi
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/18 04:32:29
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Hi Anderton Tried Increasing the Buffer size --nothing. The manual of the Tyros does not mention active sensing and In the midi section of the Tyros 5 the setup Is very simple to set. I cannot understand why Sonar being an expensive program cannot do what a inexpensive program like One Man Band can do. Even Mike Bedeseems Mixmaster plays back correctly with Portamento One man Band Is a little basic in It's piano roll and in Mixmaster mixmaster you have to edit by Event list. Sonar's piano roll Is far quicker and more precise and importantly better visually. I have no problem with VST record and playback,It Is only when I want to edit using Tyros 5 sounds to playback from Sonar correctly. 4 days now and I have not had a reply from Sonar here In the uk. The Tyros 5 Is a great piece of modern equipment and should not be underated All the best John
post edited by igiwigi - 2015/09/18 04:43:33
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azslow3
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/18 05:51:23
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1) remove check (check it is not there) for "Zero controllers..." and "Patch/Controller Searchback..."
2) check you do not have Channel/Bank/Patch set for the MIDI track
3) do RTZ
4) setup MIDIOx to record the data and select it for the track output
5) play the track and record the result in MIDIOx. It is better start recording MIDIOx before starting Sonar, that will catch everything sent on startup/project load.
Record with MIDIOx the same track using program which works for you.
Compare the results.
(not that is was not suggested in the Internet... but I have not found any spells someone with related problem has really done that).
There is no magic in MIDI. There can be some timing issues, but that is unlikely.
You can continue to wait for someone who has solved the problem. Or you can find the problem and solve it. There are many people who can help you with the second approach, but not with the first.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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igiwigi
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/18 10:06:07
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Hi Aslow3 Well the problem has been solved, but not In Sonar permanently.You have to manipulate It. Big thanks for your suggestions. I have found out from a lot of discussion with fellow club members who know there onions,that If you open the Event list and go to the far right hand side ,then go down the list until the notes start----- Hold mouse over each note and move the values up 1 tick the Portamento Is bang on. As you know ,if you had a lot of portamento In a song It would take forever and a day doing this for every note when all you want to do Is minor adjustments to a song. Is there something Sonar could do to rectify this or is there a line you could write somewhere in computer language. I am not a computer techie, but now know what Is going on and It Is rather annoying when trying to edit a Tyros 5 Instrument section. As I said earlier One Man Band plays back my Portamento files perfectly without adjustments. The only trouble is ,that It Is a little basic for working with and would much prefer using Sonar's Piano roll. For the cost of Sonar I would have thought things like this would have been sorted ages ago. I cannot believe nobody else with Yamaha Instruments has not queried this problem. All I want to do Is get Sonar to play back what the Tyros sequencer has recorded and make minor timing adjustments. Not a lot to ask --HOPE!! If Sonar could fix this ,they will beat Cubase to It!!!well,BIG HOPE!!  4 days now gone .still no reply from Sonar support  All the best John
post edited by igiwigi - 2015/09/18 10:15:44
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azslow3
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/18 12:17:45
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Well, I see you confirmation on psr forum. That make sense. I could not participate there (see PS), sorry. To summaries the problem (since you for some reason have not done that yet): Notes should overlap for portamento (?). But it sounds like Tyros produce really tiny overlap (I have not checked that myself yet, for the reason in PS...). And Tyros writes MIDI with unsupported by Sonar ticks (too small). As the result, Sonar lowering tick resolution produce not overlapping notes, and so discard portamento. General solution: Increase all notes duration by small amount (1 tick?) Practical solution (the first in my mind): Select the track, select all data withing the track (','), from Sonar menu do "Process/Length...", uncheck "Start times", check "Durations", enter 101 (%), click "Ok". It is also possible to do in the PR, select all notes and drag right edge a bit. Better solution: write (or find) special CAL script which will do the trick. Stock CAL has "Legato", but it makes all notes overlap... There are quite some CAL experts here which can help to modify it (I am not). May be such script already exists. Proper solution: submit Sonar bug report, with program description, source and result files. Not sure they fix it fast, but who know. PS. PSR forum requires login to see attachments. They use SMF software (the same as I use) and that is default option. I have not realized that before, so I have not seen your files.
post edited by azslow3 - 2015/09/18 12:38:44
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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igiwigi
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/18 12:58:54
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Hi Aslow
I much appreciate your feedback here and will let the other helpers know as i am not up to speed with The Ins and outs of the tech stuff.
I will see about a bug report,but I am not sure how to word It
I will get back later
all the best
john
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scook
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/18 13:04:54
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The reporting system is down for a few days. It should be available next week. When you create the report, make sure to reference this thread.
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igiwigi
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/18 13:45:40
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Thanks M8 for letting us know all the best John Have a great weekend
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igiwigi
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/21 17:05:08
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B ig Thanks to Azslow 3.The Tyros 5 Portamento synths are wacking along!!! Thank you for the Cal fileEverything IS WORKING FANTASTCALLY. All the best John
post edited by igiwigi - 2015/09/21 17:14:21
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azslow3
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Re: System Exclusive and Psr or Tyros keyboards
2015/09/21 17:47:36
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Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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