CHAXILE
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Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
when recording in real time monitoring especial vocals it delays its not monitoring real
time and most of people i work with are complaining can you please fix it
to be real time like other similar daw eg studio one and mixcraft daw they are
real time monitoring but i want to use sonar for rest of my life and its laking
only that one feature other wise everything will be good pLEASE
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/13 02:34:50
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It would be interesting to do it within Sonar where you have one track that could have some FX but only delay as required to support those FX and merge it with the rest of the mix that is delayed differently.
Most of Sonar users who want real time monitoring route directly from the Interface. So, with my RME I would use the RME Software to route my input directly to my output and merge that with what is playing back in Sonar.
I agree this would be a nice addition to Sonar to be able to have a track that could have a few FX on it but not so many as the rest of the mix. The track for real time would merge with the main mix with a different amount of delay.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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stxx
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/13 02:35:30
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It has real time monitoring. Read the manual. However, its best to monitor through your interface mixer software (unless you're running thunderbolt) and have the 2 bus from Sonar play through the monitor inputs. This way you mix your previously recorded tracks with the new input with little delay. Best to have your previous tracks bounced to a rough mix onto a stereo track as well so you can play to a track with some FX. Adding plugins causes latency so I run with the FX bypassed and a rough mixed tracs as I just described but there are many ways to do it.
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/13 02:39:07
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Stxx, I think what he wants is to be able to have certain tracks that run at one latency and others that run at a different latency. I'm not talking about the interface buffer. I'm talking about the latency of the stacked effects. So you could have a main mix that has a 1.5 second latency and merge it with another track with 20 millisecond latency through Sonar. Then you could have some Sonar FX on the track and still blend it with the main mix. It would be for the performance of performing the take and nothing else.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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stxx
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/13 02:39:18
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gswitz
It would be interesting to do it within Sonar where you have one track that could have some FX but only delay as required to support those FX and merge it with the rest of the mix that is delayed differently.
Most of Sonar users who want real time monitoring route directly from the Interface. So, with my RME I would use the RME Software to route my input directly to my output and merge that with what is playing back in Sonar.
I agree this would be a nice addition to Sonar to be able to have a track that could have a few FX on it but not so many as the rest of the mix. The track for real time would merge with the main mix with a different amount of delay.
i also have an RME and it has useable verb and delay for tracking so my clients rarely complain. The RME Totalmix software is very versatile and works great for control and / or live room monitoring
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/13 02:55:33
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Oh yeah... for me and you, this is not really necessary.
But still, it would be cool.
Are there no Cake FX you can imagine enjoying with real time monitoring while a primary mix that's much heavier rolls on?
So, you could take a heavy mix,
bounce it to a stereo track,
drag it into a new project (simplest way to get something with no FX)
and record your lightly effected track in that project...
then drag it back to the original.
Total PIA, but it would do the trick.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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mettelus
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/13 11:16:57
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☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2018/06/14 22:32:12
Global FX bypass (E) then re-engaging the FX rack on the recorded track is another alternative, but the OP has a point. Most options are either not available to everyone or not a "point-and-click" solution.
I am not familiar with Mixcraft, but Studio One achieves this by using multiple audio engines. The mix engine can run a massive buffer and is just doing playback, while the tracking engine is only processing armed tracks with a tracking buffer only. In theory it seems pretty simple, since SONAR/CbB has complex routing as it is, so a tracking engine to support recording would be a nice addition. Studio One also flags out FX which do not report less than 3ms internal latency (i.e., the "look aheads") for this. This would be another nice feature to have in CbB, since the user would not need to KNOW (and then find them all) which are the offenders and those "look aheads" are commonly the reason for latency as a project is getting mixed (also why the global FX bypass will often "suffice").
As global FX bypass seems to cause many grief, sans another audio engine, a simpler feature would be to add a "look ahead FX bypass" option to CbB as an interim option. Again, users do not know all of these offenders (we learn by experience only most times), but the DAW knows what is being reported to it so should be handled there anyway.
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stxx
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/13 19:14:32
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gswitz
Oh yeah... for me and you, this is not really necessary.
But still, it would be cool.
Are there no Cake FX you can imagine enjoying with real time monitoring while a primary mix that's much heavier rolls on?
So, you could take a heavy mix,
bounce it to a stereo track,
drag it into a new project (simplest way to get something with no FX)
and record your lightly effected track in that project...
then drag it back to the original.
Total PIA, but it would do the trick.
