Sonar Metering @ 96K

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davec69
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2015/11/19 05:43:47 (permalink)

Sonar Metering @ 96K

I have a question about level metering in Sonar, when recording or working with projects at higher sample rates, like 96k.  Are there any setting changes needed in Sonar, to get accurate level metering?  I just want to be I'm getting accurate levels.   Sometimes, the playback seems much hotter than the actual level showing on the meters.

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    John
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    Re: Sonar Metering @ 96K 2015/11/19 05:59:43 (permalink)
    There is no setup for a higher sample rate. One big thing to be aware of is the record meters in Sonar are measuring the level coming off the disk. The faders in record mode will not impact the level actually being recorded. It is thus important to set them to unity to get accurate metering while recording. The level is set at your sound card's preamp.  

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    John
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    John
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    Re: Sonar Metering @ 96K 2015/11/19 06:08:57 (permalink)
    To make it as clear as I can sample rate has no impact on metering or levels. Nor does bit depth.  0 dB is 0 dB no matter what.

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    John
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    drewfx1
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    Re: Sonar Metering @ 96K 2015/11/19 13:18:24 (permalink)
    John
    To make it as clear as I can sample rate has no impact on metering or levels. Nor does bit depth.  0 dB is 0 dB no matter what.




    Actually, to be technically correct, peak levels might be a little higher at higher sample rates because of the relationship between sample rate and intersample peaks.
     
    But it's not something anyone needs to worry about under ordinary circumstances unless one is wondering why a peak level came out 1dB higher after a sample rate conversion.
     
    But unless there's a bug, Sonar's meters are indeed always accurate regardless of sample rate or bit depth.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    davec69
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    Re: Sonar Metering @ 96K 2015/11/19 14:57:16 (permalink)
    Thanks for the helpful responses.  To use an example, I noticed last night, that the bass track on a project that I was working on was showing well below 0db on it's channel meter, I then froze that track, and instead of getting the visual wave, that I would expect, I get a massive wave that fills the whole track.  The sound is the same, but the visual representation of the frozen track is different than I would have expected, based on the channel metering.  Any ideas what's going on?

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    drewfx1
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    Re: Sonar Metering @ 96K 2015/11/19 15:40:11 (permalink)
    What do you have Render Bit Depth set to?
     
    If you have it set to 24bit or less and have a track that goes above 0dBFS for some reason, when you freeze it it will clip at 0dBFS. 
     
    If you need to have things go above 0dBFS or do so accidentally* for some reason, make sure Render Bit Depth is set to 32 bit.
     
     
    *Expect someone to lecture you on gain staging here shortly.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    davec69
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    Re: Sonar Metering @ 96K 2015/11/19 16:25:15 (permalink)
    The project is at 24bit.  Render bit depth is set to 32bit in preferences.  
     
    I did find one thing that helps.  I found the Post/Pre playback metering option, in the console view options dropdown.  I switched to Pre metering, and found that my drum track which looked fine in post was pegged when viewed in Pre metering mode.  That track is hosting a drum machine vsti.  Does this mean that the output from the drum machine is too hot?  Any ideas why the track would not show as pegged with post metering selected?
     

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    #7
    drewfx1
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    Re: Sonar Metering @ 96K 2015/11/19 16:58:42 (permalink)
    Note the signal flow here and where the pre and post meters are:
     
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Mixing.07.html
     
    If you are getting different readings from pre/post metering, then it's because you are changing the gain between them with the faders/pan/PC/FX.
     
    When recording, your audio interface level shouldn't be anywheres near 0dBFS and for soft synths you need to set the output of the synth lower.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Sonar Metering @ 96K 2015/11/19 17:15:39 (permalink)
    Access your Freeze settings by right-clicking the Freeze button.
     
    Make sure the option for Track Fx is checked - this will render the track at the level set by the fader.

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    davec69
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    Re: Sonar Metering @ 96K 2015/11/19 18:20:03 (permalink)
    Thanks for pointing out the signal flow chart, that really helps.  
     
    I just tried a few tests.  I used Reset Mix to clear all the FX from the project for testing, which made very little difference to the pegged level on the drum track, when viewed in Pre Playback metering.  The only way to lower that level was to lower the output on the VSTi from 0db (currently) to around -7.5db, which puts the pre meter close to -6db.   
     
    Regarding Bristol's post on the freeze options,  The "Track Fx" option was not checked in freeze options.  According to the help file, it should be checked by default.  I've never changed that setting until now, not sure how it became unchecked.  According to the help file, checking this box will also freeze the Fx, to conserve CPU power, if I understand it correctly?   I often freeze tracks with the intent of saving CPU power, I didn't know that without checking the Track Fx option, I really wasn't saving much CPU power.

    Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop
    Intel i7-4700MQ
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    Sonar Platinum (Last Update)
    Cakewalk Bandlab (Latest Update)
    Roland Quad Capture (Bios 1.04 / 1.52 drivers)

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