DonM
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Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
Here it is!  But. It's USB!!!!! NO!!!!! -D
post edited by DonM - 2008/10/03 11:48:32
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stratcat33511
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 11:46:01
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DonM
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 11:47:41
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Not USB.... NO!!!! I would buy it today - now I may not!.
-D
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stratcat33511
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 11:52:07
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ooHHH - USB ain't no dern good, I tell ya
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John T
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 11:56:32
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There is nothing wrong with USB. USB's highest transfer rates are faster than Firewire.
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ProjectM
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 11:57:33
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(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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plainfaced
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 11:58:21
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Big downer..
The more I look at this unit. The more I tell myself, I have no need for it.
I do love it.. BUt its not my cup of tea - It would have a place in my "small" home studio.
Sonar Professional | Reason 8 | Propellerheads Balance | Windows 10
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edentowers
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 12:15:01
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Wish I could tell you of all the troubles I'm having with my Edirol UA-101 USB interface.
But I can't because I'm not!
S8PE, Dell XPS 720 (Q6600), XP Pro SP2, Edirol UA-101
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AndyW
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 12:16:14
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How do they push 18 in by 24 out with USB?
In any case....it looks cool but I just can't get excited over big control surfaces. I don't typically record automation, I draw in envelopes. I typically only work with one channel at a time, so the Alphatrack works great for me and takes up a lot less desk space. So I am sure a lot of people wanting a fresh start to their studio will want this...but for me personally, not too interested. Cool product tho'.
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AT
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 12:22:23
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In Sonic States video Brandon hints different combinations may be coming. Specifically in answer to the question, he sez that it is called the "700" series and you can work from that designation.
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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John T
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 12:22:28
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ORIGINAL: AndyW
How do they push 18 in by 24 out with USB? Becvause USB can handle that amount of data. There's no mystery here. USB 1 was slow, but USB 2 is fine. As I said, in the right implementation, it can be faster than Firewire.
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ohhey
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 12:23:28
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ORIGINAL: ProjectM
What's wrong with USB?
USB2 has been considered less suitable to task then firewire for audio interfaces. It has nothing to do with speed because both are fast enough. Firewire was designed from the start to do video and audio and USB2 was not and the big reason was that USB2 uses up CPU power more then Firewire does because it's a host based system no peer to peer like Firewire. That being said the CPU use objection has diminished a little over time because of faster and mulit-core computers. Some look at like... well yes, it uses more CPU but I have the CPU power to spare now so it won't cause dropouts. USB might be a good choice if the driver developers have an easier time getting it right with the tools they have. The quality of firewire drivers can vary widely and the skill level required to get it right seems to be high. So... if they can get the drivers right and they work good it might be worth taking the hit on CPU power... if you have some to spare.
post edited by ohhey - 2008/10/03 12:25:12
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Mr. Ease
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 12:25:20
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ORIGINAL: John T
There is nothing wrong with USB. USB's highest transfer rates are faster than Firewire.
It is true that the max speed of USB is 480 Mb/s as opposed to Firewire at 400 Mb/s (unless of course you have S800 standard firewire). The problem with your statement though is that you do not account for protocol overheads. In fact for streaming either Audio or Video, Firewire 400 IS faster and more efficient than USB, nor does the Firewire protocol burden your CPU anywhere near as much as the USB protocol. Sorry but Firewire 400 beats USB2 quite nicely for our favourite app.! Edit: Having said that, both should be quite adequate for this interface. I think the USB2 protocols do cause more software and CPU problems than the simpler firewire protocol though.
post edited by Mr. Ease - 2008/10/03 12:29:37
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Lemonboy
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 12:42:23
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I haven't conducted anything other than a 50GB data transfer test from the local hard drive to an external hard drive, but using the same drive I found that on the Mac firewire 400 was a lot faster than USB 2, but on a PC USB 2 came in slightly faster than Firewire 400!
Not very scientific I'll grant you, but I'm sure Cakewalk & Roland have done their homework ?!!
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Fog
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 12:50:03
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I can understand why they went for usb2 over firewire, think of how many machines don't ship with firewire as standard.. also the thing with chipset issues and it not being Ti or whatever.
so you splash out on a new controller etc.. only to find your pc flips you the bird because the chipset don't like it..
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John T
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 12:50:57
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I do a good half of my recording to an external drive over USB. It is more than capable, seriously.
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John T
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 12:52:21
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ORIGINAL: Fog
I can understand why they went for usb2 over firewire, think of how many machines don't ship with firewire as standard.. also the thing with chipset issues and it not being Ti or whatever. Indeed. Fireware is actually a colossal pain in the ass, and at the root of a lot of people's interface woes.
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DonM
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 13:00:15
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ORIGINAL: John T
ORIGINAL: Fog
I can understand why they went for usb2 over firewire, think of how many machines don't ship with firewire as standard.. also the thing with chipset issues and it not being Ti or whatever. Indeed. Fireware is actually a colossal pain in the ass, and at the root of a lot of people's interface woes.
I love this type of post. Absolutely zero experience, full of shallow opinion. I have no opinion about USB - what I have is thousands of hours of very high profile recordings logged in studio and on-location. As Frank said above drivers can matter - but the fact that USB is the choice sets this product below pro level. Every product in this class from Digi, M-Audio etc are all firewilre ..-D
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John T
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 13:01:04
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ORIGINAL: Lemonboy
Not very scientific I'll grant you, but I'm sure Cakewalk & Roland have done their homework ?!!
