Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other...

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voltrano
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2010/11/13 03:40:39 (permalink)

Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other...

Hi everybody,
 
I'm having a problem like this: Let say I performed a song using the sounds of GW-7 (for example, accordion). The song is finished. A few days later, I want to make some additions with only accordion again to the some sections of my work but I can’t this.
 
Now, I record the track as audio with GW-7 in Sonar using the pre-loaded rhythm and accordion. Then, I open the midi channels as needed, to add some instruments from vsti plugins and can add instruments while listening previously recorded audio channel. There is no problem so far. O.K. But, I can’t hear anything when I want to add some accordion (or sax, piano etc.) additions to my work because, I can't send GW 7's sounds into Sonar as midi files. I hear my work only while I connected my headphones to computer but can't hear any GW 7's sounds, so that accordion too. In this case, I can't add accordion sound to my work. Whereas I want to make some little changes by adding the sounds I wanted on while listening to the earlier work in realtime.
 
How can I this?
 
Many thanks for your interests...
 
 
#1

25 Replies Related Threads

    Shambler
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/13 04:47:02 (permalink)
    Hi voltrano,  I think your problem is that midi files do not contain any audio data.

    Midi only carries information about which keys you are playing, and whether you are using the modulation or pitch bend wheels.

    You need to connect the audio output of your GW-7 to an input on your sound card.

    Check your owners manual, on page 7 there is a picture of the rear of the GW-7.
     
    http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1811358/GW-7_e1.pdf

    Item 5 is the left and right audio outputs, connect these to inputs on your sound card and you should then hear your GW-7 through your PC.

    post edited by Shambler - 2010/11/13 04:48:27

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    #2
    voltrano
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/13 08:52:38 (permalink)
    Hi Shambler, thank you for your interest but my problem is not connection problem with M-Audio Audiophile 2496 PCI soundcard. I can record without any problem audio from GW 7 and midi from any vsti with Sonar. I can save this file to my harddisk and playback perfectly.
    My connection is O.K.
    I want to see (for example, GW 7's "cha cha" rhytm sounds and "brass 2" sound) on "piano roll" such as the notes in midi channel in the Sonar when I performed. I can record my work from GW 7 only as audio into audio channel. I don't want this, because, I'm having problem when I edit the notes and want to some additions from GW 7 to my work . I want to exactly work only with midi channels, to edit the notes on piano roll and to add some little additions with GW 7's sounds smoothly what I wanted while listening to my project in the Sonar. I can't this but it must be a way for solve this problem.
    #3
    bvideo
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/13 09:40:15 (permalink)
    voltrano,
      It is hard for us to tell exactly how you recorded your GW-7. Did you record its audio or its midi? We are guessing. If audio, you are stuck with just the performance you did, except for certain kinds of editing you can do with audio.
      If you recorded the GW-7 midi instead, you can modify your performance by changing the midi note events and other midi performance gestures using Sonar's midi views. In this scenario, Sonar sends the midi events back to the GW-7 so it regenerates the audio each time you play the project, and that audio needs to be mixed with Sonar's vsti audio.
      Shambler gave you information you need. The sounds from  your GW-7 need to be mixed with the sounds from the vsti plugins. You can do this in the box by sending the audio of the GW-7 through your sound card into Sonar.
      With your GW-7 audio output connected and assigned to an audio track input, you can either record the GW-7 into that audio track and then use the audio track to mix with vsti's or, preferably, you can use that audio track with input echo on so that live audio from the GW-7 always mixes with Sonar's audio.

    Bill B.

    #4
    lorneyb2
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/13 14:12:16 (permalink)
    The unfortunate part of a system like your GW-7 dealing with midi is that the only part of what you are playing with the GW-7 accompaniment is that the only data that will be transmitted via midi are the notes you physically played.  None of the fancy stuff gets sent.  (in other words if you are playing a 1 fingered solo part with the background of the boston symphony orchestra on your machine only what your 1 finger is playing (and your left hand chord notes) will get sent via midi.  None of what the orchestra is playing on its own will get transmitted via midi)

    So as bvideo and Shambler have indicated the only options are:
        1. Record the fancy background info via the audio channel.(which is uneditable in Sonar)
        2. Load a VST in Sonar, chose your instrument in it and select an input channel(Omni should likely work) and record a midi track using the GW-7 via its midi output.  Make sure that you have echo on( (((( )  for the track you are recording.          3. You will have to monitor it through your sound card, (not your keyboard) so you can hear both what you are playing and what you have already recorded.  The sound you should hear is from the VST in Sonar.

