Anderton
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Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
My computer recently had several Windows updates, including going to 1709. What I've found so far is that SONAR is loading faster and running more smoothly; the tradeoff seems to be a longer shutdown time. Although I continue to experience the occasional SONAR glitch, there's nothing that wasn't happening before the updates.
Like many of you I've been focused on what happens if Windows "breaks" SONAR, but another possibility is that as Windows becomes more refined, SONAR will benefit from this instead of experience problems. This may fall under the "wishful thinking" category, but still, based on my current experience I'm not prepared to rule it out.
Although I'm getting up to speed on Studio One so I can work with future MIDI enhancements, there are still several types of projects where nothing does the job as well as SONAR...so I want to use SONAR for these types of projects, as well as finish legacy ones, for as long as humanly possible.
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stxx
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/03 20:48:29
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I agree but I recently picked up CUBASE at an excellent crossgrade price and also have Mixbus 32C n the event I am FORCED to move
Sonar Platinum, RME UFX, UAD 2, Waves, Soundtoys, Fronteir Alphatrack, X-Touch as Contl Srfc, , Console 1, Sweetwater Creation Station Quad Core Win 8.1, Mackie 824, KRK RP5, AKG 240 MKII, Samson C-Control, Sennheiser, Blue, AKG, RODE, UA, Grace, Focusrite, Audient, Midas, ART Song Portfolio: https://soundcloud.com/allen-lind/sets/oth-short
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Anderton
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/03 20:52:43
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For sure, you definitely need backup. All I'm saying is there's a possibility changes to Windows might improve SONAR instead of break it.
As just one example, SONAR can handle Bluetooth LE but the protocol itself is still young. If BLE becomes enhanced, then SONAR will just puts its hooks into that enhanced protocol, and may work better with BLE as a result.
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Karyn
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/03 21:20:57
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Or the protocol becomes enhanced and Sonar gets hung up with new extensions it doesn't understand....
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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GreenwoodStudios
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/03 21:31:09
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I appreciate your post @Anderton, concur 100% only to add that I have put ‘old’ software on my Windows 10 Professional laptop and built within via ‘compatibility mode’. I don’t know what will happen but sort of ‘see’ this like the way GigaStudio went.
That said sir, your presence here on this forum I view as a bit of a blessing given your background ~ hopefully you’ll stay with all of us as we forge our way into the future. I updated Sonar Platinum last night which included a few new things, content went where it chose to w/o asking but whatever. I intend to continue to use Sonar, why not?
My only wish would be that the CCC had an option to download ‘everything’ from my account to a hard drive one last time before the inevitable ~ the server going off which might be without notice. My goal is to ‘beat the clock’ hopefully and get everything installed on an older Core2Quad custom built machine as a dedicated studio machine. It’s a cross country trip though to get it out of storage...
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GreenwoodStudios
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/03 21:33:23
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*via the built with ‘compatibility mode’
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DannyDee
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/03 23:02:35
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hope you're right Craig
thanks for your continued input
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LLyons
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 02:01:19
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That’s an interesting idea Craig. I’m with you too on using Sonar for what it’s good for. I have S1 3 Pro with a CS18 and RM32 and enjoying learning a matched set of tools with a somewhat clear future. I will use Platinum till the wheels fall off. That’s a pretty good position to be in.
L Lyons DOS and Windows Pro Audio 2-9 from 12 Tone, Sonar 2, 2XL, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 8.5, Producer, Producer Expanded, X1 Producer, X2 Producer, X3 Producer and now Sonar Platinum 64 bit - 2nd year Home Built Machine 32G Ram - Corsair Vengeance DDR4 Win 10 Pro Intel i7-6700K Gigabyte Z170-UD5 Thunderbolt3 - AVB ready Planar Hellium 27 touchscreen Limited connection to internet DAW use ONLY WAVES 9.2 64 Bit MOTU 1248 - Connect Thunderbolt MOTU AVB Switch Presonus RM32ai - Connect firewire 800 CS18ai - Connect AVB
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 02:55:46
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☄ Helpfulby Radim 2018/01/05 13:00:34
I initially hit the panic button and started looking at Mixcraft and Studio One but you know I have a DAW that's 64 bit, supports VST3 and runs pretty seemlessly on the latest Windows 10 release. I've got an image I can restore if an update kills it but I think that's unlikely. I've run every windows 10 update for the last 2-1/2 years with only one problem in Sonar which occurred with Quicktime Video but MS fixed that within a week. No-one else has a Pro-channel which is what all my mixes are based around now. Sonar has also worked great for legacy stuff and Control Surfaces. Thanks to Jbridge I can still use my Liquid Mix Compressors and thanks to AZCTRL I have control of everything with a BCF2000 and an AlphaTrack. To be honest I was getting sick of installing updates every month I've easily got my $100 worth from the rolling updates. I don't want any other features, I just want to make some music now and Sonar still does that superbly as far as I'm concerned. I hope a few others hang in there.
