Sonar Platinum Freezing

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werewindle
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2017/05/17 10:56:01 (permalink)

Sonar Platinum Freezing

When I load a project everything is fine but after 2 minutes everything freezes, it appears that cpu 10 is 100% at that is what Sonar is using despite the use multi-core box ticked in preferences.
As soon as Sonar is killed cpu 10 goes back to zero. its a 6 core PC with 12 threads, 64GB RAM, i7 processor running Windows 10.
Anybody got any ideas?
#1

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    tenfoot
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/17 11:27:49 (permalink)
    What sound card and driver mode are you using (asio or wasapi)? There are some issues with dynamic arming that on some systems can cause the performance metres to peg and playback to fail under wasapi exclusive mode. 

    Bruce.
     
    Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
    #2
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/17 12:19:15 (permalink)
    There should be no issues as my backup PC has exactly the same hardware config just less memory and a less powerful i7 processor and Sonar works fine.
    But I placed a support call with Dell they updated the BIOS and it's now running sweet as a nut across the cores. Bit suspicious as it's the 1st thing they tried so might have been a known issue......
    Of course now the creative spark has passed...................................
    #3
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/20 10:52:04 (permalink)
    Okay it's definitely using multi-cores now but once I open up the plug-ins themselves and attempt to make a change the screen freezes once again although Sonar quite happily continues to play the music. This is at the moment a simple project with only 2 tracks but cpu is 26% for Sonar which seems a bit excessive to say the least. My best guess at the moment is that the plug-in is being loaded in a cpu that's already heavily utilised instead of one that's doing nothing in fact the same one SPAT is in.
    #4
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/20 12:12:52 (permalink)
    I have loaded a more complex project and it almost immediately freezes, but if I select close window for Sonar from windows it appears to momentarily in-freeze, BUT nothing is now playing at all and yet SPLAT is showing a cpu usage of 20% what is it doing?
    This looks wrong and maybe the reason I am having issues something is running in the background on SPLAT anybody got any ideas?
    #5
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/20 12:16:10 (permalink)
    Just to confirm SPLAT is showing audio processing of 20%+ and there is no processing supposed to be going on as nothing is playing at all.
    #6
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/20 12:36:49 (permalink)
    Have analysed the threads and there are a whole load of these running.
    ucrtbasedll!o realloc base+&K20 all at around 0.7% which when totalled up takes up 17% of cpu? The rest a pretty small and are plugins at around 0.01% or so the rest are the remaining plugins at <0.01%.
     
    So the question what are these ucrtbasedll!o realloc base+&K20?
     
    #7
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/21 09:28:34 (permalink)
    Have run same project on back-up PC and seeing usage of 13% CPU BUT it appears to be balancing across cores correctly so no freezing occurring.  This still begs the question why on a more powerful PC it is running at a higher CPU rate. Interesting if you uncheck "Plug-in load balancing" the cpu load drops significantly.
     
    #8
    LunaTech
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/21 13:12:52 (permalink)
    Hello,
    In your audio.ini file :
      
    ThreadSchedulingModel=<0 - 2> 
    Type Integer 
    Default 1  

     
    Change this setting to 2 if it is not.
     
    Also is this windows 7 or 10.. If 10 see this link. :
    https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207355205-Optimising-your-PC-for-Audio-on-Windows-10
     
    It was very helpful for my new build  Thanks
     

    "Life could capture me with songs of innocence...
    And enrapture me with pleasures galore...
    Suddenly it could all quickly fade away...
    But I'm not surprised any more...."