    I am not famililiar with the GW-7 ( I have a Technics that I think acts pretty much the same) but it likely has an editing function built in that allows you to record and quantize/edit your tracks in it.  What you could do there is perfect your main backup track and record the audio from that and then the supplemental tracks could be done as above via midi.

    #5
    voltrano
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/14 02:17:17 (permalink)
    Many thanks, for your replies but I do not think we understand each other exactly.
    As far as I understand, it's impossible to send pre-loaded rhytm sounds (for example, "cha cha") and solo instrument sound (for example, "brass2") for recording via midi channel from GW 7 to Sonar . I must record these sounds only and only via audio channel and have no another choice. Do I understand correctly?...  If so, this is very bad, because, I want to play and record "brass2" solo instrument (let say, this is my best favourite sound and I don't want to use a vst sound) accompanied by "cha cha" rhythm. Then I want to see the notes on the "piano roll" that I played (rhythm and solo notes together) for editing in Sonar . For this, I must record "brass2" and "cha cha" notes via midi channel not via audio channel. This is the first fundamental issue for me. So that, I can see each note individually and make corrections I wanted. Then I want to some additions via original GW 7's sounds (for example, GW 7's accordion sound the best accordion sound for me, any vst doesn't have like GW 7's accordion sound tone, that means, I will use only and only this sound for addings) while listening my project to my work in Sonar but you say to me "it's imposible". 

    I can see the notes that I played with GW 7 solo "brass2" accompanied by rhythm "cha cha" (drum, bass, piano, guitar, sax etc.) each as the separate midi channels on piano roll in Sonar but can't hear them. I can hear them only when I connected my headphones with GW 7. What would be great, if I could hear these notes in Sonar!...
     
    It's a pity!...
    #6
    lorneyb2
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/14 04:28:15 (permalink)
    Ok.  Maybe what might work now that I have a little better understanding what you are trying to do we may need some more help here but lets give it a go.

    Play your trumpet part etc on the GW-7 and record the midi.   This is the part where I'm not quite sure about but now set the output of this midi track to  the GW-7  to basically play your keyboard remotely via the Sonar track. 

    Now Create a new Audio track and set the input for this track to the audio output of your GW-7 and turn echo on.   That  should now have the Audio from your previously recorded audio tracks plus the audio coming back from the GW-7 all playing through Sonar.  When you have the track edit like you wish then just hit the record button as for the previous audio.

    I have never set up anything this way so maybe someone can jump to indicate if this sounds feasible.
    I don't know what you would have to do to your GW-7 to receive the midi messages from sonar but you may already know what to do there. 
    #7
    lorneyb2
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/15 15:01:00 (permalink)
        Voltrano

        Many thanks, for your reply but I do not think we understand each other exactly.
        As far as I understand, it's impossible to send pre-loaded rhytm sounds (for example, "cha cha") and solo instrument sound (for example, "brass2") for recording via midi channel from GW 7 to Sonar . I must record these sounds only and only via audio channel and have no another choice. Do I understand correctly?...  If so, this is very bad, because, I want to play and record "brass2" solo instrument (let say, this is my best favourite sound and I don't want to use a vst sound) accompanied by "cha cha" rhythm. Then I want to see the notes on the "piano roll" that I played (rhythm and solo notes together) for editing in Sonar . For this, I must record "brass2" and "cha cha" notes via midi channel not via audio channel. This is the first fundamental issue for me. So that, I can see each note individually and make corrections I wanted. Then I want to some additions via original GW 7's sounds (for example, GW 7's accordion sound the best accordion sound for me, any vst doesn't have like GW 7's accordion sound tone, that means, I will use only and only this sound for addings) while listening my project to my work in Sonar but you say to me "it's imposible".
       
        I can see the notes that I played with GW 7 solo "brass2" accompanied by rhythm "cha cha" (drum, bass, piano, guitar, sax etc.) each as the separate midi channels on piano roll in Sonar but can't hear them. I can hear them only when I connected my headphones with GW 7. What would be great, if I could hear these notes in Sonar!...
        
        It's a pity!...


    I took the liberty of posting your PM here in case someone had another idea.

