Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer

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patAppleson
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2018/12/25 18:47:04 (permalink)

Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer

I've been using Sonar since ver 2.0, so I'm very familiar with it.  I've been running Sonar 7.0.2 since it was released.  As my XP audio computer is still running SCSI drives, I thought it was a good time to trade up. (grin).  I've got a HP Z420 Xeon 6 Core cpu with 16gigs of RAM and a SSD.  It's a Win 10 Pro OS.  I tried to run X2 and got "error clip was padded with silence" for about half of the tracks.  So I wiped it and installed Sonar 7.0.2.  I used compatibility mode and start as Administrator.  I copied the .cwb & .cwp files over to the new machine, open them up, I still get the same error.  Does anybody have any ideas?  I'm beginning to think it might be something in the .ini file.
Here's some background:  Although we have some Midi equipment, I use Sonar for Audio Broadcast Production, Voice, music beds & Sfx. No midi, no plugins of any kind. We have outboard equipment, reverbs, compressors/limiters/eventide, aphex, etc.  All are real products no pictures of a 1176 on the screen. (grin)  So, the problem I'm having isn't a plug in.  I've tried both 32 & 64 bit versions.  No success.  As a workaround, I'm thinking about adding another HD and using Win XP sp3.  When the machine boots, it will ask you what drive to boot from: Win 10 Pro or XP.  I hope this works.  We have over 7 years of weekly three hour radio shows that we have to re-edit.  And unless someone can tell me of another DAW program that will open Sonar .cwb files, we're in big trouble.  We've never had a problem, ever with Sonar products.
Best Regards
Pat, KN4KWC
- www.appleson.com
 
#1

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    scook
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    Re: Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer 2018/12/25 19:14:16 (permalink)
    Cwp files do not contain audio. The audio for project files is either in the global audio folder or per-project audio folders.
     
    Since the bundles are failing, see if they will open on the old machine. If they do, unpack them there then come up with a plan to copy the data to the new machine.
     
    This can be done either across a network or portable drive. Make sure to copy the contents of the global audio folder, all cwp files and any per-project audio folders. The default location for per-project audio folders is the same folder and the project file. Project files that use the default location for per-project audio folders store the location of the audio folder as a relative path so moving the projects do not rely on having the projects on the same drive or path as the original location. Project that use the global audio folder simply read the location from preferences.
     
    Going forward consider abandoning bundles in favor of per-project audio folders. The later is a much more robust method for managing projects. Bundles though convenient for sharing projects are not a suitable for archiving projects.
    #2
    patAppleson
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    Re: Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer 2018/12/26 15:38:53 (permalink)
    Mr. Scook,
    Thanks for getting back to me so fast.
    I'll take your advice under advisement.  I've always been told to save all the stuff, in a .cwb file.  And, my problem just started when using Win10.  Everything appears in Win 10 except one or two tracks with plenty of clips silent.
    I'll check it out.
    Best Regards
    Pat
     
    #3
    SonicExplorer
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    Re: Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer 2018/12/27 03:58:08 (permalink)
    scook
     
    Going forward consider abandoning bundles in favor of per-project audio folders. The later is a much more robust method for managing projects. Bundles though convenient for sharing projects are not a suitable for archiving projects.




    Uh...what?    scook can you please elaborate on this statement?  Maybe I'm missing something but I've always found it a straightforward process to rebuild a system and then copy the global audio folder over, or restore a bundle, as a rather simple process.  To me, at least on the surface, it seems using per-project audio folders is a LESS robust method. 
     
    Sonic

    Windows XP 32 bit, Sonar 5 PE, RME Fireface 400
    #4
    scook
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    Re: Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer 2018/12/27 05:23:52 (permalink)
    Copying a global audio folder and project files is an OK if unwieldy method to reproduce a SONAR environment.
     
    Bundles have a history of unrecoverable failures. Search this forum for comfirmation. Fortunately they were rendered redundant when SONAR 2.0 was introduced 2002.
     
    The bundle option is available for three reasons: backward compatibility, as a convenient method for sharing projects and a repair strategy for certain issues. Backward compatibility is a problem as it appears to make the format a suitable for archiving. Unfortunately this has been repeatedly demonstrated not to be the case.
     
    A folder containing a project and its associated per-project audio folder is complete and portable. Unlike bundles, they do not need to be unpacked from one big riff file to reconstitute the project.
     
