Dave Modisette
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Somebody else is kicking our butt.
Did I mention lately that I'm on the SONAR X1 bus? But I've got to make it known that when it comes to friendly input names and being able to change a source input for a track someone else has got a much better way of naming inputs. I've got track templates set up to overcome the weak friendly input name convention that SONAR has. But guess what? Spontaneous things happen when you have clients show up and they change their minds. Sometimes you need to route a different mic pre or a mixer channel and the object of the game is to do it fast. This is where another product has SONAR beat. Let's call this product, "Product R." Look at the left column and see how easy it is to recognise each input source and how it is routed. I tried to come up with a sceme to do the same thing in the right column. I would have put more information there but it makes things worse. Don't you think that this would be a worthy project for the new guy at the shop? http://www.gatortraks.com/images/Mono%20Inputs.JPG
post edited by Mod Bod - 2012/04/13 21:09:35
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John
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/13 21:20:11
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"A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet".
I understand that many have complaints about unfriendly names for audio outs and ins. I don't much care about it. I have never been confused or mistaken about what ins and outs I am using.
That does not mean I am in any way opposed to an upgrade.
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Michael Five
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/13 21:25:27
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Dave, honestly, I don't see an appreciable difference between the two. But the key word here is 'appreciable' - to me, as an outsider looking into your studio. Cleaner and simpler are usually always better unless you lose the baility to get at the details when you need 'em.
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Dave Modisette
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/13 21:32:50
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John
"A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet".
I understand that many have complaints about unfriendly names for audio outs and ins. I don't much care about it. I have never been confused or mistaken about what ins and outs I am using.
That does not mean I am in any way opposed to an upgrade.
May I ask how many inputs and outputs are you dealing with?
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Keni
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/13 22:05:09
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Hi Dave...
I use as many as 32 inputs on one of my DAW's... I personally have no problem with it. I barely altered the actual names as mine appear right now in groups of three. Left/right and stereo for each pair of inputs. They turn up at my patch bay with their relative number... Very simple.
Are you using multiple interfaces from different manufacturers?
All I need to know is the input number
Keni
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John
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/13 22:16:36
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Mod Bod
John
"A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet".
I understand that many have complaints about unfriendly names for audio outs and ins. I don't much care about it. I have never been confused or mistaken about what ins and outs I am using.
That does not mean I am in any way opposed to an upgrade.
May I ask how many inputs and outputs are you dealing with?
16 in 2 out. Previously it was 8 in 8 out.
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Dave Modisette
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/13 22:23:10
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Keni
Hi Dave...
I use as many as 32 inputs on one of my DAW's... I personally have no problem with it. I barely altered the actual names as mine appear right now in groups of three. Left/right and stereo for each pair of inputs. They turn up at my patch bay with their relative number... Very simple.
Are you using multiple interfaces from different manufacturers?
All I need to know is the input number
Keni
No, the only interface I have is my Frontier Dakota - 16 inputs with a stereo SPDIF. What gets me is that I get "Left ASIO Dakota (24 Bit) ADAT 1, Right ASIO Dakota (24 Bit) ADAT 1, Left," then the stereo version and then it jumps to ADAT 3. I mean, I can function and I get things sorted out but since going to another program, it made life so much easier. You can even save friendly names as user presets so that you can change them per project.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 02:07:45
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As a matter of interest are they showing the same inputs?
I agree the 'R' version looks cleaner but it's not immediately obvious (to me at least) how I'd select a stereo input in that version.
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Living Room Rocker
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 03:03:43
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Dave, surely we are getting our butts whipped with something weightier than "friendly names." I would love to have per project preferences such as you described, but I believe the ante is much larger at the moment. Just another one for the FR list, I guess. Take care, Living Room Rocker
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David
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 06:01:51
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yes , Dave I am with you on this! A small thing but nice!
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djoni
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 07:17:33
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I am used to my input names: 1L, 1R, 1 Stereo etc...up to 32.
