[Solved-ish: use Radius Mix Offline] Vocalsync doesn't seem to like "growl" vocals.

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Beepster
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2016/01/24 14:35:05 (permalink)

[Solved-ish: use Radius Mix Offline] Vocalsync doesn't seem to like "growl" vocals.

Edit: It seems that changing the Offline Render algorithm in the Clip Inspector from the default "Radius Solo (Vocal)" to "Radius Mix (Advanced)" works much better upon rendering. The regular Radius Mix probably works fine too.
 
To access those settings you just need to Press I on the keyboard to open the Inspector > Click on the "Clips" tab > Select the "Audiosnap" entry from the Clip Inspector options > Click on the "Offline" render option. Here you will see (for Vocalsync Region FX clips) the default is Radius Solo (Vocal). Switch it to Radius Mix (Advanced) before you render your Vocalsync clip.
 
This seems to get rid of all the "warbling" and various stretching type artifacts the Radius Solo option left behind.
 
Original Post...
 
==============================================================
 
Yet another new goodie that seems to be metal-phobic. Been wanting try out VS for while now and got a chance today. I tried aligning a growl track to a more annunciated and it aligned well enough but had wicked artifacts. I figured rendering would get rid of them (Radius Vocal)... nope. The result was all warbly and what not. The tracks were hardly out of sync. I was just trying to nudge the syllables a tad closer.
 
Oh well. I might try other render algos but I don't think it's gonna work. I may have better luck with Melodyne but that has to be done by ear (or maybe the new version allows track syncing?).
 
Drum Replacer also seems to hate hi velocity metal too (tried that a few months ago)... at least on full kits which is understandable I guess but still disappointing. I'll be using that on some properly separated recordings soon enough so hopefully it will fare better... otherwise I'll have to apply the replacement manually which will be quite laborious.
 
I guess I'll have to save these tools for some of my more demure material.
 
D'oh!
 
Not a full on whinge. Just a report. These types of "automagic" tools never quite seem to work on my stuff. I think it's just too weird or something.
post edited by Beepster - 2016/01/25 13:30:50
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    notscruffy2
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    Re: Welp... Vocalsync doesn't seem to like "growl" vocals. That's a shame. 2016/01/24 15:07:31 (permalink)
    How many measures were you doing at one time. I find it works best if you do small bits with multiple region effects as opposed to one larger region. Just render as often as needed along the way. It might help.
     
    #2
    slartabartfast
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    Re: Welp... Vocalsync doesn't seem to like "growl" vocals. That's a shame. 2016/01/24 15:07:51 (permalink)
    If you want some insight into why software designed to handle vocal music fails on death growl material, the following reference will give you some good insights. Basically, the growl is a pretty unmusical waveform, like a sustained drum or cymbal crash that largely obscures the overtone landmarks and complicates harmonic analysis.
     
    https://courses.physics.illinois.edu/phys406/student_projects/spring05/chuck_stelzner/chuck_stelzner_p498pom_final_report.pdf
     
     
    #3
    Beepster
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    Re: Welp... Vocalsync doesn't seem to like "growl" vocals. That's a shame. 2016/01/24 15:21:40 (permalink)
    @notscruffy... Oh, the alignment is totally working (and I split it into sections but not into phrases or words because at that point it's not really worth it... might as well use Audiosnap). It's just the render can't handle it.
     
    @slarta... Yup. That's what I figure was going on. The same deal with the DR stuff (just too much going on for that to work but that was the actual detection that was borking out... this VS thing is different).
     
    I think I'd have better luck aligning the less growly/more articulated vocal to the growl track but the growl track is the one I wanted to fix.
     
    It's really not out that much and this was kind of a test more than anything but what MIGHT work is using AS to adjust the growler by hand then aligning the artic track using VS to that.
     
    Since it's the Render that's screwing up that might work better.
     
    But then I have a bunch of other tracks (some of which are growlers as well) I want to align to those.
     
    Essentially I'm doing something completely ridiculous as usual.
     
    Melodyne could indeed be the tool to make this happen the more I think about it (better rendering methinks) but again... that would need to be done manually because it's not a "time" fix so much as a "make this track match up to this track"... which is what VS is billed as.
     
    Meh.
     
    That cat'll get skinned one way or another... or I may just let it keep it's fur and make it sound crazy in other ways.
     
    lol
     
    Cheers.
    #4
    gswitz
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    Re: Welp... Vocalsync doesn't seem to like "growl" vocals. That's a shame. 2016/01/24 19:02:16 (permalink)
    I use drum replacer to good effect. Frankly, the results aren't so different from extracting midi with audio snap, but it does seem better. I always copy the midi to a new channel and remove drum replacer from the original drum track. I usually use it on the kick. After copying the midi, I listen back with the replaced track soft and watch the now time on the midi track. I delete some notes, reduce the volume on others.

    This turns out to be way less effort than doing it with audio snap extractions.

    I've tried touching up snare, but that tells on the touch up more, so I usually bag it.

    I haven't done anything interesting with vocal sync.
    post edited by gswitz - 2016/01/24 21:31:51

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #5
    Beepster
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    Re: Welp... Vocalsync doesn't seem to like "growl" vocals. That's a shame. 2016/01/25 10:58:08 (permalink)
    I think I may need try rendering using the Radius Mix Advanced setting. Just reading up a little more on the render modes and maybe the growls have kind of a "polyphonic" quality. I'll check it out in a bit and report back.
     
    @Geoff... Yeah, DR is definitely just a really task specific and souped up AS and ARA thingie. I do kind of wish they smooshed some correction stuff into it as well though (like AS). That would really round it out nicely.
     
    I was also kind of hoping it would let you swipe hits and paste them over top of others right in the original track. Like for a dropped hit or an accidental stick hit on the snare just go and snag a good hit from elsewhere on the track and splice it in. Of course that can be done in the TV already but I think it would be a lot easier in the DR view. I guess there would probably have to be a way to link or load ALL the spcific kit tracks too so when such actions are taken on one (stretching or copy/pasting) it affects all the clips.
     
    Like load them all up but you can just work on one track at a time.... but have the affects change all of them in the background. Select which track you want to futz with from a dropdown or something (in the top window) and then have the two windows below left as is. Of course those changes then affect the replacement tracks and any MIDI extracted.
     
    Dare to dream. lol
    #6
    Beepster
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    Re: Welp... Vocalsync doesn't seem to like "growl" vocals. That's a shame. 2016/01/25 13:24:21 (permalink)
    Yup... Radius Mix set as the Offline Render option in the Clip Inspector produced a much better after render clip. The default is Radius Solo which doesn't like growling it seems.
     
    The results in general still aren't amazing overall but this is working better for sure.
     
    I edited my OP to include full details/instructions.
     
    Cheers.
    #7
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