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LANEY
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 02:57:35
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I hate when after you update sometimes Sonar shuts down unexpectedly and says file has been saved and crashed dump to C:/....
i7/16GB ram Win 7 x64 SONAR Platinum Producer x64 VS-700 C&R Octa-Capture and VS-100 for live recording
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 03:16:16
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Anderton
My computer recently had several Windows updates, including going to 1709. What I've found so far is that SONAR is loading faster and running more smoothly; the tradeoff seems to be a longer shutdown time. Although I continue to experience the occasional SONAR glitch, there's nothing that wasn't happening before the updates.
Like many of you I've been focused on what happens if Windows "breaks" SONAR, but another possibility is that as Windows becomes more refined, SONAR will benefit from this instead of experience problems. This may fall under the "wishful thinking" category, but still, based on my current experience I'm not prepared to rule it out.
Although I'm getting up to speed on Studio One so I can work with future MIDI enhancements, there are still several types of projects where nothing does the job as well as SONAR...so I want to use SONAR for these types of projects, as well as finish legacy ones, for as long as humanly possible.
It's not an either/or scenario I really don't understand why you do posts like this they are just plain silly. Sure Windows performance can get better and more reliable, but ultimately if Windows stops supporting a programming library that Sonar needs to function it will break, unless you have a backup solution or you able to freeze updates. It's that simple. Now we all know why you are really posting here, you want the flock to follow you to Studio ONE - the next target you are aiming for. Of course you do. Have fun/love and kisses.
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 03:21:12
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Cactus Music
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 03:28:16
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Funny this thread about W10, I'm 10 minutes away from taking it off my second DAW.
I've had it --
I use 2 computers almost equally right now. One upstairs and one downstairs. Both are fully loaded and licensed with all things Sonar and 3rd party stuff all authorized. I also have Cubase and Wavelab on both.
The upstairs DAW I just re built with W8.1 and as the weeks go by this has been a good move. So far absolutely nothing has gone wrong. I'm not predicting anything will. I used it originally for over a year like that until W10 installed itself without my permission. Thank goodness that can't happen again.
Not so with the W10 downstairs set up. I just had to do the whole re authorize all my 3rd party stuff including the Steinberg e licencer. AGAIN! not only that, it has kicked me out of One Drive and refuses my password which is very annoying. Then It wants my MS password just to open friggin Word 2016!! What kind of OS makes everything think it's in a new machine everytime it updates?? That's nuts' It's almost so bad I start to think about Mac's!! and if you knew me you'd know that's extreme!
You can have your W10 and you can spend 2 hours every couple of weeks fixing what it breaks. The downstairs box came with W7 pro, It still has the serial on the side, I'm good to go. Need to do it before the servers die in May or what ever.
Sorry about the rant... all I wanted to do was print a lyric!! It took me an hour!!! I ended up using my W 7 laptop. took 2 min.
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ampfixer
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 04:09:18
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Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Anderton
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 05:04:55
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2018/01/04 23:08:09
CakeAlexSHere
It's not an either/or scenario I really don't understand why you do posts like this they are just plain silly. And I don't think anyone who doesn't share your, uh, "unique" mindset would understand what's "silly" about contributing a post regarding a possibility that hasn't been mentioned before (at least I haven't seen it mentioned). Every now and then I pull out an old Windows program, and find that it not only still runs, but runs lightning fast compared to when I was running it on Windows 95. So sue me for thinking this could possibly happen with SONAR. Sure Windows performance can get better and more reliable, but ultimately if Windows stops supporting a programming library that Sonar needs to function it will break, unless you have a backup solution or you able to freeze updates. It's that simple. On the other hand, you prefer to restate that which has been said numerous times before. Carry on. Now we all know why you are really posting here, you want the flock to follow you to Studio ONE - the next target you are aiming for. Of course you do. I am posting here because I still use SONAR, and enjoy helping people get the most out of the program. Educate yourself - click on my "Recent Posts." I guess you didn't see my post a couple days ago about a cool trick with the Console Emulator. And if my hidden agenda in posting was to get people using Studio One, then it would make no sense to write a post offering a scintilla of hope that SONAR might carry on for a lot longer than people might think. As to my "next" target, had you paid attention to what I've been saying in this forum for years, you'd realize that as mentioned numerous times I have been using, and continue to use, both Studio One and Live, and have since they were on version 1. Surely you can understand why someone who's been using Studio One for years would be interested in getting up to speed on the latest version. You may even be aware there are some major MIDI improvements rolling out over the next couple years that other sequencer manufacturers will support. I don't think it would be surprising that someone who makes a living from making music would want to become expert in a DAW that will accommodate these changes, and that includes other people on this forum. Some of them will choose Studio One, some won't. So what? People are going to choose the program they like based on...surprise...what they like. I've advised people in this forum and elsewhere to download all the demos to find out which program suits them the best. I've also mentioned there are some programs that will have absolutely essential features for some people, and some programs that will lack absolutely essential features for some people, and to take those factors into consideration. I guess you missed all those kinds of comments, as well as the other ones concerning the strong points of Cubase, Mixcraft, Pro Tools, and various other DAWs. But believe whatever you want to believe. It makes no difference in the grand scheme of things and if it makes you happy, go for it.
