SilkTone
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Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
I know this issue has been in Sonar for a long time, but it is getting annoying now.
Basically, whenever I move the Now time to a new position, I always have to press the SB multiple times to get everything to play back properly. More often than not, most tracks won't play back at all the 1st time I press the SB. Or they would play back out of sync or even play the wrong MIDI notes.
This problem is also very noticeable when working with Dim Solo. In that case I don't even have to move the Now time. Just stopping after some amount of playback and the pressing the SB once will cause almost all other non-soloed tracks to not play back at all, just the soloed track. Then I need to press the SB multiple times to get everything to play back properly.
Not sure if it is related, but sometimes doing something simple like muting a completely unrelated track during playback will briefly interrupt MIDI for all other tracks. Or simply highlighting a MIDI track during playback will interrupt other unrelated MDI tracks.
Maybe also related... Pressing solo on a track with Dim Solo enabled will briefly interrupt MIDI data to all other tracks even though they should continue to play, just at a lower level. Why does the MIDI data get interrupted at all?
Do other people see similar issues?
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gustabo
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/18 16:16:44
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I've never seen this issue...
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dke
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/18 16:39:59
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Yeah I've had it happen. Usually for me the midi drums (doesn't matter which VSTi) will start out of sync, but I've also had audio tracks not play or out of sync as well requiring stopping and starting play. It is annoying.
Dan
Sonar Platinum ( x64), Windows 10 x64, HP Envy i5 2.9GHZ, 8GB, Tascam 4x4 USB, BX5a Monitors.
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sharke
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/18 17:20:15
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I've had issues like this before. Sometimes I'll hit play and certain MIDI tracks aren't playing until I stop and start again. Every now and then, I will unsolo something (audio, MIDI whatever) and it will send some seemingly random MIDI notes to a completely unrelated synth track. I've never been able to pin it down to the point where I could file a bug report, however.
Oh and I almost forgot...sometimes I'll have odd things happen with Geist's song sequencer when I toggle Sonar's loop mode on or off. It makes Geist think we're further along on the timeline and it will start playing patterns that aren't supposed to play until many bars later. Again, I cannot work out a recipe to file a bug report.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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SilkTone
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/18 17:38:24
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OK so it is not just me.
BTW I think this might be related to (or made worse by) having VSTis sending MIDI data out. Unfortunately I've had great difficulty in the past getting CW to look into bugs that require any 3rd party plugin to reproduce.
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Anderton
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/18 18:20:11
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No wonder I like Sonar, I don't have these things happen to me...the closest I've come is where a MIDI instrument didn't play back when I started playback, but then if I just put the now time before where the part started, then it would play back. I sure a lot of times it was retaining a controller 7 = 0 but I'm also sure some times it was not. But this is very rare in my setup.
What happens if instead of using the space bar you click play on the transport? Do you have to click on it multiple times? If not, then it seems the problem would like between the communication with the QWERTY keyboard and Sonar. What happens if you connect the keyboard to PS/2 instead of USB? Is the keyboard wireless? Etc.
If you have to hit the transport playback button multiple times, then that's something else altogether but it would be useful to isolate the conditions under which this happens with more detail.
However, the "out of sync/some tracks play some don't" issue implies it's more than just about starting and stopping playback. I have a feeling the sync issue is where to look for problems and fixing that will solve the space bar problem, rather than the other way around.
Try increasing the latency and see what happens...long shot, but I think it's time to collect data on what doesn't solve the problem to get a better idea of what might. Bear in mind that if I haven't experienced a problem, then I'm pretty much reduced to guessing at what it might be.
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dke
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/18 18:59:53
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Keyboard or clicking Transport doesn't matter. Has nothing to do with latency, my latency is set to 1024 when I'm mixing. Stopping and restarting playback is the only thing I've found to correct it. I've also had the midi instrument not play, I don't have to move the now time, stopping & restarting playback fixes that as well.
Dan
Sonar Platinum ( x64), Windows 10 x64, HP Envy i5 2.9GHZ, 8GB, Tascam 4x4 USB, BX5a Monitors.
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reginaldStjohn
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/18 19:03:37
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I have had this happen and when I close and reopen Sonar it usually starts working better. It is almost like its not able to respond to the keyboard presses in a timely manner. I also see sometimes when the midi plays but is not in synch with the audio. I push stop and then play and it works the second time usually.
