TomHelvey
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Sonar, Final Thoughts
As I stumble into the next year, angry, confused, and ignorant. I wish Sonar a fond farewell, I've gotten to do some great mixes there, it's been a useful tool. Admittedly, I totally messed up my box, after a fresh install, things that used to crash, no longer do so. Even with a completely hosed windows installation, Sonar worked well enough to get the job done. Kudos to the Dev team. I still have 100's of Sonar projects so I will probably use my currently frozen version for the foreseeable future, but I have no motivation whatsoever to purchase the next upgrade. With a brand new windows 7 environment using a UAD Apollo Quad (FW 800) as a primary interface, and all hardware and drivers 100% in sync. DAWs like Live and Cubase, regardless of channel count, render perfectly in real time, while Sonar always seems to generate audio dropouts. Sonar renders OK for bounces. It's more than that though, 120 measures of kick without Ctrl-D? If you object to things like VCA channels, have you ever used them? IMHO, the Windows centric implementation of Sonar is its undoing. OK, fine, I'll go away quietly now. My apologies if I've pissed anyone off.
post edited by TomHelvey - 2015/12/25 05:03:55
System: i7-6900, 64Gb, AMI X99 Carbon Pro Gaming, AMD Radeon HD 7700, Win 10 Pro PCIe: UAD Octo USB: MOTU midi express 128, OB-6 Module, Akai MPK-249, Moog SUB 37, Antelope Orion 32 HD, Softube Console 1, iLok, eLicenser DAW: Cubase Pro, Ableton Live, Sonar Platinum Plugins: Waves, UAD, Xfer, Lennar Digital, u-he, Reveal Sound, Spectrasonics, SoundToys, VPS, Blue Cat, iZotope, NI, Valhalla, Lexicon, etc. https://soundcloud.com/thomas-helvey
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Richard Cranium
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 05:28:29
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So you're not even staying for the Software and Deals forums ???
You might want to give Studio One a look if you haven't already, it's the Ducks Nuts.
Best of luck with it, Bon Voyage, bon appetit, bon scott and all that.
Studio One 3 Rocks The House, Frequently Voted Best DAW 2015 !!
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mudgel
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 05:40:20
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Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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gustabo
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 05:53:45
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☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2015/12/25 06:16:22
If a person is gonna leave, then leave...
Why the drama???
Bye...
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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DeeringAmps
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 08:54:31
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Tom Deering Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins Win10x64 StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM  RME UFX (Audio) Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
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KingsMix
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 09:49:08
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Apology accepted.
No Offence.
You'll be back. And welcomed.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 10:31:05
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2015/12/27 20:22:12
DAWs like Live and Cubase, regardless of channel count, render perfectly in real time, while Sonar always seems to generate audio dropouts You've got a setting wrong somewhere, otherwise you would not be the only one with this "problem" I've rendered thousands of mixes in real time and rendering has never been an issue. The content might be, but the render is perfect.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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Kylotan
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 10:34:08
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TomHelvey
It's more than that though, 120 measures of kick without Ctrl-D? If you object to things like VCA channels, have you ever used them? IMHO, the Windows centric implementation of Sonar is its undoing.
What are these things? I'm intrigued.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Grizzlylip
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 10:43:21
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gustabo
If a person is gonna leave, then leave...
Why the drama???
Bye...
Yup.
Audio Interface: M-Audio Fast Track Ultra Computer: Dell XPS 8700 Windows 10 Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790 CPU @ 3.60GHz 3.60 GHz 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor Installed RAM: 8 GB Soundcard: ASIO Monitors: 3 M-Audio + Mackie MR8mk3 DAW: SONAR Platinum Hardware/Controller: Axiom 61 (2nd Gen) + Maschine Studio 2.0 Added Software: Komplete 10
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JayCee99
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 10:51:10
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This really isn't a farewell... Just someone saying they dont plan on upgrading. Either way its pretty uninteresting.