    Sonar Platinum Pro- Win 10 64- I7 6800k - Asus - 32gb DDR4-SB ZX sound card (cd output to mixer)- Toshiba 960gb SSD (OS - Audio APPs)- 4TB Seagate (Storage/ App Content)- M-Audio Keystation 88 Pro - Akai MPD 232 - Zed R16 - PT 12 - A&H QU 24- Axiom 61 - XD 80usb
     
    "When He is all you have, He is everything you need"
    #9
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/21 13:44:35 (permalink)
    Thanks for the advice will give it a try, in any case I have also now allowed SPLAT to use the overclock option for the cores so that should give me some headroom.
    #10
    bitflipper
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/21 14:24:55 (permalink)
    ucrtbase.dll is part of the C runtime library, which in turn is part of Windows. I wouldn't be surprised if the problem ultimately turns out to be a plugin that doesn't play well with load balancing.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #11
    vladasyn
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/21 15:21:07 (permalink)
    You should not worry about overclock option or processor. This is not likely the processor issue. I will bet on bad or corrupted plugin. Load Sonar in Safe mode. Don't remember how, but it will load Sonar without plugins. Then go ahead and unable one plugin at a time. When it crashes, you will know what caused it. Also look in plugin manager what plugins it finds after the scan. Also if your processor overtclocked, make it back to stock settings.

    https://soundcloud.com/vlada-astral 
    http://vladasyn.wix.com/astral#
    I am a female. Windows 8.1
    Custom DAW Intel Core I7 3770K, 16 Gb memory, SSD+ 2 x 2 Gb storage. Presonus StudioLive 24.
      Multiple keyboards and modules, software synths.  
    #12
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/22 06:19:36 (permalink)
    Thanks plug-ins may be the underlying issue as I loaded just my template and that was running at 19% CPU. As this is the replacement PC for the one that went into meltdown there might be some plug-ins that have yet to be activated  so have started walking through each one and checking. At least while working on template I have room to manoeuvre there were some that caused issues previously but those were not installed initially.
    I would suspect the PC but it runs high performance games without raising a sweat.
     
    For info.
    Windows 10 64 bit (one build behind latest), i7-68000K 3.4GHZ CPU(4.0GHz overclocked) 6 core 12 logical processors
    64GB RAM, Dual GTX-1080 graphics, ZxR DB Pro soundcard. 1.4TB of SSD and 6TB of SATA.
     
    The backup PC is a Windows 10 64 bit latest build a less powerful i7 3.4GHz 6 cores core 12 logical processors, 32GB RAM single less powerful GTX graphics card and same soundcard, and 1,256GB of SSD and 4TB of SATA.
    More plugin-ins on backup (the troublesome ones) and all external hardware midi keyboards, console 1 and mixers etc.can be connected to either.
    #13
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/05/23 14:20:40 (permalink)
    At last getting an insight into part of the problem. Sonar always loaded in cpu 10 for some reason and then I spotted when excel was in cpu 10 it also was slower. So removed the affinity for Sonar to use cpu 10 & 11 and hey Presto running at over 20% but balanced across other cpus. So we have a hardware fault on core 5 which also explains why I`m seeing higher cpu on this pc as not all cores are running. Now to invoke warranty and get my liquid cooled processor replaced.
    #14
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/08 13:01:16 (permalink)
    Done further testing and SPLAT is happily playing my midi instrument sounds are coming out etc. , but the screen is frozen. There is plenty of CPU even in the processor SPLAT is running in so it starting to look like an incompatibility with the NVidia Dual GTX-1080 graphics card, at least there is no other common denominator between the 2 replacement PC's. Anyone using same graphics cards? 

    Sonar: Platinum & Studio One 3
    Production PC: Intel i7-6950x 10 cores (20 processors) CPU @ 3.00GHz (with overclock to 3.60GHz), RAM 64GB, Windows 10 - 64 bit, Sound Blaster ZxR Pro, Dual Nvidia GTX1080 with 2 widescreen Monitors
    MIDI: Akai Advance 49, Roland A-500Pro, Akai MPD230, Softube Console 1, Akai EWI USB, Roli Seaboard 25
    Instruments: Martin D12X1AE Dreadnought - 12 string, Martin Ed Sheeran X Signature Edition, Fender Standard Precision-Bass Black MN, Gibson Custom Shop EDS-1275 Cherry (12 & 6 string dual)
    #15
    bitflipper
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/08 13:31:04 (permalink)
    Some plugins use your GPU, not for its intended function but as a parallel CPU. It's great when it works, but some video adapters (GeForce in particular) can have problems with it. Waves, FabFilter and Meldaproduction all do it, and all of them have had issues in the past with specific video cards. I don't know of any soft synths that do, but I'm just not that big a synth guy.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #16
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/08 15:01:02 (permalink)
    Trouble is this is happening on a basic template with one instrument. But there are reported issues to do with stuttering occurring on the video card so will raise a support ticket with NVidia.