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sharke
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 05:12:16
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☄ Helpfulby CakeAlexSHere 2018/01/04 05:13:39
Anderton
Every now and then I pull out an old Windows program, and find that it not only still runs, but runs lightning fast compared to when I was running it on Windows 95. So sue me for thinking this could possibly happen with SONAR.
To be fair though, the processor you have now is many times faster than the one you were no doubt running Windows 95 on. That's gotta account for most of the speed increase.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Anderton
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 05:18:15
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☄ Helpfulby gothic.angel 2018/01/05 10:26:29
sharke
Anderton
Every now and then I pull out an old Windows program, and find that it not only still runs, but runs lightning fast compared to when I was running it on Windows 95. So sue me for thinking this could possibly happen with SONAR.
To be fair though, the processor you have now is many times faster than the one you were no doubt running Windows 95 on. That's gotta account for most of the speed increase.
I guess I wasn't clear. The point was that the Windows 95 program not only still runs under Windows 10 (I don't have any machines that run Windows 95!), but was a whole lot faster as opposed to being "broken" by running on the newer OS.
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 05:24:58
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Craig I already stated that it's likely to get better because windows will get better, and as Shark has rightfully said improved hardware has a lot to do with it.
I already told you the reason why Sonar would break is programming libraries it may access would no longer be supported by windows. Let's hope that does not happen for a long time or at all. Backing up and turning on delayed updates will help people I hope.
The only reason why your post is silly is because you want to turn this into an either/or scenario, when these two scenarios aren't even related. That's it.
Anyway let's hear some more about you..
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GLG
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 08:42:56
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☄ Helpfulby DrLumen 2018/01/04 09:47:11
Your a troll mate. Go play in your sand pit!
Sonar Platinum / Win 7 64bit / Kingston Hyper 1600 16GB / System Drive Kingston SH100S3120G 128GB SSD / Gigabyte Z68X-UD3H-B3 / i72600 3.4Ghz / RME Fireface UC
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Anderton
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 09:47:05
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☄ Helpfulby CakeAlexSHere 2018/01/04 12:52:07
CakeAlexSHere
The only reason why your post is silly is because you want to turn this into an either/or scenario
I had no idea that was what I wanted! Gee, thanks for telling me what I want, as well as what I think and what I meant. Your info should be helpful for those who can't think for themselves...or can't read.
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GreenwoodStudios
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 10:49:08
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I’m not sure who’s trolling whom nor am I interested in picking sides. I do appreciate anyone spending time here and their views in the interest of overcoming everyone’s concern(s) about the future.
Clearly there was/is drama with Cakewalk develop and support staff vs the executive folks which could account for some of what happened. ‘We’ know that from these forums and what’s been posted on Reddit.
Sadly this will probably not be resolved at any point BUT to the scores of end users it is of little interest other than to gossip about it. I’ve known serveral Cakewalk people in real life, all cool folks. I’ve read Craig Anderton’s stuff over the years too ~ never met him, I don’t dislike him or devalue his opinions because of ‘whatever was’ in this debate of Gibson’s Cakewalk meltdown.
My goal is only to gain knowledge here while the forum still exists. I am not going to buy (as some have or claim to) several other DAWs. I am not going to jump too fast because everyone says it needs to handled fast. Why is that?
I shifted from ProTools to Sonar over ten years ago for a few reasons which I’ll spare detailing out here but in a nutshell it was the right move as Cakewalk WITH Intel worked (I think) hand in hand nicely to bring ‘us’ from 32 bit to 64 bit.
Everyone on here to a degree seems to love Sonar yet this forum is getting a bit Facebookish with the bickering whether it’s about a poll of who’s moving where or the back and forth digs in this thread. Might I suggest that everyone chill it a bit? It’s not helpful or healthy to continue it.