AMD Phenom II x6, 8 GB Ram, 2 Internal SATA III HD Windows 10 Presonus Studio Live 16.0.2 Interface/Mixer Cakewalk Sonar Platinum Line6 Helix Guitar Processor Custom Made (El Bandito) Telecaster LTD ESP EC-1000 PRS El Torrero SE
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John
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/18 19:58:53
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I have had delays in the past when pressing play on my MCU but I can't say I had what is being reported here happen. The delays have gone away since X3 came out.
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Splat 
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/18 20:27:24
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Sounds like audio interface drivers/firmware to me. Perhaps midi buffers. Maybe a plugin disturbing the force...
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SilkTone
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/18 21:20:57
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Craig, it isn't that the transport doesn't start/stop playing when pressing SB. It does every time. It is that not all tracks start playing back correctly when playback starts. Very often I need to start/stop a few times before all tracks will play back properly. I have changed audio buffer size and MIDI buffer size many times but it doesn't seem to make any difference. sharke
...
Every now and then, I will unsolo something (audio, MIDI whatever) and it will send some seemingly random MIDI notes to a completely unrelated synth track. I've never been able to pin it down to the point where I could file a bug report, however. Yes this happens too. Sometimes everything will happily play back, and I select a MIDI track so I can start playing into it from my MIDI keyboard, and then it is as if there is a brief moment where there is crosstalk between many tracks. Very loud since all VSTs suddenly respond to MIDI data from other tracks. This stuff is so difficult to document which is why is isn't easy to file reports on them. In general it just seems that MIDI is very glitchy. For instance one would expect soloing/unsoloing a track while Dim Solo is enabled wouldn't interrupt MIDI data in general, yet it does.
post edited by SilkTone - 2014/10/19 09:43:37
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Geoffrey
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/18 22:40:11
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Similar problem: when in speed comp mode with the dim solo button on, sometimes one of the tracks (bass) won't play back. If I play it back exactly two times outside of speed comping (i.e. hitting the space bar), the bass comes back, and then I can go into speed comping mode and here the bass. Until the next time I stop and restart the playback, in which case the bass disappears again. Strange.
Win7 64 bit, I&-3770, two hard drives, 16 gigs ram, MOTO 24i with PCI 424 card.
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sharke
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/18 23:37:01
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I also find that MIDI tracks sometimes go out of sync when you insert or remove a plugin during playback, especially with ProChannel modules. This can also sometimes affect time-synced effects - if I have a synced tremolo effect on a guitar for example, inserting or deleting an effect will throw it out of time. It's never a show stopper because it's easy enough to stop and start playback, but still these things should not be happening.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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John
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/19 11:02:55
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That could be due to PDC. Sonar will have to calculate the new delay for all the plugins and sync up everything. That could take time.
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Anderton
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/19 11:12:40
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John
That could be due to PDC. Sonar will have to calculate the new delay for all the plugins and sync up everything. That could take time.
Especially if some plug-ins have lookahead. No way you can put those in without having to re-calculate.
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jimkleban
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/19 11:16:57
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Happens to me often (large projects with lots of VSTi).... usually doing a SAVE fixes it for me for awhile. Don't ask me, it just does. (I think SAVE might clear out some memory, thus improving keyboard response time - QWERTY keyboard, not MIDI controller).
This has been happening to me randomly for years now.
Jim
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Anderton
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/19 11:27:56
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jkleban
Happens to me often (large projects with lots of VSTi).... usually doing a SAVE fixes it for me for awhile. Don't ask me, it just does. (I think SAVE might clear out some memory, thus improving keyboard response time - QWERTY keyboard, not MIDI controller).
This has been happening to me randomly for years now.
Jim
The "lots of VSTi/memory" connection sounds interesting. If these are VSTi devices like Kontakt, then a lot of stuff could be loaded into RAM. There can be issues with memory not being released properly. I noticed that dke, whose avatar seems the most unhappy about this  , has a system with 8.1 and only 4GB of RAM which is kind of like putting your computer on a starvation diet. However, some of the sigs indicate people with 8 or 32GB having this problem, so it may be a combination of factors. As mentioned, I don't have this problem but if saving fixes it, that would explain why. I save often just as a matter of "computer habit." Whenever a project starts teetering, I'll close the project and re-open. That also seems to quell disturbances in the force.