    Sonar: Platinum & Studio One 3
    Production PC: Intel i7-6950x 10 cores (20 processors) CPU @ 3.00GHz (with overclock to 3.60GHz), RAM 64GB, Windows 10 - 64 bit, Sound Blaster ZxR Pro, Dual Nvidia GTX1080 with 2 widescreen Monitors
    MIDI: Akai Advance 49, Roland A-500Pro, Akai MPD230, Softube Console 1, Akai EWI USB, Roli Seaboard 25
    Instruments: Martin D12X1AE Dreadnought - 12 string, Martin Ed Sheeran X Signature Edition, Fender Standard Precision-Bass Black MN, Gibson Custom Shop EDS-1275 Cherry (12 & 6 string dual)
    #17
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/09 07:27:26 (permalink)
    Now I've entered the Twilight Zone. There was a new driver update for Nvidia which I installed and for some reason caused a system restart.
    I then did exactly what I did yesterday with SPLAT and 2 things happened.
    1. No freezing at all (okay maybe Nvidia have fixed the stutter bug)
    2. SPLAT from consistently using 4%CPU yesterday has now dropped so low it's not measurable (Twilight Zone)
    Even loaded 2 instruments and pinned both and everything is still stable.
    Just need a reality check now so making sure Hilary Clinton is still president and we voted to remain in EU...........

    Sonar: Platinum & Studio One 3
    Production PC: Intel i7-6950x 10 cores (20 processors) CPU @ 3.00GHz (with overclock to 3.60GHz), RAM 64GB, Windows 10 - 64 bit, Sound Blaster ZxR Pro, Dual Nvidia GTX1080 with 2 widescreen Monitors
    MIDI: Akai Advance 49, Roland A-500Pro, Akai MPD230, Softube Console 1, Akai EWI USB, Roli Seaboard 25
    Instruments: Martin D12X1AE Dreadnought - 12 string, Martin Ed Sheeran X Signature Edition, Fender Standard Precision-Bass Black MN, Gibson Custom Shop EDS-1275 Cherry (12 & 6 string dual)
    #18
    bitflipper
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/09 14:33:06 (permalink)
    If you're basing your CPU percentage on SONAR's CPU meter, that's misleading. It doesn't really display how much CPU SONAR is using, but rather how long it takes SONAR to fill the audio buffers. It's still a useful indicator of how close you are to maxing out your CPU, but it's a number that can be affected by other things that are going on in the system.
     
    So no, you're not in the Twilight Zone. The White House Science Committee is still a roomful of empty chairs.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #19
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/09 15:47:35 (permalink)
    No I`m using lasso pro to monitor the entire system, what is interesting is that if I load another program and leave it open on the monitor SPLAT usage goes up to 1 - 2% which seems to imply the GPU is passing back some of it`s processing to the main CPU. Definitely looking like a driver issue on the GTX 1080 with SLI enabled and there are still a few bugs according to internet. Anyway at least SPLAT is now working properly so time to get the mixes done.

    Sonar: Platinum & Studio One 3
    Production PC: Intel i7-6950x 10 cores (20 processors) CPU @ 3.00GHz (with overclock to 3.60GHz), RAM 64GB, Windows 10 - 64 bit, Sound Blaster ZxR Pro, Dual Nvidia GTX1080 with 2 widescreen Monitors
    MIDI: Akai Advance 49, Roland A-500Pro, Akai MPD230, Softube Console 1, Akai EWI USB, Roli Seaboard 25
    Instruments: Martin D12X1AE Dreadnought - 12 string, Martin Ed Sheeran X Signature Edition, Fender Standard Precision-Bass Black MN, Gibson Custom Shop EDS-1275 Cherry (12 & 6 string dual)
    #20
    bitflipper
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/10 12:58:26 (permalink)
    Do you use Lasso's load balancing features, or are you just using it as a process monitor?


