Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem.

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twaddle
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2009/02/20 08:12:55 (permalink)

Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem.

Does anyone have Native Instruments B4 and Sonar 8?
Is it running ok for you?
I have a song that uses the B4 that plays just fine in Sonar 7 but makes horrible
crackling noise in Sonar 8.02 Producer.
I thought it was the B4 at first until I opened the same song in Sonar 7.
When I get the crackling noise it seems to kill the audio.
This is really confusing. It's not a big issue as I can just work on the song in
Sonar 7 but I was just wondering if anyone else has heard of this.
Cheers
Steve

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#1

19 Replies Related Threads

    Mike Fisher
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 08:27:26 (permalink)
    I am using NI B4 with SONAR 8.0.2 with no problem. I've noticed I could not just set my audio setup settings in version 8 just like I did in version 7. You have to experiment a little. I am using B4 on 2 different systems...one with an old GINA 20 audio interface and one with an RME 9652 audio interface. Once I got everything set right, I've been able to run at low latency just like with version 7 and before.

    Also, this is being done on 2.4 and 2.53 GHz single core systems.
    #2
    twaddle
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 09:51:48 (permalink)
    John, what settings did you change exactly? I'm assuming you mean latency.
    I've adjusted mine from 4 to 16 in the ASIO panel and though it seems to have made
    a slight difference there are still a number of loud cracks & pops.
    1 is more than enough. This must be a bug in Sonar 8 as it plays fine at whatever latency
    in Sonar 4, 5 & 7.
    Cheers
    Steve

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    #3
    gordonrussell76
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 09:58:01 (permalink)
    N

    THe logic that something works in one version and the other, is not QED that is a bug.

    Sonar 8 has many improvements, however to take advantage of them you may have to reconfigure your soundcard or Sonar configuration settings.

    Every new version you should experiment with your settings until you have what works best.

    It may even be undoing some configuration compromises you originally made and have forgotten about.

    Don't get me wrong it may be a bug, and I am not having a go, but lazy logic always frustrates me.

    G
    #4
    twaddle
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 10:48:28 (permalink)
    Who said I was lazy?
    I've tried all my other vsti's and dx synths and they all work fine.
    I've opened the same project (song) up in my 3 other versions of Sonar and it plays
    as it should do in all those other versions. I've adjusted my latency from 4 to 20mil with little improvement.
    I've been through the B4's internal settings but found nothing there that was amiss.
    I think it's bit harsh to say that my logic is lazy when I've spent nearly 4 hours trying to figure out what's going on.
    I have never had anything like this in the 10 years that I've been using a DAW.
    Steve

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    #5
    Mike Fisher
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 10:52:51 (permalink)
    Good word, Gordon. I'm not sure who "John" is that 'twaddle' is referring to, but your advice is correct. I could type out my exact settings for 'twaddle', but those would not be applicable to his setup. There are too many variables. The settings between my two systems are not the same. Each user has to find out what is best for their setup.

    For what it's worth, version 8.* of SONAR's audio engine handles things differently than previous versions as I've experienced. It has been good for most users, but others have run into problems which I'm sure are being addressed in the upcoming update.
    #6
    twaddle
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 10:58:33 (permalink)
    Sorry Mike, I was referring to you only I misread your name.
    I didn't ask for your exact settings, I just asked which ones other than latency you had changed.
    Ie, buffers, multi threading, that kind of thing.
    Obviously our machines are different but I don't think that should mean the same settings can't apply
    from time to time?
    Steve

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    #7
    Mike Fisher
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 10:59:11 (permalink)
    Have you tried a different driver mode yet? I see you are using ASIO, but do you get the same results with WDM?
    #8
    gtgarner
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 11:19:56 (permalink)
    I had the same problem.

    For some reason (that I have never understood) I had to re-install B4 AFTER I installed Sonar 8. I uninstalled B4, Loaded Sonar 8 and then re-installed B4 and everything started working again. I'm not sure why, but I a musician.....I didn't have time to investigate.

    Did you try recording with B4 USING Sonar8? Just re-record the track in S8. (I think like a musician, not a computer nerd).



    I'm assuming that you have the latest version of B4............
    #9
    Mike Fisher
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 11:20:43 (permalink)
    twaddle...here are 2 screen captures of my settings in the Options->Audio setup of SONAR





    As you know, your audio interface drivers, your audio driver mode, aud.ini, I/O buffer, settings, etc. all affect performance.

    I am still experiencing the audio randomly dropping out and forcing a machine reboot to restore it (with my old GINA-20 interface); however, I am not having any trouble running soft synths including the B4 software.

    #10
    twaddle
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 11:27:31 (permalink)
    Good call Mike
    I did think about that but didn't actually do it.
    It does seem to work ok in WDM but there is still an issue that maybe cakewalk (or native instruments?)
    might want to look into.
    Perhaps the word bug is a little strong but something is definitely not right when a synth
    works in all previous versions but not a new one. Ok, I know B4 is quite long in the tooth these days
    and perhaps it's something up with native instruments but every other synth I have works fine under
    both WDM and ASIO.

