michael diemer
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Sonar Learning Curve
I'm thinking about upgrading at some point to Professional from Sonar 8.5 Producer, mainly to get XML capability. Can anyone give me a quick idea of the learning curve? As much as going to another DAW entirely?
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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Kamikaze
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/07 23:45:15
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Have any other posters spoken well of XML compatibility? I would want to make sure of that if it was my sole reason to upgrade.
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mettelus
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/07 23:52:36
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As you are actively using 8.5.3, you will see a pretty decent "culture shock" in the X-series jump. The best perspective is to go in with an open mind, since it is easy to "expect" things that may have changed. Many things are very similar, but the ones that change often trip people up.
The easiest way to swallow the elephant is to eat a little at a time... keep both versions loaded on your machine and focus on learning your workflow's "most common tasks" inside the new SONAR (so you can get your best bang for the buck). Learn as you go, and this forum is one of the best resources there is when questions arise. As you get more familiar, the shift to just using the X-series tends to "just happen" for most.
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michael diemer
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 01:25:37
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That steep, huh? Sounds like it essentially is a new DAW. I did try a demo awhile back, and admittedly couldn't make heads or tails of it. But the same happens with demos of any DAWS.
As for XML: my need is to be able to to export into a notation program like Musescore, to get around Sonar's poor notation. I know I can export in 8.5 as a midi file, but I'm not sure how well that imports into a notation program.
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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mettelus
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 01:51:41
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I am not sure if I would use "steep" but more "different." I came from SONAR 7, but had not used it in a while and am thankful for that because I didn't immediately react with "why is it this way now?"
Some workflows are so similar that they are nearly identical. People tend to notice the differences a lot more, and there were (and still are) loads of "why can't this be like [enter previous version here]?" threads. Leaving both loaded will allow you to switch between them fairly readily. Most folks have a specific work flow they default to, so the best way to learn is to simply target those areas first (significantly quicker).
If you consider the perspective of a new user (to any DAW), simple routing of MIDI->VSTi can be an incredible hurdle. In that regard, you are light years ahead already, since the core of the platforms is mostly the same (just different nuances).
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mudgel
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 02:02:10
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michael diemer
I'm thinking about upgrading at some point to Professional from Sonar 8.5 Producer, mainly to get XML capability. Can anyone give me a quick idea of the learning curve? As much as going to another DAW entirely?
See the link. Artist also supports MusicXML export.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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mudgel
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 02:05:49
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michael diemer
That steep, huh? Sounds like it essentially is a new DAW. I did try a demo awhile back, and admittedly couldn't make heads or tails of it. But the same happens with demos of any DAWS.
As for XML: my need is to be able to to export into a notation program like Musescore, to get around Sonar's poor notation. I know I can export in 8.5 as a midi file, but I'm not sure how well that imports into a notation program.
If you know a Sonar user why not send them one of your Sonar projects (MIDI) and get them to export it as XML and see whether it lives up to your expectations.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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SquireBum
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 10:51:05
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michael diemer
Sounds like it essentially is a new DAW. I did try a demo awhile back, and admittedly couldn't make heads or tails of it. But the same happens with demos of any DAWS.
While the Sonar "X" series created significant user interface changes with the Skylight interface, many of the dialog windows have not changed since 8.5.3. The "X" series terminology is the same as 8.5.3. For example, a clip is still called a clip, not a "Media item" or an "Event". Recommend viewing the videos in the Get Started section at http://www.cakewalk.com/CakeTV/SONAR-University/Get-Started. Start with the Sonar X1 videos, since the majority of user interface change happened in X1. Also, review the Sonar X3 documentation PDFs, which can downloaded at http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013322/SONAR-X3-Reference-User-and-Quick-Start-Guides. -- Ron
Cakewalk by Bandlab, Sonar Platinum x64 2017.10, X3E, X2a, X1d, 8.5 Windows 10 x64 AMD Phenom II X4 955 3.20 GHz 8 GB Ram Nvidia GeForce 9500 GT Echo Gina 3G
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michael diemer
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 13:31:23
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Thank you Kamikaze, Mettelus, Mudgel and Squire Bum for this info. Re: Artist, I would go with Pro in order to get more plugins and other features. but if I can work in Musescore from 8.5 export, I may not even need to upgrade.