    I just want to make sure you are understanding what I am trying to say.  Have you figured out how to have Sonar play your GW-7?   In other words when you solo the brass track do you have it routed so you can hear it in the GW-7? If not then that is the first thing that we have to solve.



    #8
    voltrano
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/16 15:51:13 (permalink)
    I will prepare a mini video for my questions, soon...
    #9
    voltrano
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 11:55:29 (permalink)
    I uploaded my video. You can play this video VLC video player.

    http://hotfile.com/dl/83185946/a48101f/cakewalk.mp4.html

    Many thanks for your interests.

    #10
    lorneyb2
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 14:55:03 (permalink)
    You need to make another connection to do what you want to do.  You need to plug into the back of the GW-7 with 2 of the 1/4"  patch cables into your M-Audio Audiophile 2496 Audio Inputs.  You will need 2 RCA -  1/4" adapters to do that.

    You will then need to create a new audio track with the input set to M-Audio Audiophile 2496 in 1 and 2.  Turn "echo on"  for that track and you should now have the sound you are hearing in your headphones on the GW-7 coming through Sonar.  If you want to record just 1 track at a time click solo on the Midi track AND the new Audio track.

    Let me know if this seems to make sense to you. 
    #11
    lorneyb2
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 15:32:57 (permalink)
    For the second part of the video with EW strings I would suggest making a change on how you load the synth.  Do not use the Simple Instrument but use the First Synth Audio Output instead.   You could also check Midi Source box if this is to create a new MIDI track.  If you are going to be changing one of you other tracks from the GW-7 for example do not check the Midi Source track box.

    Now in the New midi source track select your GW-7 in the Input box And the Channel you will be receiving on in the Channel box(Omni may work)  Leave the OUTPUT box at the setting it is at(should be to the EW Synth). Select your instrument in EW strings, turn on INPUT ECHO ( (((( ) and now when you play the keyboard there should be activity on the Midi track AND sound coming out of your PC via the Audio track.  When you are done editing the Midi to how you want it then Freeze the track (the start button *) .  That will then print the Audio wave to the Audio output track. 

    The advantage of doing it this way is that it is easier to keep what is the Midi and what is the Audio straight.  Your system is confusing enough without adding more confusion. LOL
    post edited by lorneyb2 - 2010/11/17 15:42:15
    #12
    lorneyb2
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 15:44:59 (permalink)
    For the third part of the video question I think once you solve the 2 problems above and understand what is happening it will become obvious how to solve the problem of editing the midi AND then recording the Audio from the edited midi track.  (when you are happy with the edited midi result THEN hit the record on the AUDIO track)
    #13
    voltrano
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 16:04:27 (permalink)
    Thanks for your quick reply. I have already this connection. I want to send cable photos but how I can do it, I dont know. I want to be sure the connection and cables are allright or not. 

    "You will then need to create a new audio track with the input set to M-Audio Audiophile 2496 in 1 and 2.  Turn "echo on"  for that track and you should now have the sound you are hearing in your headphones on the GW-7 coming through Sonar.  If you want to record just 1 track at a time click solo on the Midi track AND the new Audio track. "

     
    Could you explain with a tutorial video or still images please?
     This is a complex problem for me...
    #14
    lorneyb2
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 16:15:56 (permalink)
    To create a new Audio track
        from main menu INSERT - AUDIO TRACK
        in the new Audio track created first box(input) select M-Audio Audiophile 2496 Stereo LIN in(Or MIC in) 1(or 12 left) it may appear slightly different but that should give you a rough idea anyways)
        In the output box it should be directed to you M-Audio Audiophile 2496 LineOut 12 left
        Turn on Echo On ( )))) ) and now when you play the GW-7 there should be sound coming through Sonar.
    #15
    voltrano
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 16:40:47 (permalink)
    I created a new Audio track.

    for (I) input options are:
         None
         Selected Track Input Series
         Selected Track Inputs
         M-Audio Delta Audiophile (3 in, 2 out) >
                                                                       Left Delta AP 1/2
                                                                       Right Delta AP 1/2
                                                                       Stereo Delta AP 1/2
                                                                       Left Delta AP Monitor
                                                                       Right Delta AP Monitor
                                                                       Stereo Delta AP Monitor
                                                                       Left Delta AP SPDIF
                                                                       Right Delta AP SPDIF
                                                                       Stereo Delta AP SPDIF


    for (O) output options are:
    ----None----
    Delta AP 1/2
    Delta AP SPDIF
    --------------------
    Master
    Metronome
    --------------------
    Selected Track Outputs
    New Stereo Bus
    New Surround Bus