Sonar Platinum Audio Interface: Focusrite 18i8 ASIO Interface Keys: Korg Kronos 88, Alesis VI25 Windows 8.1 x64 Laptop, 8GB RAM, i7 CPU
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jpetersen
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 10:54:31
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I feel your pain. I have decided next time I buy another year of Sonar will be either when two bugs that hold up my workflow get fixed, or the Bakers introduce a feature I really could use. Two questions, if I may: >> "If you object to things like VCA channels, have you ever used them?" What are VCA channels? >> "DAWs like Live and Cubase, regardless of channel count, render perfectly in real time, >> while Sonar always seems to generate audio dropouts." By "renders", do you mean you have dropouts when recording? My standard mobile recording setup is an old 10" screen, Atom-based, Windows XP 32-bit netbook with Sonar 8.5.3, together with two Tascam interfaces (US-1641 and US-1800), I routinely record live bands, 28 tracks simultaneously. Perhaps your specific problem can be fixed. There are some erudite persons here, always ready to help. >> Sonar renders OK for bounces. This is what I don't understand. You can bounce OK? And so, presumably, generate a final output file OK? I must admit, I only use SPlat for mixdown-mastering. But I have never had dropouts in a bounce or final mixdown. Did I misunderstand something?
post edited by jpetersen - 2015/12/25 11:09:16
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 10:55:39
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2015/12/27 20:23:47
TomHelvey
DAWs like Live and Cubase, regardless of channel count, render perfectly in real time, while Sonar always seems to generate audio dropouts. I used to get intolerably frequent dropouts with projects that had >50 tracks and lots of small clips, then I changed Playback I/O Buffer Size to 256 and that solved it. I don't get dropouts now. IMHO, the Windows centric implementation of Sonar is its undoing. It's SONAR's main strength and its Achilles Heel (the same applies to Samplitude). Once you get everything tweaked properly, SONAR can outperform DAWs designed for cross-platform compatibility. I use SONAR on Windows for the same reason I use Logic on the Mac - both are optimized for the platform. However, the optimization process is different for different computers. This is why if anyone is going to do serious work with Windows, whether audio or video, I recommend getting a PC that's optimized for real-time streaming and integrated by companies that specialize in computers for that purpose. (This has had the side benefit of making Sony Vegas scream as well.) OK, fine, I'll go away quietly now. My apologies if I've pissed anyone off. I doubt anyone cares which DAW you use. I say the above not to dissuade you from switching, but to let others reading your comments know that SONAR is perfectly capable of rendering in real time without dropouts; and that far from Windows-centric design being a liability, it's a huge advantage if the computer and associated software take full advantage of it.
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lingyai
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 12:16:16
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☄ Helpfulby williamcopper 2015/12/26 04:15:53
Grizzlylip
gustabo
If a person is gonna leave, then leave...
Why the drama???
Bye...
Yup.
Just wondering, when somone starts an enthusiastic "Man I'm just loving Sonar" thread, do you heckle them too? "Who cares, just get on with the music then..." If nothing else, I can imagine that knowing why someone is leaving could be useful to CW.
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Leadfoot
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 12:21:20
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Every time I render, it's in real time, and I never get dropouts. Like Craig said, it's most likely just a buffer adjustment that's needed. But good luck to you and Merry Christmas!
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JayCee99
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 13:12:30
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2015/12/27 20:24:16
What I've found from jumping back and forth endlessly between DAW's is:
1) All DAW's are great
2) All DAW's suck
3) It's fun and exciting to switch and try new ones to reach conclusions #1 and #2
Sonar Platinum Audio Interface: Focusrite 18i8 ASIO Interface Keys: Korg Kronos 88, Alesis VI25 Windows 8.1 x64 Laptop, 8GB RAM, i7 CPU
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 14:21:28
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2015/12/26 07:15:13
I honestly don't know if I'm a peacemaker , an empathetic sponge , or an a$$ clown ...maybe all 3 and then some .... Why is it not OK to start a thread because you feel frustrated and you want to tap out ? In my book anybody who takes the time to "tell on themselves " about the genuine level of frustration they feel about using a highly sophisticated music creation program ( SONAR ) on a public forum deserves and has earned my respect ... It's a Million Dollar Studio most of us get better at on the installment plan. One Nickle At a Time  Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/12/25 14:53:02
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mettelus
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 16:12:51
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I admit I am confused by the OP, since they stated similar in early Sep.
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Brando
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 16:40:35
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lingyai
Grizzlylip
gustabo
If a person is gonna leave, then leave...
Why the drama???
Bye...
Yup.
Just wondering, when somone starts an enthusiastic "Man I'm just loving Sonar" thread, do you heckle them too? "Who cares, just get on with the music then..."
If nothing else, I can imagine that knowing why someone is leaving could be useful to CW.
Inevitably those who jump into the "I just love SONAR" threads are labelled with the "fanboi" monicker. Someone is going to criticize no matter what. Human nature I suppose.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 17:47:38
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☄ Helpfulby backwoods 2015/12/25 18:02:20
lingyai
Just wondering, when somone starts an enthusiastic "Man I'm just loving Sonar" thread, do you heckle them too? "Who cares, just get on with the music then..."
