garyq400
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Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
Can anyone out there help me. Although having studio equipment many years ago including midi, the new systems are all new to me and the endless dropdown lists and settings daunting. I have been using the V-700C & 700R for over a year now using a Sweetwater Rack XT for processing power and a PCR-800 controller. I have just invested in Native Instruments Machine & Komplete 8 Ultimate. I have been inputing mic, guitar and vst's with no problem, even the Komplete 8 bundle works fine. My problem is I cannot get the Machine to work with the rest of my set-up. It will work fine in stand alone mode and I can play sound through my pc. I can also set up the machine to play sound through the monitor of the 700C but that's as far as I get. I can insert the Maschine GUI into Sonar but pressing play has no effect on either the GUI or the Maschine hardware. All other functions seem to work fine on both and I can drag and drop audio and midi with no problem. I have tried reading the manuals but the setup info seems basic and not much use for someone like me who has very little knowledge when it comes to routing audio, midi, drivers etc. A lot of the online info seems to be aimed at X1. I just want to be able to use Maschine as a stand-alone (which I can) and also route audio and/or midi from the machine and record it in Sonar and use the PCR-800 with the Maschine (which I can do in stand-alone) but the more I look at controller/midi/audio settings the more confused I get.  The V Studio firmware (1.31) is up to date as is the Maschine software (1.71). I have tried various combinations of audio drivers and input configs but nothing works I just cannot get any sound into Sonar. If some one can help please let me know and I can give you info on what settings I have available. Maybe someone has had a similar problem. Cheers Gary
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e.Blue
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/04 17:29:33
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When Maschine is inserted into SONAR as a VSTI you can no longer control it using the transport buttons on the Maschine controller. However, it should start, stop & record along with SONAR's transport controls. To use Maschine as a regular MIDI controller in SONAR, hold down [shift] & press the top left button. All of the lights should light up and you can then use it to trigger any sounds in SONAR. From what I've seen there isn't really a simple way to compose into Maschine while it's loaded as a VSTI. I suggest that you use Maschine in standalone mode to create your beats. Then once you have your beats the way you want them, open those standalone projects up in the Maschine VSTI to import the data (MIDI or audio) to your tracks or add SONAR-based instruments. It is fairly easy to move your data from the Maschine software to SONAR's tracks. It's well explained in the Maschine manual. There are also other more complex ways to route individual Maschine outputs into individual SONAR tracks. It's difficult to explain in a forum since I kinda stumbled through figuring out how to set it up as I went along. -e.B
post edited by e.Blue - 2011/10/04 17:31:35
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garyq400
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/06 10:10:27
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Hi e.B thanks for answering the post. My main problems are recording audio and midi data from Maschine into Sonar when maschine is running in stand alone. Using the VST version in Sonar (it will not play from the GUI or Sonar transport). It seem strange that when the GUI is inserted into Sonar the Maschine controller comes alive too and mirrors all the changes on the GUI. It all seems to work, loading programes etc but the play button is just dead. Are you able to talk me through some of my setup options? I'm not sure if some software or drivers are missing. I can route midi from my PCR-800 through the VS700R into Maschine and play that way but am unable to get the midi into Sonar to record. Any input would be a help. Thanks Gary
post edited by garyq400 - 2011/10/06 10:13:11
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e.Blue
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/06 16:05:58
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Like I mentioned once the Maschine VST is inserted you can no longer use it's Play/Stop controls. You'll have to use the controls in SONAR. However, you seem to be saying that even that doesn't work for you, which seems odd. You should be able to trigger Maschine playback using SONAR's transport. It sounds like you may not be adding the Maschine VSTI properly. Be sure that you use the Synth Rack to add Maschine. Do not just insert it into an Effects bin like you would an effect. Once you have added Maschine via the Synth Rack, it should create the necessary tracks for Maschine to function properly. You should then be able to load any of Maschine's projects, click play in SONAR and hear the project playing thru SONAR. In order to import data from Maschine into SONAR you have to use drag-&-drop. Maschine doesn't output it's MIDI data directly to SONAR, it just plays the audio thru the audio track that gets created when the VST is added. You will need to check the Maschine manual for info on how to drag-&-drop the audio into SONAR. I believe there is a way to send MIDI data directly into Maschine, but I have never set it up. -e.B
post edited by e.Blue - 2011/10/06 16:09:06
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garyq400
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/08 09:12:53