I'm confused what the OP wants to do but yes, I always mix the tracks that are ready prior to a new session and toggle off the FX and just solo the new mix. No need to move it to a new project. There is a way I used to it before I got the RME so let me try to recla.. If I wanted a nice reverb on the incoming track, I would still have the rough mixdown but then I think I used the incoming track with input monitoring on, created a send to the reverb and set the send to pre and muted the track. Then the signal would come in, you would here it echoed back but it would still go to the reverb which would come back with a very slight delay but less than normal predelay. This worked great on delays and verbs but never tried it on more ambitious FX. A couple of fx usually won't effect latency to much. I might be missing a step here cause its been a long time since I figured it out
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bvideo
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/14 06:42:26
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Is this a case of high latency in the audio interface settings?
Or is this another case of Plugin Delay Compensation?
CHAXILE might want to check up about this. Easiest quick check is try enabling Live Input PDC Override. That's the [PDC] button in the Mix Module.
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bitflipper
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/14 15:46:34
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There is no such thing as real time monitoring in any software DAW. It always takes a CPU a fixed amount of time to add 1 + 1 and there's no software magic that can get around that. All you can do is reduce latency to a point where it's not a problem. (Even hardware has latency, it's just really short.)
What you're asking for is a feature to allow disabling PDC on a per-track basis. Good news: it's already in there. It's called Live Input.
(A useful feature would be a dialog that reports latency for each plugin and each track. Even though it's not strictly needed because PDC works so well, it would be handy for easily identifying which plugins are introducing the greatest latency.)
Personally, I employ the method most people use, which is to exploit my interface's zero-latency monitoring option and hold off inserting latency-incurring effects until tracking is done. The OP doesn't say what kind of interface he has, but the vast majority of prosumer interfaces offer this feature.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/14 18:44:52
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There are a few causes of delay for input monitoring in any DAW.
1. The audio buffer size itself.
2. Plugin's that require lookahead in the signal path. By default all audio is delay compensated and this will cause input to be delayed.
3. The input/output (hardware) latency of the audio device itself
If you want to track at the lowest latency you must set 1 to be as small as it can be without causing dropouts. If you still hear latency after doing this its likely caused by 2. To overcome this you can bypass any plugins that cause delay in your signal path. Alternatively you can press the button labelled "PDC" on the mix toolbar. This will ignore any host delay compensation for "live" input monitoring.
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sock monkey
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/14 18:57:51
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I have a dedicated monitor mixer with effects for tracking. But a long time ago before I had that system I had a client ask for reverb and quickly figured out a simple solution.
You will still use direct monitoring at your interface to keep the dry signal loud.
Turn on input echo for the vocal track being recorded.
Have the vocal track set up with a send to an effects buss with the reverb. crank it up.
Set the send to PRE fader.
Now turn down the actual track level so you wont hear the delay coming out the back end. You will now hear the vocals both dry via direct monitoring and wet via the reverb buss. The reverb will include the RTL delay but because your mostly hearing the dry signal it's not a big deal.
Another way is to send the Vocals to a Vocal Buss and just mute that buss. You'll still hear the signal from the effects buss.
Cakelab - Sonar X3e Studio Singer Songwriter, Solo Performer, Acoustic Duo and semi pro Sound Monkey.
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fitzj
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/14 18:58:30
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Few use this feature now I would think as most audio Interfaces have direct monitoring with no latency.
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azslow3
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/14 19:39:53
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From OP question, it is unclear how advanced his setup really is... Mentioned DAWs are Studio One and Mixcraft. Well, recent versions of Studio One has "low latency mode" (== in advance processing), but does Mixcraft has that?
Can the driver mode be the reason? Is Sonar set to work with ASIO (or at least WASAPI Exclusive)?
Have you tried to set the same buffer settings (as in other DAWs) in Sonar and check without any plug-ins in the project there is no delay?
I hope the interface is at least of Zoom UAC class (RME/MOTU/Presonus Thunderbolt), the chance to get vocal monitored throw DAW without noticeable delay is almost zero otherwise (independent from the DAW).
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StepD
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/14 21:06:43
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I always use software input monitoring with effects. I can't even remember the last time I used hardware monitoring (probably back in the '90s). I can definitely see using hardware if you're recording multiple inputs from a band or something, or if you never want to bounce, but for me software monitoring has always been very acceptable, and I'm still using a Core2 and a discontinued audio interface (granted, with very good drivers). I will say that Studio One's dropout protection using separate streams for input and output is a pretty brilliant idea and works really well, so that would be an area Cake should explore. There's been plenty of feature "borrowing" from everyone over the years.