Scenario 1: You arrive at a get-together and see the host. You go up to the host and in a voice loud enough for everyone to hear, say to his wife "Hey, that dress is really ugly." Scenario 2: You arrive at a get-together and see the host. You go up to the host and in a voice loud enough for everyone to hear, say to his wife "Hey, you look great, nice dress." I can guarantee who will be looked upon more favorably by the people attending the party. (Doing a Richard Cranium and saying "Yeah, your dress sucks, but wow, look at the babe over there!" isn't exactly an endearing move either.) Most of the "Man I'm just loving SONAR" threads do conform to this forum's intention of helping people make better music with SONAR, as they often relate to specific elements like an update, optimization, technique that's been discovered, etc. It helps people to know if an update or whatever makes an improvement, and encourages them to try whatever is making the person enthusiastic. It doesn't help people make better music if someone comes in specifically to say they're going to use a different DAW. Tens of thousands of people use different DAWs. Fortunately, few of them consider their personal journey of DAW selection so compelling they need to come here and tell us about it. As to the usefulness of "I'm leaving Cakewalk" threads to Cakewalk, they rarely contain actionable information. The OP says he completely reworked his box...well, in all likelihood that's going to require some SONAR tweaks, especially if he re-installed SONAR which then reverted to specific defaults. The bakers already know SONAR doesn't need to have dropouts in real time unless you have a seriously underpowered computer or don't have the read buffer value set high enough--which you would know if you clicked on the "help" button for the toast notification that pops up when there's a dropout. I assume the comment of "120 measures of kick drums without Ctrl+D" refers to the Cubase keyboard shortcut for duplicate, in which case I doubt the OP is aware of the many ways to generate/duplicate audio or MIDI phrases in SONAR. People here just want to know how to make better music with the tools they have, and I would hope anyone posting a thread here would weigh the value of the thread against that standard.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 17:56:24
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kennywtelejazz
Why is it not OK to start a thread because you feel frustrated and you want to tap out ? Consider the recent thread "Don't Like SONAR Professional," which started from a very negative standpoint. People came up with potential solutions. The OP tried them. Several pages of posts later, he changed the title to "Success!! - Thanks to the Forum." He came here because he was frustrated and wanted to vent...but then he ended up finding out what he needed to do to make SONAR purr. And, his experience will be helpful to others who see the thread, encounter the same problems, and now know how to fix them. To me, that thread contributed to the forum owing to the OP's willingness to persevere. Not everyone wants to do that. Some people just want something that's plug-and-play, and that's fine too. I'd love a sports car but I drive a VW because I want a car that's plug-and-play. SONAR is where I get my sports car fix.
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John
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 18:25:14
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☄ Helpfulby Jimbo21 2015/12/26 08:57:25
On this day a thought about the son that is lost but returns is very applicable to the post Craig made. Having someone change their mind in a positive way is often the most rewording thing that can happen on this forum.
Often it takes some work on our part. Sometimes it is futile. However when it does go the "right" way there is nothing quite as cool.
Though this a goodbye thread we should keep our cool and see if it is possible to return a lost soul to the forum.
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mudgel
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 19:24:22
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2015/12/26 07:16:04
It's software. Get some perspective.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Snehankur
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 19:47:03
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I am also learning Sonar. Sometimes I tried a lot and get success. Sometimes I have a doubt, I get clarified. Sometimes I get lost, I put a question.. they get answered .. so many helping members. Frustration is a state of mind. Some people cannot fight it out. The title should have been "Sonar, 'MY' Final Thoughts". Members are not hackled here. Regards Snehankur
post edited by Snehankur - 2015/12/25 20:02:42
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 22:41:10
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Anderton
kennywtelejazz
Why is it not OK to start a thread because you feel frustrated and you want to tap out ?
Consider the recent thread "Don't Like SONAR Professional," which started from a very negative standpoint. People came up with potential solutions. The OP tried them. Several pages of posts later, he changed the title to "Success!! - Thanks to the Forum."
He came here because he was frustrated and wanted to vent...but then he ended up finding out what he needed to do to make SONAR purr. And, his experience will be helpful to others who see the thread, encounter the same problems, and now know how to fix them.
To me, that thread contributed to the forum owing to the OP's willingness to persevere. Not everyone wants to do that. Some people just want something that's plug-and-play, and that's fine too. I'd love a sports car but I drive a VW because I want a car that's plug-and-play. SONAR is where I get my sports car fix.