My workflow is pretty simple. I record via step-record mostly, do my editing in staff view, also use event list a lot; mix and master in console. That's pretty much it. No PRV for me, it's always been too abstract. I like seeing the actual notes, since I'm classically trained (School of Diemerology - self-taught).
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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bapu
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 15:58:02
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michael diemer
As much as going to another DAW entirely?
Not having any clue how long it would take you to learn an other DAW, I can't say. I jumped from 8.5 all the way to X1. Was fully using it on day one. Same for X2, X3 and SONAR Platinum. I'm a super star though.
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 16:25:41
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I jumped from 3P to X1, which was a terror to work with until the "D" update.
Buggy as hell. but core operations conventions/functionality remained.
On Dorchester now, runs smooth as silk. Make the jump. Skip all the crap we already had to work
through as user/guinea pigs.
I think you will be happier for it; I think the fact that Splat has so many steep learning curves
is a reflection of just how much good stuff is packed inside, for the price.
couple years ago you paid thousands for 32 bit Pro Tools...
Sonar was one of the very 1st to go 64bit and NOT charge you for it.
m2c
Mel
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michael diemer
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 16:31:28
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2015/05/08 16:59:37
bapu
I'm a super star though.
We all have our crosses to bear.
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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TPayton
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 19:03:37
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bapu
michael diemer
As much as going to another DAW entirely?
I jumped from 8.5 all the way to X1. Was fully using it on day one. Same for X2, X3 and SONAR Platinum.
I'm a super star though.
Ha! That's nuthin'. I jumped from Guitar Tracks Pro3 to Sonar X1. Unfortunately it was a nasty jump and I fell, skinned my knee, and then fell through the Skylight Interface. I am still working towards superstar status.
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mixmkr
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 20:07:39
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I upgraded to X3 from Sonar 7PE and had no problems. I currently have Sonar Plat and still no user issues, that make for show stoppers. If you're comfortable with your current version, I'd go for it and as suggested, keep in on your computer until after a couple days you realize you'll never use it again :-)
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bapu
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 20:11:41
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Keep your current version on your computer no matter what. Unless you plan on re-installing Platinum. Deleting an older version is problematic if you REALLY do not know what you're doing. Older version take so little space unless your C drive is 120mb SSD then I'd say you may need uninstall the old version (you wont lose projects if they are stored outside of "C:\Program Files") and the install SPlat.
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slartabartfast
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 20:34:18
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If you are looking to export MusicXML and that is the sole reason for the change, you might want to look into some other way to do the job. Sonar has never gotten really high marks for its staff view, and if you are not writing the notation yourself (i.e if you are intending to export MIDI to XML) there are probably better and cheaper ways to go. If you can live with the staff view in 8.5, you can probably get the functionality you need with Finale Notepad for free. Sonar 8.5 will import and export MIDI, and Notepad will do both MIDI and MusicXML. And if you are looking to work in notation yourself, you may find Notepad preferable to Sonar for simple layouts. As mentioned previously, the new X-series interface is going to take some getting used to. Learning Notepad or one of the other notation programs or programs that will convert MusicXML is probably going to be easier. http://www.musicxml.com/software/http://www.finalemusic.com/products/finale-notepad/
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michael diemer
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/08 21:52:35
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slartabartfast
If you are looking to export MusicXML and that is the sole reason for the change, you might want to look into some other way to do the job. Sonar has never gotten really high marks for its staff view, and if you are not writing the notation yourself (i.e if you are intending to export MIDI to XML) there are probably better and cheaper ways to go. If you can live with the staff view in 8.5, you can probably get the functionality you need with Finale Notepad for free. Sonar 8.5 will import and export MIDI, and Notepad will do both MIDI and MusicXML. And if you are looking to work in notation yourself, you may find Notepad preferable to Sonar for simple layouts. As mentioned previously, the new X-series interface is going to take some getting used to. Learning Notepad or one of the other notation programs or programs that will convert MusicXML is probably going to be easier.