But it woud be nace if we cold rename the input names to 1, 2, 3, 4 etc...or whatever we want...
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Freddie H
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 07:32:46
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Mod Bod
Did I mention lately that I'm on the SONAR X1 bus? But I've got to make it known that when it comes to friendly input names and being able to change a source input for a track someone else has got a much better way of naming inputs.
I've got track templates set up to overcome the weak friendly input name convention that SONAR has. But guess what? Spontaneous things happen when you have clients show up and they change their minds. Sometimes you need to route a different mic pre or a mixer channel and the object of the game is to do it fast.
This is where another product has SONAR beat. Let's call this product, "Product R."
Look at the left column and see how easy it is to recognise each input source and how it is routed. I tried to come up with a sceme to do the same thing in the right column. I would have put more information there but it makes things worse.
Don't you think that this would be a worthy project for the new guy at the shop?
http://www.gatortraks.com/images/Mono%20Inputs.JPG
I see this a lot on the this FORUM. Many haven't explored all the possibilities with SONAR or other programs. Of course you can freely name the inputs and outputs in SONAR. In SONAR X1. 1. Go to "Edit" and "Preferences" 2. Under " AUDIO" and "DEVICES" in bottom check "Use friendly names to represent audio drivers" 3. As you can see now you can re-name any input or output to any name of choice. Hope it helps! 
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 07:40:21
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This is one of those features where the implementation reveals that Cakewalk can't make a good decision internally.
When the "friendly names" features was rolled out we were told we could make the names anything we want, and then we all had to learn the "gotchas". How does that happen? Can't someone in Cakewalk figure out the difference between good and ugghh?
It was a good idea and it wasn't executed. It was rolled out as an improvement and it was barely an improvement.
It serves a classic example of Cakewalk's habit of serving up features half baked and it highlights Cakewalks habit of leaving a half baked implementation lingering year after year.
I already paid for it once, but I'd pay again for the upgrade that let us make the friendly names say exactly what we want with no prefixes or suffixes added.
best regards,
mike
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 07:44:37
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Freddie H
Mod Bod
Did I mention lately that I'm on the SONAR X1 bus? But I've got to make it known that when it comes to friendly input names and being able to change a source input for a track someone else has got a much better way of naming inputs.
I've got track templates set up to overcome the weak friendly input name convention that SONAR has. But guess what? Spontaneous things happen when you have clients show up and they change their minds. Sometimes you need to route a different mic pre or a mixer channel and the object of the game is to do it fast.
This is where another product has SONAR beat. Let's call this product, "Product R."
Look at the left column and see how easy it is to recognise each input source and how it is routed. I tried to come up with a sceme to do the same thing in the right column. I would have put more information there but it makes things worse.
Don't you think that this would be a worthy project for the new guy at the shop?
http://www.gatortraks.com/images/Mono%20Inputs.JPG
I see this a lot on the this FORUM. Many haven't explored all the possibilities with SONAR or other programs. Of course you can freely name the inputs and outputs in SONAR.
In SONAR X1.
1. Go to "Edit" and "Preferences"
2. Under "AUDIO" and "DEVICES" in bottom check "Use friendly names to represent audio drivers"
3. As you can see now you can re-name any input or output to any name of choice.
Hope it helps!
Great job Freddie!!! That's like rubbing salt in a wound.... because after you do all that, you'll figure out that the names you see in the drop down list in TV or CV have stuff added to them in an UNFRIENDLY way. These are exactly the steps that people took 5+ years ago... and some of us are still wondering who was asleep at the wheel when the actual result of that sort of short sighted development was allowed to slip through. Even though I already paid for it once, I'd pay to get it fixed. edit spelling and grammar
post edited by mike_mccue - 2012/04/14 07:56:52
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John T
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 07:54:12
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There's definitely room for improvement on this, yeah.
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Dave Modisette
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 08:02:31
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Freddie H
Mod Bod
Did I mention lately that I'm on the SONAR X1 bus? But I've got to make it known that when it comes to friendly input names and being able to change a source input for a track someone else has got a much better way of naming inputs.