I have to say that I agree with you 100%  I remember that thread you mentioned .My feelings were empathetic towards the growing pains the OP was going through . He got through the other side of his learning curve .Also found myself learning something from what the people that were supporting his growth were telling him. In your new thread about Win 10 I was gonna mention how much I hated Win 8 . I didn't say anything there about it there because it was not my intention to come off like a Debby Downer ... I hated Win 8 so much it nearly drove me clear out of here , After almost a year of suffering with 8 I wound up starting a thread where I mentioned the idea of bringing my computer to the range and pumping a few clips of things that go boom into it ...At that time it was only because I took that risk to be vulnerable and state how frustrated I felt at the time a lot of people helped me diagnose and configure aspects of my computer to get it to the point where it was as optimized as it could be for what it was ... FWIW , I was blaming SONAR ,yet the truth was it was my computer that needed to be dialed in not SONAR . (just some personal introspection type of views on asking for help ) I have noticed the tendency in alpha male type personality's to revert to the archetype stereotype of not being able to ask for help and directions no matter how long and lost they may be . Our somewhat dysfunctional society outside of these forums is not really all that supportive of a person exposing themselves in such a way where they are not in full control , IMHO, it goes against the unwritten rules of the male locker room .... It just may happen to be a part of human nature to have the tendency to misdirect the energy and lash out as a form of asking for help in an acceptable way that makes sense to the person who has not fully developed the coping skills to simply accept that they may be stuck . Been there myself and eventually got tired the whole emotional self inflicted run around .. A mentor / friend used to tell me " K.....you can't shake hands with a closed fist " ... as simple as that may sound , I've been working on that one for about a decade and a half . Oftentimes it may take a more evolved person who contains a solid foundation of knowledge they have gained from many years of experience to just be present and willing to read between the lines to compensate for the person that needs the extra help and guidance . When that closed fist eventually gets opened the type of evolved person I just mentioned always seemed to be waiting in the wings ready to grab the open hand and offer guidance based on real world experience ... I happen to like the VW car example, my fist experiences driving were with a VW Super Beetle .Very fun car to drive. ... Yes I do get the whole SONAR sports car fix thing ... even at my level it is an exhilarating ride when it clicks and I can find the zone. nice talking with you , Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2015/12/25 22:56:52
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Richard Cranium
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/25 23:06:44
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2015/12/26 07:16:22
mudgel
It's software. Get some perspective.
lol . . . exactly . . . what a hoot. I was almost expecting Moses to descend in a cloud and begin to preach a sermon from the mount there for a minute  This place just cracks me up lol 
post edited by Richard Cranium - 2015/12/25 23:18:59
Studio One 3 Rocks The House, Frequently Voted Best DAW 2015 !!
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yorolpal
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/26 00:16:22
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Hey Craig...is your VW one of the "cheater" models? Seems like these days you don't know whose company or rep you can trust. Pick em. Still sticking with you an Cake though:-)
Or am I...as per usual...a nitwit?
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Vastman
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/26 00:20:47
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rlared
What I've found from jumping back and forth endlessly between DAW's is:
1) All DAW's are great
2) All DAW's suck
3) It's fun and exciting to switch and try new ones to reach conclusions #1 and #2
you make me chuckle... and absolutely true! Too bad the ego wacks out the mouth so often... I really do think it's an ego or insecurity thing, or maybe just the alpha male thing that causes people to tout their new girl friend...or they are just too ignorant or maybe just clueless or unaware or lazy about identifying the underlying problem; it is totally the alpha male syndrome to dis what they're leaving and act like a puppy peeing all over the floor for their new master. Tom did this much more politely than most. Tom's goodbye was fairly respectful; more so than many and if he does get on better with the other DAWs, that's great and I wish him well... Furthermore, I doubt he's the childish type that will keep coming here and touting how his new girlfriend is so much better than ours. For that, I respect him. Lastly, windows systems are all over the map... sometimes trying to track things down vs. moving on results in this... Different strokes for different folks... a mantra worth repeating... respecting this would result in a way different world
post edited by Vastman - 2015/12/26 05:18:22
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backwoods
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Sonar, Final Thoughts
2015/12/26 08:30:10
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backwoods
Richard Cranium
mudgel
It's software. Get some perspective.
lol . . . exactly . . . what a hoot.
I was almost expecting Moses to descend in a cloud and begin to preach a sermon from the mount there for a minute
This place just cracks me up lol
no need to be a dickhead. set your watch back 10 years and go hang out at the studio one forum. it's just software remember :)
Richard Cranium = "dickhead" ...whoda thunk it  And a very Convivial Easter to all that celebrate it.
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Anderton
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