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SilkTone
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/19 13:01:47
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As for another datapoint... Right after opening Sonar and opening a song, I can be almost guaranteed that the very first time I start playback, the transport will move but nothing will play back. I always have to stop/start to get everything to play back.
I think this might be related to the issues we had for a long time with MIDI crosstalk etc. Noel fixed bugs in that regard not too long ago but it seems MIDI data is still appearing randomly in the wrong places so maybe there is still some stuff broken in the way MIDI buffers are handled. Just speculating of course.
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dke
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/19 13:04:10
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Anderton
jkleban
Happens to me often (large projects with lots of VSTi).... usually doing a SAVE fixes it for me for awhile. Don't ask me, it just does. (I think SAVE might clear out some memory, thus improving keyboard response time - QWERTY keyboard, not MIDI controller).
This has been happening to me randomly for years now.
Jim
The "lots of VSTi/memory" connection sounds interesting. If these are VSTi devices like Kontakt, then a lot of stuff could be loaded into RAM. There can be issues with memory not being released properly. I noticed that dke, whose avatar seems the most unhappy about this , has a system with 8.1 and only 4GB of RAM which is kind of like putting your computer on a starvation diet. However, some of the sigs indicate people with 8 or 32GB having this problem, so it may be a combination of factors.
As mentioned, I don't have this problem but if saving fixes it, that would explain why. I save often just as a matter of "computer habit."
Whenever a project starts teetering, I'll close the project and re-open. That also seems to quell disturbances in the force.
The projects I typically do are less than 20 tracks with 1 or 2 VSTi's. I usually have over 50% memory in reserve and Win 8.1 actually uses less than Win7 on my system. The only thing that used to stretch my systems memory was Melodyne when it Sonar/Melodyne had a problem eating ram and not releasing it. Since that was fixed in Sonar X2 memory has never been a problem. I don't know what causes it, and don't really care, I simply stop and restart the project and it's fine after that. I was merely confirming I've seen the OP's problem. Dan
Sonar Platinum ( x64), Windows 10 x64, HP Envy i5 2.9GHZ, 8GB, Tascam 4x4 USB, BX5a Monitors.
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johnnyV
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/19 13:24:34
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I have never ever had a sync issue either with Sonar since I got rid of my Creative Audigy card. That was the cause of this sort of behavior for me. It would be nice if the OP listed their specs..
I have a feeling this is system/ driver related.
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Anderton
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/19 13:36:46
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dke
The projects I typically do are less than 20 tracks with 1 or 2 VSTi's. I usually have over 50% memory in reserve and Win 8.1 actually uses less than Win7 on my system.
Wow, I'd like to know how you get away with that! I have a laptop with 4GB of RAM and according to the Windows performance monitor, it uses 50% of its memory just to wake up in the morning, make coffee, and run an instance of Chrome. I've disabled just about all the background processes. If I open Sonar and one instance of Dim Pro, it hits 65%.
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dke
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/19 14:12:03
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Anderton
dke
The projects I typically do are less than 20 tracks with 1 or 2 VSTi's. I usually have over 50% memory in reserve and Win 8.1 actually uses less than Win7 on my system.
Wow, I'd like to know how you get away with that! I have a laptop with 4GB of RAM and according to the Windows performance monitor, it uses 50% of its memory just to wake up in the morning, make coffee, and run an instance of Chrome. I've disabled just about all the background processes. If I open Sonar and one instance of Dim Pro, it hits 65%.
Before loading a project in Sonar my system is at 28% memory usage. After loading the current project I'm working on that uses 19 tracks (+ 3 unused archived tracks) with one being a VSTi I'm at 53% which includes IE running. 4 instances of GR 5, 1 AD2, Ozone 4, some reverbs and prochannel. I've rarely gotten up around 75% or so when using Melodyne. I've done very little tweaking on my system and it works very well. I've been waiting for my system to take a dump so I can buy a new one, but it just keeps on going, going, going... going on 8 years now. :) Dan
Sonar Platinum ( x64), Windows 10 x64, HP Envy i5 2.9GHZ, 8GB, Tascam 4x4 USB, BX5a Monitors.
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Anderton
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/19 14:53:39
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Guess it's time to dump the Vista-64 laptop, but it just keeps going, going, going...
