Sonar Producer 8.5 / M-Audio Delta 44 - Compatibility

If anyone can provide insight on this it would be greatly appreciated.
 
I'm have tried WDM/KS and ASIO (also... WASAPI and MME).
I get on of these depending on which combination of settings I pick:
1. distorted input monitoring,
2. an error message that says unable to open audio device, audio card does not support current recording format.
3. it doesn't recognize my usb recording device.
 
++++++++++++++++
I have a quad core 2.5ghz processor w/ 8 gig ram
win 7 64-bit
cakewalk sonar 8.5 (producer)
Delta 44 PCI audio card.
Boss GT-10
 
--I tried to buy the right gear, so I'm hoping it's just configuration.
does anyone have a solution or suggestions?
Thanks very much!
these forums are great!!
            Scottie
 

I used to have a Delta 44 working with Sonar, albeit 8.3 but I'd be very, very surprised if it wasn't compatible because of a version change.

First thing I'd do is chack that you have the latest drivers installed and in the Options->Audio menu make sure that the drivers are selected correctly. Start with ASIO and then try WDM, keeping notes on problems associated with each choice. It's easier for people to help you diagnose what messages/problems you are getting with your choices

1. distorted input monitoring,

Do you mean what you monitor is distorted but the recorded signal is okay? Either way that could be your levels too hot. IIRC there's a virtual mixer with the Delta where you can adjust incoming levels etc. Make sure they are okay.

2. an error message that says unable to open audio device, audio card does not support current recording format.

That sounds like you may have selected a sample rate too high for the delta. I can't remember the rates the delta supports but check that first. The rate is set in Sonar at Options->Audio->General tab about half way down.

3. it doesn't recognize my usb recording device.

The Delta isn't USB is it? I can't remember for sure but I thought it was PCI based. If that's the case it may be an installation error but if you can see the Delta as a choice in the Options->Audio->Drivers Tab it must be installed okay. You don't have a second interface at all? If so disable/unplug that. It's probably worth at the diagnosis stage of unplugging any USB devices anyway.

Perhaps someone currently using a Delta 44 with 8.5 will be of more help as I'm working from a somewhat hazy memory.

I also had input monitoring distorton problems when I started using my 2496 card on a Vista 64 machine.  Disabling the network adapters in the Device Manager solved the problem.

Scottie,

When you say "distorted input monitoring" what exactly do you mean? Is it an audio source (mic, guitar, external synth, etc.,) or internal softsynths?

Thanks very much for all the input.... I will print them all and go through them carefully.

I had also submitted a tech support request to Sonar, but haven't heard anything back yet,
so I'm glad you all have responded.

on the usb comment.... sorry, it must be the way I worded it.
I didn't mean to say the delta 44 was usb... 'cause I know it's not.
I meant that using the delta 44 as my only sound card,
the Boss GT-10 plugged into the usb port was distorted and latent.
and when choosing ASIO, sonar no longer recognized the GT-10's usb input.
btw - it's not just the input, but the recorded track as well.

I am monitoring input on that track by clicking the monitor icon on that sonar track.
maybe I should only monitor using an output from the GT-10.
anyway...
I'll go through the options and make notes so we can collectively get to the bottom if the issue.
I just bought the delta 44, so if I need to send it back for something else, I definitely will.
 

Scottie Eades


Thanks very much for all the input.... I will print them all and go through them carefully.

I had also submitted a tech support request to Sonar, but haven't heard anything back yet,
so I'm glad you all have responded.

on the usb comment.... sorry, it must be the way I worded it.
I didn't mean to say the delta 44 was usb... 'cause I know it's not.
I meant that using the delta 44 as my only sound card,
the Boss GT-10 plugged into the usb port was distorted and latent.
and when choosing ASIO, sonar no longer recognized the GT-10's usb input.
btw - it's not just the input, but the recorded track as well.