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Hi again e.B. Sorry to be a pain but my knowledge is limited. I have tried to insert using the synth rack but the result is the same...pressing play in Sonar, on the Maschine GUI or on the Maschine controller will not start play, even the Sonar transport freezes and it will not work on the V700C either. I have done an uninstall and reloaded the Maschine software but the result is the same the GUI will not play. I have checked the Maschine drivers and my os says they are working properly. I can get midi into Maschine but it doesn't want to come out. I can route audio from all Maschine outputs and can see the inputs when opening the sound tab of my computer so still three problems I'm trying to resolve. Full operation of Maschine GUI Audio from Maschine into Sonar (standalone) Midi from Maschine into Sonar (standalone) I can drag and drop audio & midi with no problem but surely inputting audio and midi into Sonar should be possible?? I have sent a screenshot of my audio settings from Maschine into my pc. I can set the Maschine Driver to WASAPI(Shared Mode) with the Device option of VS-700 or Sound Max Intergrated HD digital audio, or use the ASIO driver setting with device set to VS-700. Either driver when set to VS-700 will output and even the green leds on the front of the 700R will light up either Main L/R, sub L/R or the outputs 1 - 10 so I must be getting audio into the hardware. How do I get it from the VS-700R into Sonar? Hope you can help with this. Cheers GG
post edited by garyq400 - 2011/10/08 09:56:22
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Chambana
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/12 17:41:23
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Hi, I don't own Maschine so I'm going to have to do some guesswork here to try helping. I have had a lot of experience slaving several types of external devices before using MIDI clock. If I understand your problem correctly that is probably where to look. First check Maschine's menus for anything related to (external) MIDI clock slave/sync - Set this to either Auto or External. If there's an option for transmitting MIDI clock out within Maschine, for now - disable it. Next we have to setup Sonar to communicate with it directly (Slave it). So from the pulldown menu, go to Options/MIDI devices and be sure to select the MIDI port for Maschine, again, assuming it has one. If so, that step is important, so that it can be viewed/selected in the next step. Finally, again the pulldown menu, go to Options/Project and select the Sync tab. Select the check box on "Transmit MIDI Start/Continune/Stop Clock", then scroll down and select Maschine's listed MIDI input port. Click OK. Assuming this all applies you should now have perfect sync between Sonar and Maschine. In this configuration, Sonar would be the Master, Maschine would be the slave. When you hit play in Sonar, it should start playing both devices. When you adjust the tempo, it should sync with the other device perfectly. Good luck!!
post edited by Chambana - 2011/10/12 18:15:22
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garyq400
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/13 06:37:31
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Hi Chambana,
Thanks for the info but I think the problem my be more complex.
I have followed your instructions, I set the Maschine to sync to external midi clock, disabled send midi clock.
In Sonar (midi devices) for input I selected Maschine Controller In and in the output selected Maschine Controller Out.
In my Sync tab I selected Transmit MIDI Start/Continue/Stop/Clock.
The next step appears to be different. The selection box in the sync tab says " MIDI Sync Output Ports" and not input as per your instructions and the 3 options in the list are CONSOLE(VS-700): IO MIDI (VS-700): Maschine Controller Out.
Where should I be routing the midi from the output selection of the Maschine?
My output options are: Maschine Controller Out: PCR MIDI OUT: PCR: IO (VS-700): CONSOLE (VS-700): DV-7 (VS-700): FANTOM VS (VS-700): IO MIDI (VS-700): ARX(VS-700).
Input options are: Maschine Controller IN: PCR MIDI IN: PCR: IO (VS-700): CONSOLE (VS-700): DV-7 (VS-700): FANTOM VS (VS-700): IO MIDI (VS-700): ARX(VS-700).
I also have the problem of routing audio from the maschine into Sonar, I'm not sure if my drivers in Maschine & Sonar are set up properly or if they are conflicting with each other.
My options in Sonar are: WDM/KS: WASAPI: ASIO: MME (32 bit).
My options in Maschine are: ASIO (with the device setting VS-700): or WASPI (shared mode) and device options of VS-700 or Sound Max intergrated digital audio. I have tried various combinations but I am just stabbing in the dark. I have looked online but all I get is the VS-700 owners manual with very little info.
I can get audio from Mashine to light up the green leds (MONITOR, DIGITAL OUT 1 & 2 and any of the 10 OUTPUTS) of the VS-700R (I/O), but cannot get it into sonar to record.
What I need is Sonar For Dummies!!
Hope you can help with this.
Thanks
Gary
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Chambana
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/13 14:23:50
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Hello, let's tackle one thing at a time. As for syncing clock you're nearly there. Back in your Sync tab "MIDI Sync Output Ports" is referring to output from Sonar. So under that list select Maschine (assuming it's showing something from step 1) and you should be good to go! Remember this is JUST for syncing the MIDI out from Sonar to MIDI input of Maschine. As for "where to route midi from the output selection of Maschine" are you talking about about configuring within Sonar? Because nearly everything you have listed pertains soley to the V-Studio 700.