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SilkTone
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/19 21:19:01
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johnnyV
I have never ever had a sync issue either with Sonar since I got rid of my Creative Audigy card. That was the cause of this sort of behavior for me. It would be nice if the OP listed their specs..
I have a feeling this is system/ driver related. I've had this same issue across at least my last 3 systems, each having completely different specs and different audio interfaces, so I honestly don't think this is related to system or drivers. Why would a driver cause Sonar to play some tracks properly but not others? All of this is mixed inside Sonar before any driver ever sees the data. BTW this issue seems to be related to how complex the project is. Simple projects don't seem to reproduce this issue. The more MIDI tracks you have (especially VSTis sending MIDI data out), the more likely it will reproduce. Another data point: I froze a vocal track, and simply muting/unmuting this frozen vocal track while playing back will interrupt MIDI playback on pretty much all other tracks. Doesn't make sense but it happens every time.
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sharke
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/19 22:42:54
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SilkTone
BTW this issue seems to be related to how complex the project is. Simple projects don't seem to reproduce this issue. The more MIDI tracks you have (especially VSTis sending MIDI data out), the more likely it will reproduce.
This seems to be true for me in a lot of ways, in that the larger and more complex synth-based projects get, the more oddities they seem to develop. I've had to abandon more than one project and reconstruct it from scratch because all sorts of weird things started happening.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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SilkTone
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2014/10/25 11:28:01
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I'm trying to do a video capture to demonstrate the issue, however I'm having problems. Maybe someone can give some tips on how to do this. I installed CamStudio, so I'm trying to capture the video and audio but that is failing. For one thing, it doesn't seem to work with ASIO (yes, I know. However I found it gives me the best results). So I tried all other driver modes with no luck. I also sometimes get a popup with this error when I start recording: WaveoutGetSelectControl() failed. Any advice on what worked well for others?
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SilkTone
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2015/01/18 11:56:01
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Ok this is a pretty old thread now but since I finally got around to making the promised video of the problem, and some people didn't understand the problem or didn't believe it, here is the video: http://youtu.be/M5av9ppI4vw It was confirmed that the new SONAR still has this same problem in this thread. I must say I'm baffled why such basic functionality is still broken in SONAR year after year. SONAR has its roots in "Cakewalk", which was a MIDI sequencer that didn't even have any audio capability at the time, so one would think its MIDI implementation would be rock solid at this point. I guess the next course of action would be to wait until I can get SONAR Platinum and make a new video showing the issue, and use that to file a new problem report.
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rainmaker1011
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2015/01/20 02:13:20
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I tried your project in X3d demo version, routed all midi tracks to Cakewalk sound center and I can confirm the bug. Sometimes it was completr silence I got after cycling Solo button but usually I got only quick "tss" sound every time the Now time marker was passing starts of midi notes... i remeber having this issue in X1 as well...
post edited by rainmaker1011 - 2015/01/20 02:24:43
Best Regards, Marek ------------------------ DAW: Sonar Platinum 64bit PE//C2D@3,0GHz//6GB 800MHz RAM//LCD 24'' Samsung //Focusrite Scarlett 8i6//Windows 10 Professional 64bit//Toontrack SD 2.4 x64//NI Scarbee Vintage Keys//NI Alicia's Keys//112db Redline Reverb//Voxengo plugins//EWQL Composer Cloud
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Greeny
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2015/01/20 02:21:04
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EDIT: Brain fart, one should learn to read properly.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Somewhat annoying bug - Need to press spacebar multiple times to get proper playback
2015/01/20 03:58:21
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Anderton
dke
The projects I typically do are less than 20 tracks with 1 or 2 VSTi's. I usually have over 50% memory in reserve and Win 8.1 actually uses less than Win7 on my system.
Wow, I'd like to know how you get away with that! I have a laptop with 4GB of RAM and according to the Windows performance monitor, it uses 50% of its memory just to wake up in the morning, make coffee, and run an instance of Chrome. I've disabled just about all the background processes. If I open Sonar and one instance of Dim Pro, it hits 65%.
My Internet/travel laptop I'm typing from now is using 1.01Gb with Firefox open. There are some services relating to random stuff running too, scanner, drawing tablet etc. I have 2gb in this. This is a Windows 7 starter machine. I don't recall it being much more in my old Vista 32bit 3GB laptop either. Are you sure something is not quite right there?
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