    So are you running B4 under ASIO or WDM Mike?

    Cheers
    Steve

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    #11
    gtgarner
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 11:28:37 (permalink)
    Do you have any songs from S7 that work in S8 that don't use B4?


    The reason that I'm asking is because IF you have other tracks in your S7 song that aren't B4 and you can listen to those without the noise, then it's not your sound card....nor sound settings.

    Then you have a problem with B4....NOT Sonar.



    I run tons of Native Instruments Soft Synths in S8. No problems at all. B4 has been great.

    What version of B4 are you running?
    post edited by gtgarner - 2009/02/20 11:35:52
    #12
    twaddle
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 11:36:26 (permalink)
    Looking at your settings Mike there are only 2 minor differences.
    One being that your 64 bit engine is enabled (I don't have 64 bit)
    and your buffers are at 256 (mine were at 126)
    I still got the same problem after adjusting my buffers.
    This is really weird.
    I'm not keen on re-installing both sonar and B4 as gtgarner suggested
    but if it works it works.
    Steve

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    #13
    gtgarner
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 11:46:25 (permalink)
    You don't have to remove sonar, just re-install it. Just run your setup disk again. All of your previous pluggins and settings will remain.
    #14
    twaddle
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 11:51:19 (permalink)
    Bloody hell!!
    I just opened up the track again and this time opened up B4 and changed it's preset and now
    all seems ok. Trouble is that was the preset I wanted that works best with the song. ; - (

    Now I've gone through some more presets it seems it makes the noise on some and not others.
    The one that was selected for the song is called, "Super Continental" but now it seems almost half of them
    give the same problem.

    gtgarner, I'm using B4 v 2.0.0.007. I've checked for updates but there don't seem to be any.
    Could one of you try different presets to see if you get any pops and cracks?
    Maybe a reinstall would help but I've already done it once.
    Steve

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    #15
    gtgarner
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 11:58:05 (permalink)
    Are you talking about all of the dirty "overdriven" sounds?

    Super Continental is a dirty organ.

    Go to the Organ Tab and Turn down the driver on the Tube Amplifier.

    Audition the sound on the Preset Tab and see how it sounds.

    ______________

    I believe you are talking about something different than what I'm thinking because you said the sound actually gets so bad that it stops stops right?
    post edited by gtgarner - 2009/02/20 12:05:51
    #16
    Mike Fisher
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 12:05:59 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: twaddle

    So are you running B4 under ASIO or WDM Mike?


    Steve,

    On my GINA interface machine I'm running WDM and on my RME interface machine I'm running ASIO.

    My GINA system seems to run fine soft-synth-wise on either driver mode, but my audio driver drop-out is an issue with ASIO on that system...not so much so with WDM.

    Both systems are dated (5-6 year old systems) so I'm amazed at what I can still do with them. Jim Roseberry
    ( www.studiocat.com ) helped me upgrade my GINA system (memory) and he builty my RME system for me. Both systems are using ASUS motherboards. Jim gives advice on this forum often, but he also has a fee-based consulting service if you're really stuck on a problem you can't resolve.
    #17
    dantarbill
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/20 12:40:24 (permalink)
    I ran into a problem with B4 in S8. I'm not sure if it's related though. It was a CPU spike that would cause a dropout...but only when there was NO audio (either just sitting there idling...or during playback when there was an empty part of the project that was producing no audio.) It would manifest when the leslie rotor was engaged. It turned out to be some sort of floating point denormal bug in Native Instrument's code. When the floating point unit is asked to represent a floating point zero, it shifts into another mode to represent a really really accurate zero...which ends up getting the processor's panties in a wad.

    There's a really interesting and tacky way to get around this. There's a plugin who's only function is to add a very tiny bit of noise to the audio stream to keep it from being zero and triggering the denormal bug. (See www.digitalfishphones.com "normalizer".)

    Dan Tarbill
    #18
    thechrisl
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/02/28 14:19:36 (permalink)
    Just so the OP doesn't get discouraged I am having the exact same problem with B4 2.0.0.7 in S8 (ASIO, XP, RME Multiface II).

    It seems to be fine when loaded into Sonar. But do some playing, change presets around and POP! I have noticed with the standalone app that when changing presets there is sometimes a second or so of silence before it will play. Whatever happens during that time seems to be causing the problem in S8 but it doesn't pop in the standalone app.

    My plan is to setup a preset I like, save it and then open in Sonar and go directly to it. Hopefully that works... Hopefully this upcoming patch will address whatever the issue is (usually Sonar patches don't fix any problems for me though).

    chrisL
    #19
    thechrisl
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    RE: Sonar 8 & Native Instruments B4 problem. 2009/03/10 22:18:52 (permalink)
    FWIW my workaround did work....


    chrisL AKA Threadkiller
    #20
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