    Want to make the smallest possible project using per-project audio: apply trimming to all audio in the project, then use "save as" with "Copy all audio with project" enabled.
     
    One last comment about per-project audio folders, Cakewalk in the later versions of SONAR finally removed the option to disable per-project audio folders. One must make an extraordinary effort to avoid using per-project audio folders in post X-Series SONAR and its successor, Cakewalk By BandLab.
    #5
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer 2018/12/27 13:57:44 (permalink)
    I have NEVER used bundles for the exact reasons stated above.
     
    If a bundle becomes corrupt or unreadable you have lost the entire project FOREVER (excluding backups)
     
    If a cwp becomes corrupt, you have various strategies available for recovery/rebuilding which you don't get with bundles.

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #6
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer 2018/12/28 00:49:43 (permalink)
    The worst nightmare in my 16 years of using Sonar was way back in the day's before I understood the file management system.. I ended up loosing a lot of audio. That was called the Global audio folder which if used becomes the biggest tangled mess you can  imagine. 
     
    I soon developed my own Per Project way of keeping files which eventually became the default I guess. I have never lost an audio file since. The beauty of keeping everything for each project in a dedicated folder cannot be praised enough by me. 
     
    In each folder I not only have the CWP and the Audio folder, but I also keep a MIDI copy, lyrics and sometimes alternate versions.  
    These folders are easy to back up by drag and drop to other hard drives. The CWP always open with only missing VST's sometimes being an issue if I'm using one of my extra machines. The audio is always there. And I've done this for years now and used dozens of different computer systems. All work each and every time. 
     
    I also now store midi only projects as CWP on MS One Drive. I just opened on of those at work on a work laptop which I installed CbB to a few months ago. 
    I've posted a few of these One Drive CWP on my web site ( see my signature ) I wanted to test them to see what others would experience. 
    They download very fast and they open in CbB instantly with the usual missing VST list. Took less then a minute to "replace" the VST with the stock ones I had on this machine. Point is. It ALWAYS works.  A point about the song I loaded is this is based on a midi file I made in 1987. 
    And the new version of Cakewalk is the only version worth owning now unless you are very, very stubborn person. 
    It's not a good idea to run old software on the new OS. CbB is optimised for W10. Sonar 7 is optimized for XP ( or W98?) 
    X2 was a terrible version and not stable. 

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #7
    patAppleson
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    Re: Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer 2018/12/28 02:02:21 (permalink)
    Hi Guys,
    A very interesting string of comments! Okay, because my favorite Sonar 7.0.2 won't play nice on Win 10, I tried it on Win 7.  Same problem, silent clips.  So I loaded it on two XP machines I still have kicking around, not my main XP machine that I was trying to replace.  The two XP machines run it just great.  So, if I have a hardware failure, I've got a couple of backups.
     
    Now, I would still like to update my Sonar package to run on Win 10. The simplest thing to me was look at Cakewalk/Band Lab.  I'd like to purchase "Artist"??? and keep going.  But, this Band Lab outfit, apparently wants you to do it THEIR WAY on a cell phone.  It looks like paint by numbers for Idiots. Is it possible to make a one time purchase from them?  Or does anyone have a copy of the latest Sonar that will run on Win 10 that was produced by Gibson/Roland/12 Tone, before the went belly up?  I think that would be the easiest for me.
     
    Back to Sonar 7 on XP.  Not to rub it in, but, like the instructions said, you can Save As a CWB Bundle and everything will be saved.  I've saved it like that along with a CWP file.  I've never had a problem.  I've saved over 350 three hour Radio Shows over my network to a Win 7 set of RAID-1 Mirrored Drives.  Then transfer them back to my main Sonar machine with no problems in Eight years.  Why do I do this?  I have a syndicated oldies show
    "Pat's Country Classics".  Of coarse because it's an Oldies show, I can save two hours per show, setting up Sonar.
    The music doesn't get old. (grin)  So, I'll pull show, say show #214 from three years ago, strip off the voice over and cut a new v/o.  It's easy and I can do the complete three hour show in a little over one hour.  I can even swap 20 minute segments (3 segments per hour) and put them in different order.  Or add some different music.
     
