vladasyn
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Something has to be done about Delete Track function
The frustrating part is that when I need to delete one track, I never know what ELSE will get deleted. Just now it deleted 7 minutes guitar track which I was able to get back because I catch it on time and could "Undo" delete. What happens is that I am thinking I am deleting Selected track, but often other tracks have blue light on them which makes them also disappear. Some time I want to delete one SELECTED track and it would say, "Delete 3 tracks?" I would say NO and go look for what ever else was selected. But this time it said, "Delete track?"- it definitely did NOT say "Delete 2 tracks?", I know because I paid attention to it. So I said Yes and it deleted a MIDI track, but then the guitar track disappeared. This is just so wrong! This was guitar track that was recorded by sessional guitar player and I had to pay for it. I can not afford it to be randomly deleted and then have to ask him to come back and learn the song again. All these little square blue lights are a mass. I can not think of occasion when I would need to use them. To me if I select track by clicking on the track and making it active, it should be the only one track that gets to be deleted with no surprises. The guitar track was the last track I was working with before I wanted to delete MIDI track and some how the blue light was still on. Why is blue light not getting undone when I switch to another active track? There should be only one active track at the time, and if more than one track must be activated, it should have some more complicated key combination, something like Shift+Click. Delete 3 tracks? What 3 tracks? I have 60 to 70 tracks arrangements. I can not constantly go up and down looking for other things that got selected for unknown reason. I don't see how I can possibly select 3 tracks without being aware of it.
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stratman70
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/01 23:24:12
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Just my experience, but.........I have "never" had this happen. As soon as select a track, all others are deselected. Unless of course I am holding down a modifier key, like control on a PC. I do delete tracks very often. Never any issues. I do not group tracks. Or anything like that. Hopefully others will have an answer for you. Also, I am not doubting you, just saying my experience in 20+ years of cakewalk|Sonar....I have never had tracks stay selected unless I wanted them to.
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Unknowen
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/01 23:26:52
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hello, I don't really understand about your tracks being deleted but I do get a loss of data. You should always back up your projects. whenever I record a major element like a guitar track or a drum track that I paid for I save as project_name_Guitar_A1. or A2 and so on... you need to find a naming convention that works for you. But the point is that when you record something you save that file as a new name and then Save it as a CWB file. Then you end up with multiple files for each project so you can go back to any stage of recording if you lose or delete something. You can also drag any wave or clip file into the browser file area then its right there if you have deleted it... get in the habit of hitting save as well :) make sure you have it backed up in another project as well. :) peace!
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mudgel
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 00:15:03
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Go to the backup of your session players recording.
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vladasyn
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 00:19:26
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Stratman, there is ACTIVE track- the track that glows blue (or orange if you have dark theme) in the box where you type the track name. That is active track. But then there is Selected track, which is NOT getting unchecked every time you check other track. You can have 1, 3, 5, 10, all tracks selected. If you working on track 25, it gets the blue square light in the corner On. When you switch on another track (ACTIVATE), the track 25 stays selected even if you working on track 28. So if you want to delete track 28, track 25 gets deleted with it. PassiveDrift, I usually have more than one project and some time I open a wrong project and mix it just to realize it was older project, but that is another story. Like right now I am in final mixing stage of this 7 minutes song and I am missing a BASS guitar part at the end of the song- about 16 measures. I can not explain it because we recorded whole song- why would we leave 16 measures at the end not recorded? And now it is not there. I don't know if the same issue would apply to partial wave clips, but most likely the part got selected and deleted when something else was deleted. I just opened older project and it is there, so I was able to copy and paste the clip in to the final mix project. But it likely got deleted today or last night and I don't have any idea how. I remember deleting one MIDI track today which resulted in deleting guitar track with it. We need the blue lights to go off when another track is active and only select more than one track at a time by holding SHIFT or other key.