I've got track templates set up to overcome the weak friendly input name convention that SONAR has. But guess what? Spontaneous things happen when you have clients show up and they change their minds. Sometimes you need to route a different mic pre or a mixer channel and the object of the game is to do it fast.
This is where another product has SONAR beat. Let's call this product, "Product R."
Look at the left column and see how easy it is to recognise each input source and how it is routed. I tried to come up with a sceme to do the same thing in the right column. I would have put more information there but it makes things worse.
Don't you think that this would be a worthy project for the new guy at the shop?
http://www.gatortraks.com/images/Mono%20Inputs.JPG
I see this a lot on the this FORUM. Many haven't explored all the possibilities with SONAR or other programs. Of course you can freely name the inputs and outputs in SONAR.
In SONAR X1.
1. Go to "Edit" and "Preferences"
2. Under "AUDIO" and "DEVICES" in bottom check "Use friendly names to represent audio drivers"
3. As you can see now you can re-name any input or output to any name of choice.
Hope it helps!
Thanks for the attempt to help but in your haste to trivialize my request, you didn't truly look at the original photo before posting your comment. You will see that I have a complete understanding of "friendly names" in SONAR. It's just that SONAR sees everything in stereo pairs and not mono inputs. Therefore, you will never get the result you want. Try naming your first two inputs UA-710 and SP VTB1, respectively. You can't do it. Not every input is a stereo input and SONAR doesn't take allow you to take that in account.
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Dave Modisette
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 08:07:23
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Living Room Rocker
Dave, surely we are getting our butts whipped with something weightier than "friendly names." I would love to have per project preferences such as you described, but I believe the ante is much larger at the moment. Just another one for the FR list, I guess. Take care, Living Room Rocker
The small things like this add up. It's the details of fully developing a feature and not just checking off something in a "to do" list. This shouldn't be something that is hard to fix. It's not sexy and it won't make a bullet point in an ad but if you are working with strangers watching you, it speeds up the process when you are trying to give someone the most value for their dollar.
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Dave Modisette
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 08:10:26
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John
Mod Bod
John
"A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet".
I understand that many have complaints about unfriendly names for audio outs and ins. I don't much care about it. I have never been confused or mistaken about what ins and outs I am using.
That does not mean I am in any way opposed to an upgrade.
May I ask how many inputs and outputs are you dealing with?
16 in 2 out. Previously it was 8 in 8 out.
Ok, we should have the same point of reference. Would it be too much to ask for you to do a screen capture of what your input drop down list looks like? Maybe my Dakota card driver isn't describing to SONAR what it's configuration is adequately.
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John T
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 08:11:09
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I can think of loads of ways it could be better, none of them complicated. Firstly, the ordering doesn't really conform to any human workflow I can think of. It goes left right stereo, left right stereo, etc. Why not just have Mono 1-X followed by Stereo 1-X? When going into the list, you already know whether you want a mono or stereo selection, and the current sort order is the second slowest to parse after random I can think of.
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Dave Modisette
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 08:12:47
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FastBikerBoy
As a matter of interest are they showing the same inputs?
I agree the 'R' version looks cleaner but it's not immediately obvious (to me at least) how I'd select a stereo input in that version.
In this product there are two dropdown windows. One is for mono inputs and the other is stereo inputs so you get both worlds. When I open the stereo input window, the layout is as confusing as SONAR's in regards to mono sources. EDIT: I take my statement back. It is not nearly as confusing as SONAR. Here is a friendly name set up in Product R showing mono and stereo input selections. You will see that it is very clear what is what when you format the list in this manner. Anyone could come into my studio and know how my gear is routed in regards to inputs and not have to ask for a assignment sheet printed from a separate word processor to know how my pres are routed. http://www.gatortraks.com/images/Stereo%20Input.JPG You will also quickly see that you can assign stereo pairs in more than one configuration. IOW, stereo 1 &2, Stereo 2&3, Stereo, 3&4, Stereo, Stereo 4&5 etc.