I am monitoring input on that track by clicking the monitor icon on that sonar track.
maybe I should only monitor using an output from the GT-10.
anyway...
I'll go through the options and make notes so we can collectively get to the bottom if the issue.
I just bought the delta 44, so if I need to send it back for something else, I definitely will.
 

I have pretty much the same software-with an i7 920\etc. I used to use my GT-10 to record. I never got the USB o0utput to record well. I used the anolog outs to a hardware mixer and the recordings were nice. I don't use the GT-10 anymore, but the anolog outs always worked for me. Using a Delta Auiophole2496 same drivers as yours.

okay... here's what I've learned.
 
1.  downloaded the latest drivers for the delta44 (not the beta ones) Delta_6_0_2_5_10_0_5074.
2.  downloaded the win 7 64 bit drivers for the Boss GT-10 (to match my OS)
3.  then got rid of the USB (boss GT-10) and connected a guitar cable from the GT-10 to input 1 on the delta 44.
4.  verified there is NO wireless network card in my system (the desktop sits right next to the router, so I use cable).
5.  Gain Staging - checked the signal from source to output and verified signal levels are NOT peaking.
6.  Checked the control panel to make sure there were NO hardware conflicts. (disabled the onboard soundcard).
---the good news first---
starting with ASIO and then trying WDM/KS here's what I've found.
The names of the drivers change a little but both seem to work about the same.
the input monitored signal and recorded signal both are distortion free.
no dropouts are error messages.
 (previous error message was caused by the output defaulting to the GT-10 USB crap)
--- the bad news---
I used the step sequencer on session drummer and set up a basic beat.
with the basic beat playing back (I had to set the output of the M-Audio control panel to "sw rtn" or...
if I set it to mixer I then had to set inputs to monitor "sw rtn".)
using the M-Audio Control Panel  and every option of mixer, sw rtn, in 1,2,3,4 and so on.
The latency was bad enough that I couldn't play in sync with the drum track.
This was with the latency slider in sonar audio config screen all the way to the left (fastest).
after a couple hours of trying everything, I moved the guitar input to ch. 3 on the M-audio breakout box.
this allowed me to monitor the sonar playback and input at the same time.
I can stay with the drum track... but I still don't like it. The guitar sounds like a 50's slapback delay, and
you can't change it.  I didn't get that with my soundblaster audigy.
so... I'm happy it's closer, but if that's as good as it gets, I'm sending the delta 44 back and get something else.
 
one thing... the USB thing was important because I also have an ART Voicechannel pre-amp that I love!!
I can just connect a cable to the delta but if it has a USB interface, it seems like I should be able to use it.
 
hope this hasn't been too wordy... but I wanted to provide details.
I'm usually optimistic, but I'm getting frusted... I've got deadlines to meet.... don't we all :)
 
ideas? comments?
you all have been a big help and I appreciate it!
                    Scottie
 
 
 

2  You can go change the delta 44, but all you will do is waste your time and money.Buy a $99 Mackie vlz3 It has 4 channels and 2 very descent mic pre's. That is how I always recorded with my GT-10 when I used it (I have the 12 channel version of that mixer). Sounded very good. I now use an AXE FX Ultra, but I still use a mixing board. Makes all the duifference in the world for me. Never ever have to worry about latency or monitoring what your recording. Well gotta go to work

In the M-audio control panel do this:

On the Hardware tab tick the box that says 'disable asio direct monitoring'.
Goto the Mixer tab and mute all your inputs.
On the Output tab select 'sw-rtn' for all your outputs.

Now in Sonar simply select the audio track you want to record on, select your input, enable record AND the input echo.
With the audio engine running you should now hear whatever is going through your chosen input.
(e.g. if you want to record something connected to inputs 1/2 on the breakout box select 1/2 as your input on your Sonar track)

Obviously the performance of monitoring through Sonar will always depend on your Asio buffer setting, and with your system spec you should be able to keep it very low.