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tenfoot
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 00:48:19
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Hey Vladsyn. The select/delete behavior seems to be consistent for me. Here's how I see it: 1. Whichever Track number glows is always selected. If I hit delete, that is where the deletion will happen. It I click on a clip in a different track, the track selection moves automatically. 2. If I change tracks by clicking anywhere in the Track name pane other than its track number, or use the up/down arrows or a control surface to make another track active (I may wish to make another midi track active to play a synth for example), I am only changing the active track. The track selection does not move. (This would seem to me to be the only way you could think sonar was deleting the wrong track, but it seems to me this is more user error than unintended behaviour. Maybe I am just used to its quirky ways:  ) Try as I may I cannot make Sonar misquote the number of tracks it is going to delete, or delete anywhere but on the active track/s, and that is always indicated by the glowing track selection number/s. In short, to select a track click on it's track number (or control click for multipes). Any deletion ALWAYS happens on the selected track/s and that is ALWAYS indicated by the glowing track number.
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vladasyn
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 01:21:25
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That is because you only clicking on the track number. I try not to click on the track number to avoid it turn blue. There are two ways to make track active- click on the track number turns little blue square blue. Click anywhere else and it turns Track Name box light blue- this is different from square box. Yes, you can delete 2 tracks- if you have one track selected by clicking on Number of the track and then click on another track to make track name active- then 2 tracks would get deleted. In older Sonar versions, the selected track was also turning different color (light gray)- this was very helpful to know for sure what track is selected. Now the only thing changes is the track name background color. Now if you go in to the end of a song and clip on one part of the track that is split from other parts, it lights up as selected and the track number blue square lights up. Now if you click on another track, it will become active (track name background turns blue), but previous track and selected part at the end of the song stays highlighted. If it is 5 minutes in to the song and I am at the beginning of the song- I can not see that something is highlighted. Which places at risk of deletion. I don't know when the blue squares on track number was added to Sonar. I have to check older Sonar releases. I only care about track name background turning blue- this is old Sonar way to select track. This is what I am used to. Being obligated to always click on track number is inconvenient because it is very small. I like to click on anything BUT the track number, because often if you click wrong way, all tracks (all 60 of them) get selected.
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Vastman
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 02:10:39
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I agree with strat... Never had an issue with delete... It always says how many tracks are being deleted... Been using sonar since 4 or 5... After with tenfeet too.
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SquireBum
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 02:43:32
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☄ Helpfulby morganfm71 2016/11/02 03:22:12
@vladasyn, Use the Shift-Ctrl-A keyboard shortcut to Deselect All before clicking the Active track that you want to delete. This should prevent deleting any tracks that may have been Selected and are out of view. Like others have responded, I could not force SONAR to report an incorrect number of tracks to delete. Every time I tested SONAR, the Selected track(s) and the Active track were included in the total. Hope this helps, -- Ron
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morganfm71
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 03:25:24
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I have been using Deselect All for many years because I've had extra tracks get deleted in the past.
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tenfoot
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 06:43:59
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vladasyn I don't know when the blue squares on track number was added to Sonar. I have to check older Sonar releases. I only care about track name background turning blue- this is old Sonar way to select track. This is what I am used to. Being obligated to always click on track number is inconvenient because it is very small. I like to click on anything BUT the track number, because often if you click wrong way, all tracks (all 60 of them) get selected.
I understand how you feel - it is always difficult to adjust when behaviors change. Often I find though, once I get used to new ways of doing things I find advantages and wonder how I did things the old way! FWIW if you avoid clicking on track numbers as you say, you will certainly have dfficulty as that is the best way to ensure that a track is selected. If you single click on a track number only it is selected. If you double click will all tracks will be selected. Best of luck!
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chuckebaby
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 07:04:53
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its all about focus. you may have focus on a certain track, but have selected another. focus and selection are 2 different animals. once you figure this out, you wont have this problem ever again. but like Squirebum mentioned, you can always click "Shift-Ctrl-A" to deselect all, then simply drag to select or cntl select multiple tracks to make your selections.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 07:19:57
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I always, habitually do a ctrl + shift + a before I do ANYTHING involving copy, cut, paste, delete etc Consequently, I've never lost a single thing whilst editing.