    I recorded a short part and tried many options but no sounds from Sonar while my headphones are connected to GW 7 (Echo is on).
    post edited by voltrano - 2010/11/17 16:43:16
    #16
    lorneyb2
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 16:51:51 (permalink)
    My guess would be

    input M-Audio Delta Audiophile (3 in, 2 out) >Stereo Delta AP 1/2

    output Delta AP 1/2
    #17
    voltrano
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 16:58:45 (permalink)
    No sound from Sonar... I tried many and many times...
    #18
    lorneyb2
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 17:21:53 (permalink)
    Maybe try this

    input     Selected Track Input Series > now in the box that comes up select the first stereo that comes up. 

    Make sure you have echo on turned on for the track. 

    Just to make sure you are trying to connect to correct plugs it should be going from the L and R plugs on the back of your GW-7 to the First White and Red plugs on you sound card. 

    The other 2 White and Red plugs should be going to your speakes. 


    Is this how you have it set up?
    #19
    voltrano
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 17:51:01 (permalink)
    OK. No connection problem. I hear the audio track in Sonar when I connected my headphones to soundcard, but how  can I record now to audio track when I play accordion on the GW 7? I must connection my headphones to my GW 7 to play accordion. Then how can I hear my recorded track from Sonar while I'm playing accordion on GW 7?
    #20
    lorneyb2
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 18:10:58 (permalink)
    You should be able to hear it now through sonar when you play so just leave them plugged into sonar. 
    #21
    voltrano
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 18:27:49 (permalink)
    Did you watch my video? You don't understand what I want to do... My problems are not connection problems... My problems are recording problems... Many thanks for your efforts but there is no solution for these problems I think ... Many thanks again... :)
    #22
    lorneyb2
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 18:51:45 (permalink)
    Ok if you have the sound coming in now you are on your way to what you want to do.  You can now have Sonar basically play your GW-7 and edit the midi and record the output of that edited midi like you showed in your video. 

    You now have all the connections to do exactly what you want. 

    For example in the section where you talk about Mr Dwight If you solo any one of those midi tracks you can edit how you wish and record the edited Audio via the new audio track you create for that midi track.  Arm the audio track and hit record. You now have your audio captured.   After that track is good Mute that midi track and and you have the good audio that you want. 

    Then go to next midi track and do the same(create audio track, edit midi, record audio)

    If you want to add a new part first record the Midi, edit it then as above record the Audio.

    As the song progresses you will have all your midi tracks muted and only audio tracks playing.
    post edited by lorneyb2 - 2010/11/17 18:53:42
    #23
    voltrano
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/17 19:08:51 (permalink)
    I will try and write the result to you again. I hope can do it... Good night for now... :)
    #24
    voltrano
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/18 12:47:17 (permalink)
    That was it!... Finally!... Yuppiiii and Yehooooooo!...
    Dear friend "lorneyb2", you did a wonderful job for me… You didn’t never give up, you gave me a very good idea on the contrary.  My two major problems were solved finally with your great efforts… 
    Many many thanks for your interest…
    I can hear and see all notes (rhythm and solo instruments in the tracks separately) that I performed via GW 7’s sounds and add different instruments from any vsti and can edit all these notes on piano roll in Sonar and then can record my work as an audio track. That was the principal what I wanted to do firstly...
    I can make additions with GW 7’s instruments (using different or same solo instruments) over and over what I want to on my work that I recorded previously. That was the principal what I wanted to do secondly...
    There is a beautiful thing in this case,  I can create very very beautiful loops and use some parts of the GW 7’s rhythm patterns (for example, only bass and drum or only drum beats etc.).
    I have been waiting for today since 1996… I thought and wanted from time to time to leave everything because  forced me all of those complexity.  I love very much “internet” and the all friends who share information.
    I’m very happy now because I’m an amateur but can record hereafter my works like a professional … 
    Thank you “lorneyb2”...

    Thank you again and again… 
    post edited by voltrano - 2010/11/18 13:28:34
    #25
    lorneyb2
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    Re: Sonar 8.5.3 and Roland GW7 does not recognize each other... 2010/11/19 01:48:13 (permalink)
    Terrific.  Now go have some fun doing what you love doing.

    Lorneyb2

    #26
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