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #21
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/10 13:25:27 (permalink)
    Both I've already adjusted Sonar cpu priority to "Above Normal" & I/O Priority to "High" RAM is not an issue and have removed affinity for processor 18 which by default windows appears to start initial load. Ticket has now been raised with Nvidia as I have same issue with AKAI VIP. 1st solution to decouple SLI has made no difference.

    Sonar: Platinum & Studio One 3
    Production PC: Intel i7-6950x 10 cores (20 processors) CPU @ 3.00GHz (with overclock to 3.60GHz), RAM 64GB, Windows 10 - 64 bit, Sound Blaster ZxR Pro, Dual Nvidia GTX1080 with 2 widescreen Monitors
    MIDI: Akai Advance 49, Roland A-500Pro, Akai MPD230, Softube Console 1, Akai EWI USB, Roli Seaboard 25
    Instruments: Martin D12X1AE Dreadnought - 12 string, Martin Ed Sheeran X Signature Edition, Fender Standard Precision-Bass Black MN, Gibson Custom Shop EDS-1275 Cherry (12 & 6 string dual)
    #22
    bitflipper
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/10 14:53:51 (permalink)
    Just a (perhaps unrelated) thought...once upon a time, back when I was running a 2-core Pentium and often pushing it to its limits, I was in the habit of boosting SONAR's priority. But then Noel posted an opinion suggesting that MMCSS made this unnecessary and that it could even be detrimental. Noel is quite the expert when it comes to CPU optimization under Windows, having put a lot of work into mostly-invisible tweaks such as priority inversion detection and thread balancing, so I trust his advice.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #23
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/10 15:39:08 (permalink)
    I  wouldn't want to disagree with Noel and he is probably right, but at the moment just trying to diagnose issue so want to rule out any cpu or I/O throttling going on in background.
    Will almost certainly reset them back to normal assuming I get confirmation of a NVidia driver issue. As I also am experiencing a slightly subtler effect with Excel have been adjusting its performance.
    Certainly going for bitsum high availability has no effect on SPLAT but does help in gaming.

    Sonar: Platinum & Studio One 3
    Production PC: Intel i7-6950x 10 cores (20 processors) CPU @ 3.00GHz (with overclock to 3.60GHz), RAM 64GB, Windows 10 - 64 bit, Sound Blaster ZxR Pro, Dual Nvidia GTX1080 with 2 widescreen Monitors
    MIDI: Akai Advance 49, Roland A-500Pro, Akai MPD230, Softube Console 1, Akai EWI USB, Roli Seaboard 25
    Instruments: Martin D12X1AE Dreadnought - 12 string, Martin Ed Sheeran X Signature Edition, Fender Standard Precision-Bass Black MN, Gibson Custom Shop EDS-1275 Cherry (12 & 6 string dual)
    #24
    Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/10 16:29:56 (permalink)
    If this is a system you put together I hope you did the typical burn-in/memory/hw level tests before putting it into production.  
    We had a user with some random troubles that came down to bad memory.  Memory tests failed and it was a very powerful system but with off brand RAM.
     
    Keith

    Keith
    #25
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/10 17:17:36 (permalink)
    No it's a Dell built system.

    Sonar: Platinum & Studio One 3
    Production PC: Intel i7-6950x 10 cores (20 processors) CPU @ 3.00GHz (with overclock to 3.60GHz), RAM 64GB, Windows 10 - 64 bit, Sound Blaster ZxR Pro, Dual Nvidia GTX1080 with 2 widescreen Monitors
    MIDI: Akai Advance 49, Roland A-500Pro, Akai MPD230, Softube Console 1, Akai EWI USB, Roli Seaboard 25
    Instruments: Martin D12X1AE Dreadnought - 12 string, Martin Ed Sheeran X Signature Edition, Fender Standard Precision-Bass Black MN, Gibson Custom Shop EDS-1275 Cherry (12 & 6 string dual)
    #26
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/17 08:34:56 (permalink)
    Latest update from NVIDIA:
    Please change the following settings in the NVIDIA Control Panel Global Settings under "Manage 3D Settings”:
    • Change the 'Power Management Mode' to 'Prefer Maximum Performance'.
    Also try changing the below mentioned settings
    - Please try changing the performance mode of all the applications. Below are the instructions for the same.
    - Open NVIDIA Control Panel --> Manage 3D settings.
    - Go to Program Settings tab.
    - Add the .exe file of each application by clicking on Add button.
    - In the setting window, change the 'Power Management Mode' to 'Prefer Maximum Performance'.
    - Click on Save and restart the Computer.
    - Run the program and check.