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bitflipper
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 09:46:08
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/11/02 14:15:50
I'll admit it: I, too, have accidentally deleted tracks in the past. At least one of those times, I didn't notice the mistake before saving the project. As a consequence, I am very, very careful when I delete a track. Although this is rightfully chalked up to user error, safeguarding against it would be trivially easy. All it would take is a verification dialog that listed the tracks about to be deleted. It would, of course, be optional for those who are annoyed by "are you sure?" prompts. De-selecting everything first is the easiest preventative. But as a software developer I don't like to rely on what users can do to protect themselves. Calling it a "training issue" is a last resort. I look at what kinds of mistakes they are committing most often and see if there's anything I can do to help them out. In my software, there is always a verification dialog and the default is "Cancel". You have to intentionally click "Yes" to complete the deletion. I don't stop there; the data is also written to an undelete log, and there is a utility that can find and retrieve that deleted data, months or years later if necessary. Since it's a multi-user system we also track which user did the deed, so that they (not me) will be berated by their bosses and co-workers.
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Paul G
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 09:47:45
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vladasyn ...., but then the guitar track disappeared. This is just so wrong! This was guitar track that was recorded by sessional guitar player and I had to pay for it. I can not afford it to be randomly deleted and then have to ask him to come back and learn the song again.
As I'm sure you know, when you delete a track in Sonar, you have not lost the audio. It still exists in your 'Audio Folder' AWA wherever you originally imported it from. HTH
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57Gregy
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 09:54:37
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I assume you mean 'delete the clips in a track'? I just right-click the clip then hit the Delete key or select delete from the right-click menu.
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BobF
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 09:58:08
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"Disconnected" Focus vs Selected has bitten me more than once. There are times where I find it incredibly frustrating.
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Anderton
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 09:58:47
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/11/02 14:16:20
Bristol_Jonesey I always, habitually do a ctrl + shift + a before I do ANYTHING involving copy, cut, paste, delete etc Consequently, I've never lost a single thing whilst editing.
In a similar vein, before recording I always check the Record button in the Control Bar and if it is lit, I click on it to clear everything before I select the track I want to use for recording.
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sharke
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 10:50:33
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+100 for shift + ctrl + A. This is such an essential shortcut to learn. Deleting a track is a serious business which should always be done with care. Doesn't matter what app you're using, "delete" will always delete the current selection and so it's essential that you check what that selection is before clicking OK.
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Beepster
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 11:40:40
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Bristol_Jonesey I always, habitually do a ctrl + shift + a before I do ANYTHING involving copy, cut, paste, delete etc Consequently, I've never lost a single thing whilst editing.
Yes. THIS^^^^ Ctrl + Alt + Shift should be absolutely ingrained into your workflow and muscle memory. Even when I am about to perform a function where it does not matter if multiple tracks/items/whatever are selected I still do it... EVERY... TIME. I even do it AFTER I've completed my move just so nothing is selected as I do other stuff JUST IN CASE. It goes like this... 1) I'm about to do something that involves selecting 1 or more tracks/events. 2) I hit Ctrl + Shift + A to clear all selections in the project. Sometimes I'll even do it twice to make absolutely sure nothing is selected. 3) I will make my selections then DOUBLE CHECK the selections so ONLY the desired selections are made. note: sometimes I find when selecting a single item it will select other items. I think do to a double click being registered or something extending the selection. 