Sonar Platinum: Waves DiGiGrid IOS / StudioRack Not Working in Busses

Hello all,
 
I have the Waves DiGiGrid IOS and use it with Sonar Platinum.  Since build v9r11 of their driver, I have not been able to load plugins in StudioRack and have them run from the IOS' server.  However, they will work fine when loaded locally.  The meters won't function and audio output either doesn't work or is not affected by the plugin when the plugins are running from the IOS' server.  StudioRack seems to work fine in other channels / tracks.  This bug has been reported to Waves, but I was curious if anything on Cakewalk's side is affecting it.  I understand Cakewalk may have a fix coming soon, so I wanted to verify this.  I was able to reproduce this tonight with the latest build of Sonar Platinum.
 
Your input is appreciated.

Best,
Stephen Salazar

Although I have not tested this throughly, anyone out there having this problem should try upgrading to the March 23rd release of Waves installs.  They seem to have corrected the issue, as I'm able to run my Waves plugins via SoundGrid using busses again.
 
Best,
Stephen Salazar

Hi Mark,
 
It looks like I jumped the gun.  I saw that audio was being passed through when the SoundGrid plugins were activated on the IOS server from busses...I even heard that it was the plugin-processed sound, so I was under the impression it was working.  However, I started to notice glitching when I tested today, as if it was dropping out and had a jittery, static-like quality to the sound.  With all of my Waves plugins in StudioRack inserts configured to load from the SoundGrid server, I saved a new copy of my project file.  I reopened the new copy and noticed the problem was still present where audio would not pass through the StudioRack plugins in busses (no audio / no meter activity).  Therefore, I'll be writing Waves / DiGiGrid again for an update on when it will be fixed.  Please note that it's fine to run StudioRack plugins for tracks...the problem just exists in the busses.  This did NOT happen until v9r11 of the driver.  I'm hoping they can get the driver and firmware issue resolved soon (especially considering I'm paying for the WUP).
 
My project is set at an 88.2 K sampling rate.  When I don't have the StudioRack plugins switched to the IOS server in busses, I'm able to mix with the following settings in Soundgrid Studio:
WSG Processing:  112 Samples / 1.3 ms
Soundgrid Driver Buffer (Network) 208
Soundgrid Driver Buffer (ASIO) 256
 
One thing to consider is you'll have to experiment with the buffer settings that work for you.  When I had all of the StudioRack plugins running from the IOS, I couldn't get audio to playback without glitching unless I raised my network buffer to the maximum setting (1088) and ASIO at 512.  Of course, this is with the problematic bus plugins running from the IOS, so I'm curious how that will be once the problem is fixed.  Although the StudioRacks in the busses won't produce audio or visuals on the meters unless I run them locally from my computer, I'm still able to load quite a few plugins in the tracks with StudioRacks.
 
Performance:
There's a little delay getting the audio engine active.  You've probably seen it in the demo videos posted on Waves / DiGiGrid websites.  Also, opening more than one StudioRack at a time may cause a dropout in Sonar, but this requires experimenting with the buffer settings.  Once you have the right settings, the engine stays pretty stable and the dropouts become less of a problem.  Dropouts usually don't occur during playback.  I don't have all of my Waves (or other third-party plugins) loaded in StudioRacks.  I've outlined this below to give you an example of what I'm doing with the hardware I use.  The IOS still has voices and DSP to work with, and I'm still learning how to use it efficiently.
 
Project Files:
10 stereo tracks
8 mono tracks
Drum parts are currently frozen from Superior Drummer 2 (which works with virtually no latency when tracking from my electronic kit).
 
Plugins:
* Bass drum (StudioRack Stereo on IOS with Scheps 73, Kramer Tape, and RCompressor) + TS-64 Transient Shaper
* Snare Top and Bottom sent to a bus (StudioRack Stereo in the bus currently running locally with Kramer Drums...perhaps unnecessarily in the StudioRack due to the bus issue) + TS-64 Transient Shaper
* Hi-Hats (JJP-Cymb & Perc...no StudioRack)
* Toms (StudioRack Stereo on IOS with CLA Drums, Aphex Aural Exciter, and Q1)
* Overheads (JJP-Cymb & Perc, DeEsser, and Q4...no StudioRack)
* Drum Room (Scheps 73, DeEsser, and Q4 - no StudioRack)
* Bass (StudioRack Stereo on IOS with C6-SC (sidechained with bass drums and snares), CLA Bass, REQ 4, dbx-160, and MaxxBass) + Devil-Loc Deluxe
* Guitars (Manny Marroquin EQ on 2 tracks)
* Guitar Solo (Manny Marroquin EQ, RCompressor, H-Delay, DeEsser, Aphex Aural Exciter, and Vitamin...no StudioRack)
* All drums sent to parallel compression bus (StudioRack Stereo currently running locally with H-Comp)
* Lead vocals to StudioRack Stereo in BUS currently running locally with Butch Vig Vocals, CLA Vocals, RVox, DeEsser, and Aphex Aural Exciter)
* Harmony vocals to StudioRack Stereo in BUS currently running locally with Butch Vig Vocals, Manny Marroquin Reverb, DeEsser, and Aphex Aural Exciter) + Eventide H3000 Factory
* Guitars sent to bus for parallel compression (CLA-76 and OneKnob Phatter...no StudioRack)
* L2 temporarily on the Master (no StudioRack)
 
I realize I can move some of those plugins in the tracks to StudioRack, but I'm doing a balancing act with performance and trying not to overload the IOS.  I may eventually decided to use the StudioRacks exclusively for tracks to get around not being able to use them in busses while still making good use of the IOS.  My CPU meter in Sonar is barely peaking, so I know I can get away with opening more plugins that run off my CPU.
 