post edited by Mod Bod - 2012/04/14 08:36:05
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John T
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 08:40:13
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So to my mind, the real problem is that the list shows a ton of redundant information. For example, it specifies whether you're accessing an IN or an OUT. But I already know that, as I am either in the in or out drop down list. Secondly, it describes mono inputs as the left and right sides of a pair, with two numbers. What? "Right In 1-2" is a crazy way to describe "Mono 2". Finally, the sorting of the list makes no sense, with stereo in with mono, and the lack of seperation and grouping doesn't help make it any more readable. Here's what mine currently looks like:  And here's what I think it should look like: 
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trimph1
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 09:02:42
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JT.
That is what I am thinking of as well. Yours looks a lot cleaner actually
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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Dave Modisette
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 09:07:10
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trimph1
JT.
That is what I am thinking of as well. Yours looks a lot cleaner actually
It looks to me like what we need is similar to a Plugins Manager where anyone can format their plugins in a logical (to them) format. We should be able to display our inputs and outputs in a format that works for us individually and have truly friendly names.
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John T
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 09:08:22
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Cheers. Also, I'd say we're not talking about anything radical or tricky there. It's basically the same, with a bit of simple filtering of the data.
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John T
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 09:10:03
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Dave: I can see the merits of a totally configurable thing, but even before going that far, I think the default behaviour should be improved. I think this is, in a general sense, Sonar's weakness against some of the newer competition; the out-of-the-box experience is not especially elegant.
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Dave Modisette
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 09:17:53
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John T
Dave: I can see the merits of a totally configurable thing, but even before going that far, I think the default behaviour should be improved. I think this is, in a general sense, Sonar's weakness against some of the newer competition; the out-of-the-box experience is not especially elegant.
Wise input there. Why complicate things when a basic interpretation will make things clear and consise? One of the downfalls of the Product R experience is that by the time everyone (users) gets their personal input into each feature it becomes a complicated mess. However, this particular implementation is elegant in it's simplicity and usefulness. SONAR needs to clean this up because it's basic housekeeping that's gone neglected for too long.
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John T
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 09:22:29
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Yeah, that's one of the things that I actually *don't* like about product R. All that design-your-own-UI stuff is very clever, and extremely flexible, but if I wanted to be a UI designer, I'd have bought Adobe Flash. The best thing a DAW can do is make things easy and obvious and get out of your way as much as possible.
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John T
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 09:25:02
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One of the things I've thought for years is that Cakewalk should go out and hire, specifically, an absolutely ace ninja UI designer and give them a decent level of seniority. I do think the whole Skylight thing is a big leap forward for them, so I don't think this is as pressing as it was. But as you say, a lot of the niggles are basically simple housekeeping stuff that a good UI chief wouldn't let through. This list is a great example; it's ordered in a way that makes total sense from a programmer's perspective, and none from a user's.
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Dave Modisette
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 09:32:05
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John T
One of the things I've thought for years is that Cakewalk should go out and hire, specifically, an absolutely ace ninja UI designer and give them a decent level of seniority. I do think the whole Skylight thing is a big leap forward for them, so I don't think this is as pressing as it was. But as you say, a lot of the niggles are basically simple housekeeping stuff that a good UI chief wouldn't let through. This list is a great example; it's ordered in a way that makes total sense from a programmer's perspective, and none from a user's.
I think it was a hold over from the early days when everyone was using a single stereo input card and most of us had stereo mic pres or interfaces with an even number of inputs connected to a like minded kind of unit. I admit that I didn't have any problems with it until I started my pursuit of better pres and the cost of mono vs stereo made me have to compromise with the mono versions.
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John T
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Re:Somebody else is kicking our butt.
2012/04/14 09:33:44
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You're probably right, but that evolution happened a good long while ago now. It's definitely overdue for a tidy up.
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