There’s an old saying in the world of the big rock show: “Today’s openers are tomorrow’s headliners” so it best to be nice because sooner or later you’re not at #1, you’re sliding back down from the top and it’s a bumpy ride if the road you paved going up was not smooth. It’s a small world this music business, you never know whom you winding up sitting next to on your next trip on a plane, entrance into the control room or the board room...
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pwalpwal
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 11:13:13
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Anderton
sharke
Anderton
Every now and then I pull out an old Windows program, and find that it not only still runs, but runs lightning fast compared to when I was running it on Windows 95. So sue me for thinking this could possibly happen with SONAR.
To be fair though, the processor you have now is many times faster than the one you were no doubt running Windows 95 on. That's gotta account for most of the speed increase.
I guess I wasn't clear. The point was that the Windows 95 program not only still runs under Windows 10 (I don't have any machines that run Windows 95!), but was a whole lot faster as opposed to being "broken" by running on the newer OS.
the newer windows versions still include the old APIs used by the win95 stuff, which are stable and pretty much unchanging... newer "modern" software tends to rely on a hodge-podge of 3rd party bits and bobs (e.g., CJLibrary.dll used by sonar for ui controls), as well as the ever changing .net platform... so there are waaaaay more variables and dependencies at play with modern software than ancient win95 stuff... i'd expect that within a year or so the last sonar will no longer run because of some os or .net update, whereas older versions (pre-x series) will still run... i expect that it will be similar to the "thread init timing" bug that broke stuff in late 2016, but it won't get fixed... or some .net update breaks the codejock stuff... you know? and some of the older win95 games run so fast on modern win that they're unplayable! it's sad to see the end of cakewalk, but that's business  /fwiw
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pwalpwal
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 11:28:55
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dammit, my long considered reply just disappeared into nowhere... but to summarise - you can't compare old win95-age software to modern software (especially without naming some!) due to the huge number of dependencies, and 3rd party libraries used, that just didn't exist ~25 years ago... sonar will be killed by a .net update, or a windows update, or a .net update that kills one of its 3rd party libraries ( CJLibrary.dll for example)... similar to the " thread init timing" bug from late 2016, or blank plugin guis from the wrong open-gl version, etc etc, only this time it won't get fixed i do expect pre-x-series sonar to last longer than the more recent versions as it is not so dependent on such a moving foundation... sad to see the end of cakewalk, for sure, but that's the world of business /fwiw
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 11:49:12
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CakeAlexSHere
.....Craig I already stated that it's likely to get better because windows will get better, and as Shark has rightfully said improved hardware has a lot to do with it.....
You're on the wrong tracks, CASH. Deliberately misunderstanding (or pretending to misunderstand?) and provoking. Of course there is a change, too, that you really don't understand...
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 12:50:23
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^ ^ Deliberately editing a quote so my actual point was completely removed.
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 13:03:23
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pwalpwal
dammit, my long considered reply just disappeared into nowhere... but to summarise - you can't compare old win95-age software to modern software (especially without naming some!) due to the huge number of dependencies, and 3rd party libraries used, that just didn't exist ~25 years ago... sonar will be killed by a .net update, or a windows update, or a .net update that kills one of its 3rd party libraries (CJLibrary.dll for example)... similar to the "thread init timing" bug from late 2016, or blank plugin guis from the wrong open-gl version, etc etc, only this time it won't get fixed i do expect pre-x-series sonar to last longer than the more recent versions as it is not so dependent on such a moving foundation... sad to see the end of cakewalk, for sure, but that's the world of business /fwiw
Exactly. Windows performance and stability improvements won't override this either (as seems to be implied from the OP).
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kzmaier
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 13:25:44
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 13:32:39
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kzmaier
Nothing wrong with being optimistic!!! Long live Sonar!!!
Absolutely, that much is true. But I'd backup first.
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msmcleod
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 13:47:57
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kzmaier
Nothing wrong with being optimistic!!! Long live Sonar!!!
Shoot ... just saw this...
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/3/16846784/microsoft-processor-bug-windows-10-fix
Looking for wood...
Intel have a diagnostic program to check whether your PC is affected or not. Turns out ALL of my PC's have this vulnerability, including some over 10 years old. There's absolutely no evidence so far that anyone has actually started exploiting this issue yet though. Hopefully any OS patch that might slow down Windows will be optional.
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Something I Hadn't Considered About SONAR's Future
2018/01/04 13:57:33
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msmcleod
so far that Hopefully any OS patch that might slow down Windows will be optional.
It's a major security issue so it won't be. Expect 5-30% slow down. Only way to remove this is either to delay updates (you have my tip of the week) or go offline.
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