raisindot
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Sonar Producer 8: Separate hard disk for audio data needed?
Hi, folks. Just updated from Producer 6 to 8.3.1. I also moved from my old Pentium 4, where I kept Sonar on the main hard disk and all audio and MIDI date on a separate slave disk, to my new HP Pavillion Pentium Dual Core with 6gig RAM. Since the new hard disk has 640gig, I really didn't want to have to install the old slave drive. I figured that the speed, processor upgrade, and extra RAM of the new PC would eliminate the latency/drop issues I'd get on the old machine, which had only 1gig RAM. I also hate the extra motor noise that having two separate drives going at the same time generates. So I've moved all the files from the slave drive to the HP's main drive. I haven't done much work with it (spent all night installing the software), but wondered whether it should be okay, given that I don't use many softsynths or effects in my work. Would it also be more efficient if I partitioned the hard drive to create a separate partition just for the audio files? Jeff in Boston
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Guitarmech111
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Re:Sonar Producer 8: Separate hard disk for audio data needed?
2009/09/03 10:31:49
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I have always kept my audio drive separate from my program drive as a practice. Need? It depends on what you are doing with your computer and how fast it is.
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studio24
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Re:Sonar Producer 8: Separate hard disk for audio data needed?
2009/09/03 10:36:37
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The disk I/O performance is dominated by the sustained read/write rate and the sizes of cache/buffers. The sustained read/write rates are largely determined by the rotation speed of the platter (7200 RPMs being the minimum I would run). The number of read/write heads and actuators play into this as well. As such, the conventional wisdom is to have a completely separate drive .. not partitioned, but separate ... for audio / video streaming. The reason is that the OS, programs, and VM page file may be in contention with the continuous streaming that the DAW is either fetching or writing to disk (oft times both are happening). If you're running a few tracks at a lower sample rate (48kHz), it's entirely possible that you'll be able to run on a single disk just fine. But, if you ever wish to do many tracks and higher sample rates, a dedicated audio drive is a must. Please note that a partition of a single physical drive does very little to improve disk performance. The most it does is to make it a little easier to find free blocks (since it not in contention with the general OS and other programs). For my own usage (since I'm constantly taking projects from studio to home studio), I use Glyph drives (FW800). Hope that helps, jeff
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bitflipper
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Re:Sonar Producer 8: Separate hard disk for audio data needed?
2009/09/03 11:57:35
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Would it also be more efficient if I partitioned the hard drive to create a separate partition just for the audio files? Nope. Here's the deal: the slowest activity that a disk drive performs is called a seek, meaning the action of physically positioning the head over the desired track in preparation for reading and writing data. Compared to reading and writing data, seeking happens on a glacial timeframe. Minimizing seek times is therefore the single most important technique for speeding up disk drives. That's why you defrag a disk, so that pieces of large files are physically near one another, thereby reducing seek times. Once the head makes it to the track, data can be sucked off the disk quite rapidly. But once the track's been read (or written), then the head needs to seek again to the next file fragment and everything slows to a crawl again. Because drives have multiple heads, it can read more than one track before it has to move the heads again. So when data is written, all the heads are used sequentially. A group of tracks that can be read or written from the same head position is called a cylinder (from back when you had one head per platter surface, so that a vertical set of tracks formed a cylinder). The larger the cylinder, the more data that can be moved between seeks. When you partition a drive, you're making smaller cylinders. Partitioning makes sense only for higher-level data organization and not for efficiency, which actually suffers. For maximum speed, you should always make the entire drive one partition. Whenever a program must access multiple files concurrently, it has to do a lot of seeking as it furiously bounces from one file's physical location to another's. But if those files are separated onto different drives, each having its own set of read-write heads, one drive can be seeking while another is reading or writing data. Fewer seeks, faster performance. Bottom line: use multiple physical drives, each formatted into a single partition.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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syntheticpop
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Re:Sonar Producer 8: Separate hard disk for audio data needed?
2009/09/03 12:11:59
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you nailed it bit! one hard drive won't get it done. so bit, I assume its also better to have separate drives for your audio and samples. i'm thinking about getting one external drive for my laptop for recording my audio and also for my samples - would this be like the same thing as using just one hard drive for everything?
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CakeFan
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Re:Sonar Producer 8: Separate hard disk for audio data needed?
2009/09/03 12:19:18
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Thanks Bitflipper! That was interesting...and thanks for the detail. You explained some stuff I had wondered about before.
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ryanformato
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Re:Sonar Producer 8: Separate hard disk for audio data needed?
