Sonar Drum Maps - How and Why - Tutorial Inside

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Mick
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RE: Sonar Drum Maps - How and Why - Tutorial Inside 2008/04/20 12:03:29 (permalink)
I was suprised to hear that the DTXpress IV does not have a MIDI in port, suprised enough to even look it up, and sure enough, no MIDI in port. I hate to break it to you but this means you can NOT use Sonar to control the DTXpress. You cannot use Sonar's drum maps to control the DTXpress/ie, cause it to make sounds.

This does not mean you cannot make good use of drum maps - you can use them to control any softsynth and any hardsynth that is MIDI compatible. And you can of course use your DTXpress to controll any softsynth through Sonar. So, with drummaps, you can play your DTXpress, and have Sonar map each drum you hit to any drum on any softsynth you have in Sonar, but, using drummaps, you will not be able to access the actual sounds of the DTXpress.

I'm kind of confused as to what you actually want to do with a drummap. If the idea is to be able to play the DTXpress and use it's own sounds, you don't need any drummap at all (in fact, you don't need Sonar at all for that). If you want to play the DTXpress to control a softsynth or some other synth, then it does not matter that the DTXpress does not have MIDI in.

Totally independatly of drummaps, if you want to get the actual DTXpress sounds "into" sonar - IE recored in one of Sonar's tracks, you have to route the output of the Xpress into an input on your sound card.

From what you said about latency, it sounds like you are trying to use DTXpress to control a softsynth- assuming that is correct, you can lower the latency in the General/Audio options window - but if you lower it too low you will get dropouts.

Your statement "the drum set has normal audio out lines going to a separate amplification system" confuses me. There it seems like you are indeed trying to use the sounds of the DTXpress. Are you saying the output of the DTXpress is going to some kind of amplifier/speaker/etc and the sound is coming out a second later? Does the output go through your computer at all before going to the separate amplification system?

Mick (no relation)

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micklean
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RE: Sonar Drum Maps - How and Why - Tutorial Inside 2008/04/20 13:11:29 (permalink)
You sir are a prince for getting back to me in such short order.

Don’t really care about the running the drum set from CW/Sonar (ie MIDI in) Right now the BIG problem is that I hit a “pad” and the sound doesn’t come out immediately via the MIDI hookup.

Latency Question:

I’ve “mapped “ my output to “10-DM1-GM Drums (Complete Kit)*” Is that a “soft synth”?

If I hit a “pad”,the sound comes out a bit later via the MIDI monitor.

The drum set has “regular” audio outputs that can go to standard amplification for use in a “live” gig. That works fine. I hit a drum/pad and I hear the sound right away. Again, the MIDI hookup lags behind a bit.

You might be confused if you don’t use your set outside of a studio environment.

Out
Mick

Behringer DDX3216 "light-piped" (ADAT) to a Dakota soundcard to Sonar 3 studio edition. S/PDif'd back from Dakota to DDX3216 for "near field" powered control room monitors.
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Mick
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RE: Sonar Drum Maps - How and Why - Tutorial Inside 2008/04/20 16:21:18 (permalink)
Hi Mick,

I'm not sure what the “10-DM1-GM Drums (Complete Kit)*”is, but I have a sneaking suspicion it is a drumset that comes with the Microsoft Wavetable Synth. For the most part, softsynths come in the form of "plugins." To use them, you have to insert them into your project. Really it should be explained pretty well in the tutorials. If you add a midi track to your project and you haven't set up any softsynths, depending on how your computer is set up, Sonar then uses the Microsoft Wavetable Synth, sort of as a default MIDI synth. It sucks for many reasons, and would be the most likely cause of the delay.

I think you said you were using Sonar 7, correct? That comes with a number of softsynths that play drums, including Session Drummer 2 and the TTS-1. Check up on inserting them into your project in the help files or the manual. Then change the midi track that is currently outputing to the 10-MDI-GM thing and set it's output port to the TTS-1 (or sessiondrummer 2). Most likely it will be easier for you to set up the TTS1 than the SS2.

You may wanna try this: create a new project. Add the TTS-1 using the Insert menu (Insert/Softsynth/Cakewalkt TTS-1). In the next screen that pops up, makesure the boxes that say MIDI Source and "First Synth Audio Output" are checked. Then click ok. Sonar will add two tracks, a midi track and an audio track that accepts the audio output of the TTS-1 synth. Assuming your drum kit is the only midi controller you have, the MIDI track will automatically be set up to accept it's output. Just change the Midi Channel parameter of that midi track to channel 10. Assuming your drum kit is "General Midi", then when you play your drum kit, you'll be playing the TTS-1, and there will probably be no delay, but if there is we'll probably be able to get rid of it just by changing the latency setting in the general audio options box.. If your drum ctonroller is not General Midi compatible, then it will require more work...