4) Once I have confirmed ONLY the items I want selected are selected do I make my move. I double check to make sure what I wanted happened and nothing else was affected (by either playing back and/or giving the GUI a quick visual scan to see if anything is out of place) 5) I'll hit Ctrl + Shift + A again to clear the selection so as I move to other areas of the project and continue working those selected tracks/items don't get inadvertantly affected. All of this happens VERY quickly because I just beat it into my brain looong ago to be ultra vigilant about my selection(s) status (I have created some VERY heinous problems for myself in the past due to unwanted selections). It's second nature now. Certainly not ALL of that is necessary every time BUT what it does is create a procedural "redundancy" whereby if I happen to forget to do one or multiple items in that procedure the chances of me having an unwanted selection are vastly reduced. Essentially the little bit of extra time I spend constantly doing that (might add 1 second to each move I make at most) I potentially save myself minutes or even hours of time trying to figure how to fix a screwup. It's the same reason my project folders are FILLED with dated and properly named "Save As" versions. I don't "Save As" after every move of course but after I've completed a series of moves and the task I set out to do is accomplished (eg: I record a bunch of guitar takes, "Save As 1". I edit/comp/flatten the takes, "Save As 2". Also in BETWEEN those "Save As" actions I use the regular "Save" function in case of a Sonar crash. That way instead of losing everything backward to my last "Save As" I MIGHT be able to recover the project up until my last "Save" action. Also remember that if you "seemingly" lose audio files from your project you may be able to retreive them from the project's "Audio" folder. If you have the "Per Project Audio Folder" option enabled then it'll be in the sub folder Sonar created for the project (simply called "Audio"). NOTE: The default setting is to use a "Global" audio folder which lumps ALL recorded audio from all projects into one folder. That SUCKS (and you'll see ONE of the reasons why momentarily) so any newdudes/dudettes reading this change that IMMEDIATELY. They may have even made PPF the default now but if not they really should. It's a confusing and semi obscure setting/concept for beginners and I do not see ANY positive benefit of having a "Global" audio folder. Maybe it made things easier to delete when hard drive space was limited and expensive. Anyway... if you lost an audio file look in that folder. They are just raw waves (or whatever format you chose Sonar to record to). They (IIRC) are named after the track they were recorded into with take numbers. HOWEVER I find the easiest way to retrieve those files (because there can be ALOT of them) is to sort the folder by "Date Created". If I remember the general date when I recorded the missing part I just scroll down and peruse the file names for that date(s). You can even listen to the files to make sure they are the one you want. Then just import the wav back into your project (hopefully into its original track and at it's original position... which is a good reason to ALWAYS have "Snap" enabled to at least something like 1/4 beat before positioning the "Now Time" before recording ANYTHING. It makes it MUCH easier to sync up the waves to the original project in these cases... if you don't have snap on then you have to totally line it up by ear which is time consuming). Here's the thing though... I'm not entirely sure what Sonar's protocall is for saving audio files. I think under ideal conditions it is this... 1) You record a bunch of stuff. Those recordings are stored on your hardrive but "temporarily" 2) If you hit Save or Save As then those files get put into and remain in the project (or global) audio folder even after you close the program. 3) If you close the project WITHOUT saving then the recordings do not get saved anywhere on the system. So the "temporary" files that were created get deleted automagically when you close Sonar. Now let's say you DELETE a track or clip in the project AFTER reopening the project (AFTER doing a Save or Save As in your previous session). Since the audio files were created AND saved and already present in the audio folder I think the action of deleting that Track/Clip in the new session (and afterward saving) the audio file(s) will remain in the Audio folder. They are just no longer referenced by the project but still exist on your hard drive (in the audio folder). So (if that's true and I'm pretty sure it is) then you can restore those files manually as I described above. Keep in mind though that if you then did a Save As of that project to a new location (like an external drive) with the "Copy Audio With Project" (or whatever it is called) then THAT version of the project (the one where you deleted the tracks and didn't restore the audio somehow) would NOT drag the deleted audio from the original project's audio folder with it because the new project does not "reference" those audio clips anymore. Alright... so I totally veered off topic there (kind of) but the way Sonar (and most audio programs) handle audio files was a TOTAL mind twister for me as a n00b so maybe my blatherings about this stuff will help others muscle through a little better and be able to recover from these types of seemingly "worst case scenarios". Also I haven't been up here for a while. Been working hard on some toonage stuff. Hope everyone is good and well. Cheers.
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icontakt
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 11:41:25
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☄ Helpfulby SquireBum 2016/11/02 13:02:39
vladasyn Some time I want to delete one SELECTED track and it would say, "Delete 3 tracks?" I would say NO and go look for what ever else was selected. But this time it said, "Delete track?"- it definitely did NOT say "Delete 2 tracks?", I know because I paid attention to it. So I said Yes and it deleted a MIDI track, but then the guitar track disappeared.
Maybe this is what you did? I think the second right-click menu that I opened in the empty space below the tracks should also say "Delete 3 Tracks," instead of just "Delete Track." I too have mistakenly deleted unintended tracks in the past because of this.