Indeed. It's as if people think they've just not tested it, and put it on sale without realising it can't stream that many tracks.
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plainfaced
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 13:01:14
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Why are some manufacturers steering away from PCI?
Sonar Professional | Reason 8 | Propellerheads Balance | Windows 10
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Fog
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 13:10:14
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ORIGINAL: plainfaced
Why are some manufacturers steering away from PCI?
because programming for firewire / usb causes far less headaches and is generic with regard to syncing/timing issues (mobo's etc can cause more complexities). yamaha only make usb / firewire these days and it also cuts down the amount of time used on support calls etc. edit : although I'm waiting on an RME card that is PCI-e.. everyone has their preference I guess.
post edited by Fog - 2008/10/03 13:21:30
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stratton
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 13:11:13
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but the fact that USB is the choice sets this product below pro level. Another fact is that the Agere firewire chipset has been a lot of trouble for users for a long time, a year or so.
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b rock
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 13:12:13
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Mark my words. Somebody is going to buy this with the assumption that they can power it from their 500 mA USB port.[sm=rolleyes.gif]
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Fog
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 13:13:56
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DonM who are you addressing with that post? "I love this type of post. Absolutely zero experience, full of shallow opinion." to make such an assumption you would have to know exactly what people did for a living.. and obviously none of us have gone to high end studios except you..lol
post edited by Fog - 2008/10/03 13:15:59
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Monkey Mash
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daveny5
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 13:18:01
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Anyone heard a price? My guess is its at least two grand and will be out of the range of my budget. Edit: I just saw that it will be priced around $4G. If that's list then the street price will be around $2800. Nevermind! 
post edited by daveny5 - 2008/10/03 13:25:27
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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gordonrussell76
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 13:23:04
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I am thinkign they have built a componentized system, so You can still use your audio interface of choice, and then just get hte control surface.
Personally thats what I would like to do.
The control, having shortcuts for Snap and having a context sensitive ACT panel that will already be mapped to all teh Sonar stock effects, now tell me that ain't cool. Hopefully they will release ACt template as downloads fromt eh site for other Popular plugs such as Waves.
Would not surprise me if they realease the ACT controller part as a seperate little box.
Personally I am very excited by this development, I think we should all sit back and relax on this one.
ALso on teh subject of USB Its not far off Firewire, and the point about FIrewire issues is valid, I have some expereience in troubleshootign firwire issues and they can be a pain. I think that USB is a sensible choice at this point. As to the fact that USB is not PRO, what the hell is pro, i am getting tired of hearing that something is not PRO, is a Squier Stratocaster not PRO? why is that my guitarist can make it sound about 15 times better than most people sound on a Fender American Strat? Becuase equipment does not make you PRO, you make yourself PRO with dilligence and effort.
Man SONAR has never been seen as PRO, its always oh you use SOnar, well I use PRO TOOL becuase it PRO. Jeez give me a break. I USE PRO gear is the clarion call of those insecure in their musical/recording prowess.
Sorry rant over, but seeing as no-one has even tried em yet, I think we should just chill and be optimistic that Cakewalk a great company that has given us many great products, might jsut have given us another.
Lets see eh
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Mr. Ease
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 13:23:34
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ORIGINAL: John T
I do a good half of my recording to an external drive over USB. It is more than capable, seriously.
Data transfer is NOT the same protocol in firewire as time critical audio or video streaming. I can quite believe that data transfer on USB2 could marginally outperform Firewire 400. Fog makes the well known point that most PC's now come with multiple USB2 ports and not Firewire. This would be a significant marketing angle. The point about Ti vs other chip sets has diminished with time. I have set up various PC's for people using newer onboard VIA chipsets without issue. Believe me the NON Ti manufacturers do not sit on their butts and wait for Ti to clean up - even if our usage is only a minor part of the market, incompatibilities or problems always wake up the silicon guys. I know that many of the specific audio PC builders round here still recommend the Ti chipsets but wonder if they have recently seen problems that they can specifically relate to particular silicon rather than the drivers. Any takers? BTW I am not trying to say that Cakewalk should have used this or that - not my job. I am simply pointing out that some of the comments re Firewire400/USB2 are technically incorrect. We're the customers, we pay our money and take our choice. Opinions on A versus B will always vary but we are surely wiser if we base these opinions on fact and not hearsay.
post edited by Mr. Ease - 2008/10/03 13:37:08
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ohhey
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 13:31:02
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ORIGINAL: plainfaced
Why are some manufacturers steering away from PCI?
More folks are buying laptops now then ever, not many folks want a desktop now.
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Mr. Ease
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RE: Sonar / Roland Hardware BUT!!!
2008/10/03 13:43:39
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ORIGINAL: DonM
As Frank said above drivers can matter - but the fact that USB is the choice sets this product below pro level. I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. USB2 and Firewire are simply serial data standards, why should one be regarded as Pro and the other not? What WILL define the standard of this product is whether it performs flawlessly or not.
post edited by Mr. Ease - 2008/10/03 13:45:29
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