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Chambana
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/13 14:32:43
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ok if I were you, here is what I would select as possible MIDI inputs within Sonar "MIDI Devices" - Machine Controller IN, PCR MIDI IN, CONSOLE (VS-700), FANTHOM VS (VS-700) and that's it. As for outputs I would select Maschine Controller OUT, CONSOLE (VS-700), FANTHOM VS (VS-700). Also (slightly off topic) to correctly use the V-Studio 700 as a control surface go to options/control surfaces and select CONSOLE (VS-700) as both input and output. Let me know if we have MIDI licked and we'll move on to audio
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Chambana
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/13 14:38:31
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As for audio, I would highly recommend using ASIO as driver mode. This means only one device can be used (but we'll get to alternative later if needed) Select the input/outputs you're currently using in VS-700 and we'll get to "how to get audio from Maschine" shortly. First I need to know, are there any physical audio outputs on the back of Maschine? Easiest method would be to route those with the appropriate audio cable(s) to the appropriate input(s) on the back of the 700R. My guess would be there is at least a digital connector available. If so, this will all be solved soon!
post edited by Chambana - 2011/10/13 15:28:20
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garyq400
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/16 10:04:54
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Ok thanks, I'll get on to these instructions and get back to you. I have solved the problem of getting Maschine audio into Sonar. I have set the audio output from Maschine to the digital output of the VS-700R. I then just looped a S/PDIF cable back to the DIGITAL 1 input of the 700R but surely I should be able to make a virtual link from Maschine to Sonar. The Maschine doesn't come with a dedicated audio output, the only connections are USB and MIDI in/out. I want to configure Maschine for use in Sonar, yes, but are you saying that I should have some Sonar drivers listed in the input & output sections of MIDI Devices? If so this would answer a load of questions. I have completed the sync setup but nothing seems to be happening. Should the tempo on both be the same only they have different settings. I can record midi into Sonar using my PCR-800 and the get the maschine to play back audio through the monitors but I have to select IO MIDI (VS-700) in the MIDI devices to do this. I still cannot get midi from Maschine to record in Sonar. At least we are making some progress. Thanks.
post edited by garyq400 - 2011/10/16 10:06:50
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Chambana
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/16 13:53:41
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☄ Helpful
garyq400
I want to configure Maschine for use in Sonar, yes, but are you saying that I should have some Sonar drivers listed in the input & output sections of MIDI Devices? If so this would answer a load of questions.
Sonar won't list its own MIDI drivers. Sonar is (only) the host program which drives the MIDI traffic. So, in Sonar's MIDI device list you should definitely see MIDI connection options for your keyboard controller, V-Studio 700 and Maschine. Selecting and routing the correct ones is really important to get right. Remember, you only want to sync MIDI clock in one direction. In this case, Sonar will be the Master and Maschine is the slave. Now that I have a more clear picture of what all is involved, what is probably missing is a physical MIDI connection outside of the box. Grab a MIDI cable and connect the MIDI out of the 700R and connect it to the MIDI in of Machine. Also, be sure to select V-Studio 700 MIDI out as one of your out ports in MIDI devices. Then select "700 MIDI out" in the above example for syncing. Regarding audio, I don't want to complicate things (more/yet) but the only way I know of to list and use more than one ASIO audio device at once is to install a 3rd party program called ASIO4ALL. This is how I can access and make interconnections to/from both V-Studio 100 and 700 at the same time. And, this is my only work around to running my last synth in stereo (Aux input on front of console is indeed mono) as all the other channels are eaten up on the 700. Ok, I admit I have a ton of gear! :) It's a little bit deceptive at first, in that you have to select the supported devices, i/o ports by left clicking the ASIO4ALL icon in the lower right taskbar. But it does work! And if configured correctly, it should allow you to ditch that SPDIF loopback. Good luck, my advice is to break it down into small steps. Get one thing working, then move on to the next. - Dan
post edited by Chambana - 2011/10/16 14:02:13
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garyq400
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/19 04:47:18
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Thanks for that. A few more experiments to perform. Ok, I have set the sync to IO MIDI (VS-700) and bingo the Maschine is now in sync with Sonar. So I now can route midi from the PCR-800 to the Maschine and record via my digital loop back. I can record midi in Sonar from the PCR-800 and play it back through the Maschine. I can control play and sync from Sonar. I just need to route midi from Maschine and record in Sonar. We're nearly there. Thanks again.
post edited by garyq400 - 2011/10/19 10:08:39
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Chambana
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/22 19:29:50
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Regarding your last point - To be able to route MIDI from Maschine will require a second MIDI cable from the MIDI out of Maschine to the MIDI in of the 700R. And adding the port via options as talked about above. However, before you go this route - check first to see if Maschine has a local off or MIDI echo off feature. You'll want to have this feature enabled if you want to trigger from Maschine's MIDI out. Otherwise, you'll have potential MIDI feedback issues, because it'll be passing everything from directly through the unit and thus causing all kinds of problems. Good luck!
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garyq400
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Re:Sonar 8.5 and NI Maschine....Help Please!!!
2011/10/26 11:04:44
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Ok thanks for the help.
I did have the midi leads already installed and I managed to get the midi into Sonar somehow by using the sync setting but before I could note all the settings Sonar crashed and I lost them but I'll try again soon.
I'm converting the garage into a studio so it all has to be boxed back up for a few weeks whilst the building work takes place, but will be back soon.
Cheers.
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