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Larry Jones
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/14 21:45:06
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stxx
It has real time monitoring. Read the manual. However, its best to monitor through your interface mixer software (unless you're running thunderbolt) and have the 2 bus from Sonar play through the monitor inputs. This way you mix your previously recorded tracks with the new input with little delay. Best to have your previous tracks bounced to a rough mix onto a stereo track as well so you can play to a track with some FX. Adding plugins causes latency so I run with the FX bypassed and a rough mixed tracs as I just described but there are many ways to do it.
I don't have clients anymore (because I just do my own stuff) but when I did I could pretty much guarantee that if I tried to feed the singer a prerecorded stereo mix she would want to hear "a little more guitar" or "a little less hi hat," or "more echo on the horns." So I didn't do it. 
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RSMCGUITAR
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/14 22:36:38
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☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2018/06/15 10:26:13
fitzj
Few use this feature now I would think as most audio Interfaces have direct monitoring with no latency.
Anyone tracking with Amp Sims would probably disagree.
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sock monkey
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/14 23:03:24
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Agree with Larry, I never had a problem using a full project when recording vocals. Never had an issue with having the "band" fully fleshed out and basic effects on everything. There's really just a few plug ins that cause problems and I by pass those in the bin.
Obviously Mr Step D is only recording VST instruments and not tracking guitar, bass or vocals live.
Either that or He/She is oblivious to timing.
It takes a pretty good modern computer and a top of the line interface like RME to have usable RTL that you might not notice. My system gives me about 7 ms at 128 buffer and even that is enough to be noticeable. My input echo is off unless it's midi.
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StepD
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/14 23:23:25
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sock monkey
Obviously Mr Step D is only recording VST instruments and not tracking guitar, bass or vocals live.
Either that or He/She is oblivious to timing.
Yeah, I have no idea what I'm doing. I feel so silly.
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/15 23:10:35
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Real time monitoring is best done on stage. 😄
post edited by gswitz - 2018/06/16 13:16:41
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/06/16 05:31:29
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2018/06/16 13:20:35
RSMCGUITAR
fitzj
Few use this feature now I would think as most audio Interfaces have direct monitoring with no latency.
Anyone tracking with Amp Sims would probably disagree.
It may depend on whether they're coming from a live performance background or not. When an amp is 10 feet behind you and you're moving around on stage, in the studio if you're monitoring through headphones (likely) you're getting the same latency with a decent audio interface. So it may not seem that out of place. It seems the people who are really picky about latency are drummers. One might think it's because they're sensitive to timing anyway, and that's surely true, but they're also only a few milliseconds away from their drums. For them, even a few milliseconds of delay is unsettling.
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BMOG
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/09/24 16:11:00
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This thread has helped a great deal with what may be causing my latency issues but I have also been researching how to increase memory to programs. Any chance there is a setting or config that will allow Sonar Splat to allocate more memory outside of what the windows pc is given it? Example I have is for Adobe Premiere and there is a setting which you can choose of how much memory you want to use from your PC. Any options like that for Splat?
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scook
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/09/24 16:32:10
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There are a variety of buffers which may be set through preferences and ini settings but there is no generic option to limit how much memory SONAR uses from within the application. As a rule SONAR (or any other program) will use as much memory as it needs to run. If your sig is accurate 8 GB may be a little low when using sampled instruments, 16 or 32 GB may provide better performance.
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Keni
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/09/24 18:07:22
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I'm surprized someone hasn't mentioned freeze to deal with plugin load in such a situation.
As I feel satisfied with each track, I freeze it as I can always unfreeze if i want to change it.
By the time I'm tracking vocals, I'm essentially streaming the tracks with just a few plugins on busses...
I do monitor my inputs from the interface so it is essentially the same as tracking to tape. In earlier times I sent a mix from my board with the vocal input and tape/pc playback both occuring there.
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Johnbee58
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/09/25 19:54:53
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bitflipper
Personally, I employ the method most people use, which is to exploit my interface's zero-latency monitoring option and hold off inserting latency-incurring effects until tracking is done.
Kinda like I do mine too, but I don't mute the track I'm recording so there is a bit of latency there between the two signals which results in a bit of reverb or delay. Not much, but enough to spice it up a bit to track vocals. The finished product still sounds in synch (at least enough so). My interface is a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. But I never will understand why with my old interface (Toneport UX2) I can monitor in time with a bit of reverb and have very little trouble with the CPU coughing (My CPU is an i5 and it's a punk). This strikes me odd seeing that the UX2 runs off of the PC power while the Scarlett plugs into the wall AC. Always wondered about that. Maybe somebody here can explain that curiosity. John B.
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Studioguy1
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Re: Sonar Must add real time monitoring and Remover echo feature
2018/09/26 18:34:28
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I hear it in real time through my interface box. Works fine and I can easily adjust the background vs the voice(s) I'm adding.
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