One thing about the DiGiGrid IOS...it's super flexible, routing-wise.  Also, I can load plugins for tracking with no noticeable latency, which is great for when you want to hear a little reverb on your voice or other instruments.  There are many ways to accomplish this, too, including loading those plugins from eMotion ST on the IOS server, which is nice.  It took a while to wrap my head around the routing options of the IOS, but once I figured it out, I realized I could configure it exactly the way I wanted.  It's a great sounding and useful product.  It just has a few issues with Sonar at the moment.
 
System:
ASUS X99-A with gigabit Ethernet
ASUS ThunderboltEX II (installed, but not currently in use)
Intel Core i7-5960X @ 3.0 GHz (Haswell 8-core)
Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM (32 GB)
Samsung XP941 512 GB SSD system drive
2 Western Digital 500 GB Velociraptors for audio and sample drives
XFX TSK Multipli X54 display card (AMD Radeon HD 5450)
Corsair Obsidian 550D with Corsair Pro Series 860 Watt PS (AX860i)
Noctua NH-D15 Premium CPU Cooler
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
 
I figured you wanted some details, so this might give you an idea.
 
Best,
Stephen Salazar
 
 
 
 

Hey Stephen,
Thanks for the detailed response.
It appears you would have a very CPU intensive workflow if not for the IOS.  I'm vacillating on the purchase simply for the fact that I use a lot of non-SoundGrid plugs (ie., SoundToys, Slate, Kush Clariphonic and Pusher, etc.)
However, I love using the Waves SSL channels and CLA compressors on practically every channel and busses, and I run a lot of busses/auxes.  My template is:
Master
Sub
Music
Vocals
FX
Room
Drums
Toms
Toms Verb
Kick/snare crush
NYC compression
Percussion/Loops
Bass
Bass crush
El Guitars
El guitars Spring verb
Acoustic gtrs
Keys
Aural Exciter
Slap
Vox Echo
Vox Spring
Each with SSL or ProChannel running on them.
 
Along with that my sessions usually run about 36-42 tracks with 14 channels of drums, 3 channels of bass (DI, amp and distortion for bite), lots of guitars, keys, vocals, (lead and double tracks) bgvs, percussion and loops.
As you can see I need all the CPU and memory I can get and started looking into the SoundGrid system to help with that.
By the time I'm finishing a demo Sonar is limping pretty badly and I hate rendering because I'm often asked to recall a mix I did weeks earlier.
But, creativity is borne from limitations I guess.
Good chatting.
Mark.
 
 

On the new i7-6700 skylake processor, a resource hog like Ozone 7 barely registers at all. I've yet to find a situation that has maxed it out yet (at least not on purpose).

Hi all,
 
After months of dealing with this, Waves told me today that Sonar is not officially supported with the DiGiGrid IOS, and they will not be prioritizing any bug fixes for it.  Therefore, anyone thinking about purchasing one should realize that you may have problems offloading your plugins to the SoundGrid server.
 
Waves actually suggested moving to another DAW.  I've been a long-time Cakewalk and Waves user, so the thought of moving to something else doesn't really excite me, especially since I paid into lifetime updates for Platinum.  I don't think my problem is due to a lack of resources:

ASUS X99-A
Intel Core i7-5960X Haswell-E 8-Core 3.0GHz
32 GB of RAM
Samsung MZHPU512HCGL SSD System Drive
WD Velociraptors for project audio and samples
 
I've submitted support requests to Cakewalk (including a bug fix request, in case Platinum had compatibility issues with it), but Cakewalk have not responded to or addressed anything.  I still suspect the problem is with a change Waves made in their drivers starting with v9r11.  I'm otherwise happy with the IOS interface, so (unfortunately) I will most likely be testing another DAW.  I'm not sure of any audio interfaces that are comparable to the IOS, and the Clarett 8PreX still does not appear to have Windows drivers.
 
Best,
Stephen Salazar
 

Waves got back to me and said they were able to reproduce the problem.  Sonar is still not officially supported, but it works as expected.  The best workaround is to use Waves plugins that are CPU-intensive and offload them to your computer's CPU (it seems a lot of the artist bundles fall under that category).  Adding lower intensity plugins in StudioRacks and offloading them to the SoundGrid Server is a better way to approach using the DiGiGrid IOS.  I've requested for Waves to update the list of plugin benchmarks on their site to get a better idea of how the higher intensity plugins tax resources.
 
I hope this information helps.
 
Best,
Stephen Salazar

Recent updates were supposed to address overall performance issues, but I think it really comes down to how you use some of the artist plugins (such as those from Manny Marroquin, Butch Vig, and Chris Lord-Alge).  There wasn't a lot of data on the Waves site at the time showing how well their servers handle some of these plugins.   I suspect they are system-intensive and are probably not going to work well with a large project with lots of plugins loaded on a server like the IOS.  If you're loading the lower-intensity plugins (based on Waves' comparison charts), server performance should be dramatically better.  I'm just learning to balance plugins I load on the server vs. plugins I load from my computer's CPU, and I'm finding that's a pretty good compromise.
 
By the way, Cubase is officially supported by Waves for the IOS interface / server.  Sonar is not.  However, it still works.  The only major thing that doesn't work has more to do with the fact that Sonar doesn't support Mackie HUI, which would be super helpful, but it's definitely not required.
 
I kind of wish the server was a bit more stout, as the processor could have been faster, and more RAM would have been a plus.  I will say that the interface sounds great, and its software gives you a ton of control over how you route audio.  It's pretty impressive.
 
Best,
Stephen Salazar