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mettelus
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 12:24:46
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☄ Helpfulby robert_e_bone 2016/11/02 12:29:34
Didn't read this entire thread, but like it or not, get into the habit of making selection, then doing operations... always.
This applies to any program, so is a habit all users need to adopt, or they will suffer from it.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 12:46:41
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Great vid, icontakt. And yes, vladasyn, this has happened to me too in the past and is a pet peeve of mine. The CTRL+SHIFT+A shortcut is a good way to avoid it but I agree that I would welcome additional "ergonomics" on Sonar's part here. For me, the issue is that when I'm right-clicking something, I'm assuming I'm selecting it. Why would I right-click it otherwise? Sonar doesn't agree - right-clicking opens the context menu but it has no bearing on the selection you may or may not have already made.
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SquireBum
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 13:00:25
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/11/02 14:17:09
icontakt I think the second right-click menu that I opened in the empty space below the tracks should also say "Delete 3 Tracks," instead of just "Delete Track." I too have mistakenly deleted unintended tracks in the past because of this.
@icontakt, Great catch on the behavior of the Track context menu!  Agree 100% that the "empty space" Track context menu should display the track count or provide a secondary confirmation dialog. -- Ron
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Beepster
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 13:09:47
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There used to be a serious "Selection" bug in X1/X2 and I think it may still exist to a lesser extent but I don't run into it anymore. Essentially you just could not rely on accurate selections at ALL. I studied this behavior and posted threads about back in the day but it was a nightmare. The solution was to simply use the "Clip Lock (Data/Pos)" on EVERYTHING I wasn't currently editing. PITA but it got me through. Anyone experiencing this issue regularly should get into the habit of locking all clips (both Data and Pos paramaters) unless they plan on editing them. I really haven't had to worry about that crap for years now (X3 seemed to squash that "bug").
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stratman70
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 13:47:23
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Well the ONLY way I can make this delete error is if I select or activate a track and then right click in the project and INSERT track(s). In this case yes the track I selected first is "still selected" so If I delete one they are both deleted. But I never would do that. But I guess that"s just because of the way I work. For 20+ years. I never have run into a delete track issue. Just lucky I guess?
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stratman70
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 13:54:04
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mettelus Didn't read this entire thread, but like it or not, get into the habit of making selection, then doing operations... always.
This applies to any program, so is a habit all users need to adopt, or they will suffer from it.
Guess that is what I have been doing for all these years.
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brundlefly
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 14:07:48
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vladasyn In older Sonar versions, the selected track was also turning different color (light gray)- this was very helpful to know for sure what track is selected. Now the only thing changes is the track name background color.
Use the Mercury theme (or any modification of it that doesn't change track header background), and uncheck "Show strip colors" in Preferences > Customization > Colors. I don't know when the blue squares on track number was added to Sonar. I have to check older Sonar releases. I only care about track name background turning blue- this is old Sonar way to select track. This is what I am used to.
Track number selection and highlighting have been around since the early days of Cakewalk before SONAR or even Pro Audio. The highlight was originally yellow, and the function was called "Sticky Selection" because it allowed you to leave a track(s) selected while moving focus to another track. So far as I know, nothing has changed significantly in the way this works for years. In any case, it is definitely possible to have the context menu show 'Delete Track' when one track is selected, and another is focused, even when using the context menu associated with one of the tracks, not just when right-clicking the empty area as Tak demonstrated. This issue goes back a while. One way: - Ctrl+Shift+A to de-select all. - Select a clip in the currently focused track (track number highlights). - Click the header of another track to move focus there without changing selection. - Right-click in the header of either the focused or selected track. - Choose 'Delete Track', and they'll both be gone. +1 to always using Ctrl+Shift+A before selecting anything to be deleted.
post edited by brundlefly - 2016/11/02 14:46:36
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stratman70
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 14:11:40
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@Tak T Never mind, nice video.........
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soens
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Re: Something has to be done about Delete Track function
2016/11/02 18:23:53
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+1 for Save As New Copy then close and reopen previous one after realizing a mistake was made. someone did mention that, right? But as was mentioned, deleting tracks does not delete the audio still residing in the Audio folder. Find it and reinsert it in the project.
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