    So from now on, I'll also transfer the Audio files along with the CWB/CWP files.  Up to this point I was wiping them.
    SOMEBODY, must be able to fix this glitch on Win 10.  I'm beginning to think it's a timing issue. (something is going too fast) The .ini file or something.  The people that would probably know is the former tech support guys at Cakewalk, before the sellout to Roland.  They probably live in what, the Boston area?  Gotta find 'em.
    Also, I've tried using Hyper V and then MS Virtual Machine.  Big pain!!  I got it to work, but the screen size and the way it handled was clunky/ugly. Plus it still dropped silent clips.
    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
    Happy New Year!!
    pat KN4KWC
    Member SBE, etc.
    www.appleson.com
     
     
    #8
    scook
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    Re: Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer 2018/12/28 03:41:50 (permalink)
    Don't confuse the BandLab DAW with Cakewalk by BandLab. Both are BandLab products but the later is a DAW based on the unreleased SONAR Platinum 2017-11. CbB runs best on 64bit Win10. It does not run on a cell phone. Compare the last SONAR help with CbB help and you will notice they are very similar. CbB includes a very basic set of plug-ins but should run anything installed by any 64bit SONAR.
     
    After creating a BandLab account with the same email as your Cakewalk Account use the BandLab Assistant instructions for installing CbB.
     
    The rest has been discussed at length on this forum. Do whatever makes you happy. But this
    patAppleson
    Not to rub it in, but, like the instructions said, you can Save As a CWB Bundle and everything will be saved.  I've saved it like that along with a CWP file.  I've never had a problem.

    does not square with
    patAppleson
     I tried to run X2 and got "error clip was padded with silence" for about half of the tracks.  So I wiped it and installed Sonar 7.0.2.  I used compatibility mode and start as Administrator.  I copied the .cwb & .cwp files over to the new machine, open them up, I still get the same error.

    There is no point in saving a CWP without saving the individual audio clips. A CWB is the CWP with the audio appended to it. When a CWB cannot be unpacked, it may be possible to open the file in an audio editor and snip out the audio. More often than not though a corrupted CWB is a total loss.
     
     
    #9
    Euthymia
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    Re: Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer 2018/12/28 04:49:18 (permalink)
    patAppleson
    ....unless someone can tell me of another DAW program that will open Sonar .cwb files, we're in big trouble.



    No problem. A company called BandLab bought SONAR after Gibson dropped it and have released a new version of it as simply "Cakewalk (by BandLab)." It's based on the same code as SONAR, but is faster and more stable and has more features.
     
    Good news is it's been released as freeware, so your upgrade to "SONAR Artist" is completely free!
     
    It has fewer bundled add-ons, though, so hang on to your old copy of SONAR. You will be able to use some of the add-ons with the new Cakewalk (aka "CbB").
     
    As mentioned earlier, don't confuse it with other BandLab products. They have quite a portfolio and make guitars and cases and audio interfaces and other stuff in addition to Cakewalk and their iOS and Android and web-based DAW's.

    -Erik
    ___________
    3.4 GHz i7-3770, 8G RAM, Win 7 64-bit
    2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20bas, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
    Cakewalk by BandLab, Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5
    Warning: if you tell me my issue can be remedied by buying more RAM, an SSD, or a Waves plug-in, I will troll you pitiilessly
    #10
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer 2018/12/28 05:19:48 (permalink)
    Believe me I know what it is like to cling to the past. But as said here already. You best course of action is to take the time to download and install Cakewalks latest version which is free. As said it is 100% going to work for you the way you want it to work. Forget what you did 12 years ago, everything has changed and it has changed for the better. 
     
    Open those old files on your beloved XP machines and then do this.
    Perform a "save as" for each project to and external drive or ? and make sure you check the "COPY AUDIO with project" which I think existed even back then. . 

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #11
    patAppleson
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    Re: Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer 2018/12/29 02:29:40 (permalink)
    Hi Guys,
    Okay, from what is said above, I've got a solution by using CbB.  I'll give it a try.  And I really appreciate all the input. And, I'm really pleased to have something that will decode my old CWB files on Win 10 with the latest Sonar.  I'll report back to you.
    Happy New Year!
    Pat KN4KWC - www.appleson.com
    #12
    patAppleson
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    Re: Sonar 7 Missing audio on new computer 2018/12/29 22:48:41 (permalink)
    I just got my Sonar by CbB up on a win10 mochine.  It's fabulous.  I owe it all to the guys on this list.  Somewhere last week, I missed the button to take me to
    the correct BandLab page.  Never saw it.  So this is really all I wanted in the first place.  Nice up grade and it pulls up everything from years ago or last week, just perfectly.
    Happy New Year!
    pat KN4KWC - www.appleson.com
    #13
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