http://www.musicxml.com/software/
http://www.finalemusic.com/products/finale-notepad/
Thanks for the info. I do like 8.5 and seem to be able to do what I need to do there. To make my projects complete though, I need decent notation. My workflow is to do my composing/arranging/mixing in Sonar, then I'm looking to export into a notation program, so this info is helpful. Of course, it would be nice to do it all in one program, and I'd love for that to be Sonar. But I'm not holding my breath. If they don't improve notation, it's only a matter of time until I end up somewhere else. but for now I'm looking to find a suitable workaround.
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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Lord Tim
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/09 06:47:09
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The biggest thing for me was relearning all of the keyboard shortcuts, and the new menu locations. A lot of stuff has moved from the main menus into the track view menus, for example. Honestly, once you get past that, and how it looks now, and you understand the quirks of the Smart Tool, it's really not that different to 8.x. I'd say you'd be back up to speed within a week, and then you'll get to see how useful stuff like the Browser window is, and how good things like ARA integration is as well. 
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mudgel
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/09 06:58:56
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Not to mention cool new features like Mix Recall and VocalSync, just to name a couple.
Honestly for the person that does different mixes of the same project as part of their workflow, Mix recall saves so much time. That one feature was worth the price of the X3 to Sonar upgrade.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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michael diemer
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/09 13:19:06
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One of the big issues for me is track view. Since I'm doing classical, I like seeing that long list of instruments, 40 or more, in track view. So I wonder if the new Skylight interface does away with that, giving me a track view of only a few instruments. Track view is home for me. From there I go to staff view, event list or console as needed. The all-in-one GUI has me a little concerned.
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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TPayton
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/10 07:04:59
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Not a problem Michael. The Skylight interface is very flexible. You can dedicate a view exclusively to track view and have it occupy the entire screen, and then toggle it back and forth from other views with one keystroke. And you can set up staff view to do the same.
My emphasis is usually on console view, so I have it set up to do what I just described.
I'm an old dog who doesn't like to learn new tricks. The Skylight interface gave me fits at first. But after spending more time with it I'm finding it is the best feature of the new Sonar. I'm finding things in it that I didn't think or know I needed, but am now glad to have discovered.
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charlyg
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/10 11:14:20
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I have been in the upgrade path since DOS. You notice I didn't say user? I became a user two months ago and now I'm about half way through my first attempt at the first song. The singer/singwriter(John) loves how it's going. He had done his stuff on a Tascam 2488, but it's really raw.... His wife heard our latest (export audio) iteration, and was impressed with how professional it sounded, even with all the mistakes! I use Groove 3 for my knowledge base. Of course, I now peruse the Sonar forum for kernels of wisdom as well.
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michael diemer
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/10 13:12:46
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I'm feeling a bit better now about the upgrade, if and when I choose to do it. Thanks for all the great feedback, folks.
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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John
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/10 14:45:16
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You have gotten very good answers to your questions. I will add this more to emphasize than to add. The X series has gone through an almost complete rewriting to incorporate user ideas that have made Sonar Platinum a full fledge winner. It is so well thought out now that there is nothing it can't do easily and quickly.
You will need to look at the videos and read up on it to get a handle on how it is different from the old model. At some point it will all make a great deal of sense. This will come faster than one may think too. All it requires is a willingness to learn and an open mind.
One really cool thing that will always be around is this forum. We are here 24 7 to help with the transition.
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michael diemer
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Re: Sonar Learning Curve
2015/05/10 18:34:06
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Yes, this forum is wonderful!
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