    Sonar: Platinum & Studio One 3
    Production PC: Intel i7-6950x 10 cores (20 processors) CPU @ 3.00GHz (with overclock to 3.60GHz), RAM 64GB, Windows 10 - 64 bit, Sound Blaster ZxR Pro, Dual Nvidia GTX1080 with 2 widescreen Monitors
    MIDI: Akai Advance 49, Roland A-500Pro, Akai MPD230, Softube Console 1, Akai EWI USB, Roli Seaboard 25
    Instruments: Martin D12X1AE Dreadnought - 12 string, Martin Ed Sheeran X Signature Edition, Fender Standard Precision-Bass Black MN, Gibson Custom Shop EDS-1275 Cherry (12 & 6 string dual)
    #27
    interpolated
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/07/17 09:23:15 (permalink)
    What I've found is no matter what you do on your PC, always run some benchmarks, stress test before you even start to do anything serious. If I ever get the funds and the time to build myself that near-silent SSD and NVRAM based PC with passive cooling, I'll still do that.
     

    I have computer stuff.
     
    https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
    #28
    werewindle
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/09/18 07:14:20 (permalink)
    I have now run a series of identical tests on the SPLAT over a period of time. Each time SPLAT is closed after 15 minutes and changes not saved.
    PC on for less than an hour no issues.
    2 hours later observing the odd stutter in the graphics.
    1 hour later significant delays occur up to 3 minutes to respond to a click on screen, then a period of no freezing and then freezing again. Now impossible to drag objects on screen.
    1 hour later only managed to get the app to start playback of a track before complete graphics froze, track still playing. In fact only way out was to terminate SPLAT from task manager.
    In all the above there was spare cpu on all processors (19 as 18 had affinity removed), no evidence of additional or forced paging, Total RAM around 10%  SPLAT holding around 7.5GB committed memory. SPLAT under the hood graphics appeared still to be working as expected. i.e Track still playing quite happily
    As this is definitely not a SONAR issue so now having to fail over to back-up PC which means as keyboards are 6 feet away an issue but thanks to Craig’s article have purchased a Dragonfly to assist in recording etc.
    If I ever get a resolution will update thread again

    Sonar: Platinum & Studio One 3
    Production PC: Intel i7-6950x 10 cores (20 processors) CPU @ 3.00GHz (with overclock to 3.60GHz), RAM 64GB, Windows 10 - 64 bit, Sound Blaster ZxR Pro, Dual Nvidia GTX1080 with 2 widescreen Monitors
    MIDI: Akai Advance 49, Roland A-500Pro, Akai MPD230, Softube Console 1, Akai EWI USB, Roli Seaboard 25
    Instruments: Martin D12X1AE Dreadnought - 12 string, Martin Ed Sheeran X Signature Edition, Fender Standard Precision-Bass Black MN, Gibson Custom Shop EDS-1275 Cherry (12 & 6 string dual)
    #29
    chuckebaby
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    Re: Sonar Platinum Freezing 2017/09/18 12:02:16 (permalink)
    Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
    If this is a system you put together I hope you did the typical burn-in/memory/hw level tests before putting it into production.  
    We had a user with some random troubles that came down to bad memory.  Memory tests failed and it was a very powerful system but with off brand RAM.
     
    Keith


    I made the same mistake once myself. built a high end system and tried to cut corners buying mid grade RAM.
    It was the root of all evil. Couldn't figure out where my issue was coming from until I did a mem test.
    Swapped it out with high end Corsair and haven't had an issue since (almost 2 years now).

    Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
    Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
    Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
       
    #30
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