If memory serves me correctly I'm pretty sure this is the correct setup for the Delta 44, BUT it's been a few years since I used my trusty 44 so don't take it as fact lol.

If it doesn't work google Delta-44 setup or some such and you'll be away, especially if you want to monitor directly through the 44 as I've always monitored through Sonar and haven't a clue!!!

Hope this helps

+3

As I mentioned earlier, I use a Delta 44 card.  However, I do not use input monitroing through Sonar.  Tried it once and soon realized it was more trouble than it was worth.  I monitor while tracking through my Mackie mixer.

Final Conclusion....

I was able to resolve most of the issues with the M-Audio Delta 44 card; however this card will not serve my purpose... and here's why.

If I close Sonar and all other DAW software. ONLY using the Delta mixer interface software.
I connect my computer speakers (or any other monitoring device) to outputs 1,2.
I plug a guitar FX output into input 1,2,3 or 4... doesn't matter.
In order to hear the guitar as I play (no latency) I set the outputs to mixer and set the mixer to monitor input (whichever I'm plugged into). That allows me to hear guitar but if I were playing back a previously recorded track such as Drums, Bass, etc. from Sonar, or even a raw wave file. It will not be heard UNLESS I choose "software return". at that point I also hear mixed in with the playback, the guitar as I play but with about 1/2 second delay.
There is NO way, I can find to turn this off.
    I believe it is working as designed, but I don't see how everyone has made that work.
I can ignore the slapback delay sound and record, after which playback is fine. But I really don't care to have a delay on every guitar track I ever record, it's truly annoying.
direct monitoring by running a second output from guitar FX to mixer still doesn't remove the delay sound, and I've tried every possible combination of the software mixer.

-- There are many satisfied users out there, so it must be that I'm way out in left field or something. But here's the kicker.....  I bought a E-MU 1212m PCI, and within 20 minutes, had it working fine!!  I'm sending the delta 44 back. The 1212m has more I/O and a much better mixer software interface. I wasn't able to use WDM, It just records really choppy audio and I get dropouts. But I switched to ASIO and it works great!! it's weird but I have to choose the last stereo output ASIO stereo 31 to get output to the soundcard. But it does work.... I'm sure it's config that I'll eventually get figured out.
*** I will move future posts about the E-mu 1212m to a different post, so it can be found more easily.
comments?
thanks for all the help so far.
   Scottie

FBB,
all I have is the E-mu 1212m PCI... the onboard sound card is disabled.
when I pick WDM... I get  about 4 names for the 1212 drivers.. something like WAVE 1/2, Wave 3/4 -
-- when I pick ASIO drivers I get (something close to this)
"L In Em-u 1"
"R In E-mu 2
"Stereo Emu 1/2)
... and it repeats all the way to 31, which is the only one that outputs sound to the speakers.
**hence the "Weird" comment.
ever seen that before?

The Delta44 works great in WDM mode, just make sure you download and install the Windows7 x64 driver.

I no longer have the Delta 44, replaced it with the E-mu 1212m.
I solved the problem of having to use the input 32 on the E-mu 1212m. It was just a matter of setting up the mixer correctly. I followed the instructions and it worked perfectly.
I did find out about the ASIO limitation of one driver, that it is ASIO and not Sonar causing the limitation. But why don't the WDM drivers work? Is that Sonar or E-mu?
I would prefer being able to use my other interfaces. It may be possible to route them through ASIO in the 1212m Mixer Software, I will try that soon.
I also found a third party app call ASIO4ALL, It has good reviews. I tried it but it didn't really do anything for me. The issue with Pro Sound cards is that they don't support direct-x, so if you are using to streaming Audio and creating a wave file, some apps won't perform that function with E-mu or M-audio. However, you can accomplish that task in Sonar. It just seems crazy that you would have to use such a high end program for a simple task.
But back to the WDM drivers not working for E-mu cards... they provide up to date drivers, so why don't they work?
anybody know?