ORIGINAL: micklean W

You sir are a prince for getting back to me in such short order.

Don’t really care about the running the drum set from CW/Sonar (ie MIDI in) Right now the BIG problem is that I hit a “pad” and the sound doesn’t come out immediately via the MIDI hookup.

Latency Question:

I’ve “mapped “ my output to “10-DM1-GM Drums (Complete Kit)*” Is that a “soft synth”?

If I hit a “pad”,the sound comes out a bit later via the MIDI monitor.

The drum set has “regular” audio outputs that can go to standard amplification for use in a “live” gig. That works fine. I hit a drum/pad and I hear the sound right away. Again, the MIDI hookup lags behind a bit.

You might be confused if you don’t use your set outside of a studio environment.

Out
Mick


post edited by Mick - 2008/04/20 16:47:46

I have not changed my signature.
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HumbleNoise
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RE: Sonar Drum Maps - How and Why - Tutorial Inside 2008/04/20 17:15:57 (permalink)
Blades, Have wanted to thank you for the drum map tutorial for a while but his thread got away from me. I substituted my first soft synth tone in place of an EZ Drum kick and it was pretty easy thanks to the tutorial.

I have a bit of a technical question though. I have a Roland XV-88 keyboard/synth with hundreds of drum sounds and I have only the standard EZ Drum kit.

I tried your technique to get some of the XV's sounds into a drum map but never got the Roland to be a choice in the drum map manager. As soon as I opened a soft synth it was right there and a couple of trial and error in note out numbers later I was there, but the XV never seems to be a choice as a source for its MIDI drum sounds. Any way to place MIDI sounds from a keyboard like you show from a soft synth?

And thanks again - your vid has helped a lot.

Humbly Yours

Larry

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#64
Blades
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RE: Sonar Drum Maps - How and Why - Tutorial Inside 2008/04/21 10:25:36 (permalink)
The difficulty with some synths (Roland being one of those, especially when using add-in cards in the unit - like the SRX cards) is that they require you to select stuff using certain banks and presets. The only easy way to get to those banks in a meaningful way is to also use an instrument definition. These allow you to specify where things are within the synth - for example, the drums on an SRX card may be located (making these numbers up) in a place like Bank 10245 - where the presets for the different kits would reside. From there, you'd be able to choose the port and channel within the drum map to point to those locations and be able to route your midi appropriately.

Micklean: Like Mick said, if there is no MIDI IN port on your drum brain, then you will not be able to control it with Sonar, with or without drum maps. The drum map that you have chosen is simply a collection of midi notes that are "translated" from input to output, and a limited number of notes that would correspond (in this case) to a "General MIDI" drum layout. These are pretty common for many drum related synths to map to, but not all of them. This simply means that the kcik will be on the C of the octave, the snare on the D above, the snare rim on the E above, sidestick snare on the c# in that octave, the toms would cascade from the D above down to the F, the cymbals will be above that someplace, etc. You can pretty easily find a description of "GM Drums" layout all around the web.

What does that have to do with the drum map? Only that the notes are organized in such a way that they point out to those note locations. Drum Maps have NOTHING to do with the actual device or softsynth that is attached to the output. Their names may imply that they do for simplicity, like GM Drums, or Yamaha XG Drums, or Alesis DM5, or whatever, but what really matters is what "port" you have patched out to in the map. For example, I could use a GM Drum Map and set the output on each note to go to my vdrums brain. I'd get SOME of the notes to trigger right, but there would be others that may not get the desired sound, and certainly a LOT of notes that would be missing (like some of the extra trigger's edge assignments, like the low tom rims, or the extra splash edge or whatever). That's why I started with a new one and just played all of the notes in that I knew I'd use. This way, all of my input notes would be represented. Then, depending on what you attached synth or soft-instrument has its notes on will determine what you need to punch in for each of the OUT notes in the map. For example, if your DTXPress sends a kick drum on midi note C2, but the softsynth you want to trigger (like I-map layout from IK Multimedia products) may be located a the C note two octaves up. THIS is the note you'd want to assign as the out note on that line of the map. So, you play a C2 (kick) on your kit and it then sends the output over to the other synth at midi note C4, or wherever. You can think of it like a virtual patch bay for midi drum notes. The important thing to remember is that the map presets that come with Sonar are named for simplicity and the actual mapping on the INPUT side of those maps may have nothing to do with what you get in from the DTXPress. Maybe they do, maybe they don't.

Does that help at all?

Blades
www.blades.technology  - Technology Info and Tutorials for Music and Web
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