2009/09/03 12:49:53
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Are there any suggested Internal / USB External harddrives that would help? I only have one harddrive as well and would like to get better performance (although I do have a quad core).
post edited by ryanformato - 2009/09/03 12:55:30
www.ryanformato.com Shred Guitarist & Musician Quad 9450, 8 gigs of Ram, Vista Ultimate, EMU 1820M, Windows XP SP2, Studio Projects T3, C4 (matched pair) AKG Drum Mics, Adam A7 Monitors, Great River Preamp, Behringer ADA800, SONAR 8 Producer
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wetdentist
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Re:Sonar Producer 8: Separate hard disk for audio data needed?
2009/09/03 13:01:13
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they say internal SATA is the way to go, so that's the way i went, and it is all good.
3.5 Ghz AMD 6-Core/16 gigs RAM, Roland Quad-Capture, Win 10, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Komplete 10, z3ta+, Z3TA+ 2, Rapture, Maschine 2.7 (MKI & Jam), Melodyne 4 Studio, Ozone 4, Jam Origin MIDI Guitar 2, Schecter Damien Elite, Fender Sonoran w/TronicalTune Plus installed, etc go here to hear Wet Dentist (2000-2016 RIP) my new sounds: The Das Kaput
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daveny5
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Re:Sonar Producer 8: Separate hard disk for audio data needed?
2009/09/03 14:15:16
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raisindot Would it also be more efficient if I partitioned the hard drive to create a separate partition just for the audio files? Jeff in Boston You shouldn't need separate drives for program and data unless you have a slow drive (5400 RPM). Its recommended, but not required. I would not put multiple partitions on the drive. It doesn't improve the performance one bit.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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raja
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Re: Sonar Producer 8: Separate hard disk for audio data needed?
2014/01/21 13:19:11
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Bitflipper, I've been trying to learn more about your statement in a post on separate audio drives from 2009. You said: "When you partition a drive, you're making smaller cylinders. Partitioning makes sense only for higher-level data organization and not for efficiency, which actually suffers. For maximum speed, you should always make the entire drive one partition." I've been trying to research this, but I can't find anywhere that "partitioning a drive makes smaller cylinders". If I understand correctly, a cylinder is made up of tracks that are lined up vertically underneath each other on the platters. Partitions are created in horizontal concentric circles on all platters, moving from the outside to the inside of the platters. So how would making a partition reduce the size of the cylinders? As far as I can see, it would only reduce the number of cylinders, not the size. I understand that it's not good to have frequently accessed data on two separate partitions, because this would cause the seek heads to shuttle back and forth between the partitions, thereby slowing performance. But what about if you had frequently addressed data on the outside partition, like audio data, but the other, inside partition you used only for storage and backups? You would never be using both partitions at the same time, so I can't see how this would degrade performance . . . unless you are right about cylinder size being reduced. Can you please clarify? Thanks
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sonar Producer 8: Separate hard disk for audio data needed?
2014/01/21 20:28:45
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I'd be interested too, I have my main 1TB 7200 RPM sata drive partitioned into my C drive ( 100 Gigs) for just software and all my Sonar files and other data stuff are on the 850 GIG partition. I have a second 500 Gig drive that is just storage and back up. Never had a HD performance issue, but then again, I never go beyond 16 tracks of audio. My understanding was a partition was basically invisible to the system. The only reason I made the partition was on the off chance I would need to re-install my OS. Data stays put.
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bitflipper
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Re: Sonar Producer 8: Separate hard disk for audio data needed?
2014/01/21 23:32:13
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The term "cylinder" is a holdover from the old days when you had one head for each surface. Back then, the logical organization really could be visualized as cylindrical. Partitions were horizontal slices of cylinders. Nowadays, of course, you have multiple heads for each platter, so there isn't anything truly cylindrical about it anymore. The underlying concept, however, is still valid. Although the multiple read/write heads can function independently, they are all still attached to a common arm and move together, even though they may be positioned over disparate logical partitions. When reading data, each head reads a portion of the "cylinder" in sequence. Then the heads are moved to the next physical location. Seeking is the most expensive operation a drive can perform, so the fewer the number of seeks the faster you get the data. The larger the partition, the more heads are involved in reading data before the next seek, and the more data you can move before physically re-positioning the head assembly. Hope that makes sense. Believe it or not, I once taught the subject to field engineers! But it's been a long time since the days when I sat on a computer room floor with a dismantled washing-machine sized 300MB CDC drive.
post edited by bitflipper - 2014/01/21 23:33:42
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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