Fabio Rubato
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Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
Hey. Trying to setup Audacity to record compositions in Sonar X3 in real time. I want to add some other real time sounds as opposed to just exporting the comp as a wave. I used to be able to do this when using my old Creative Elite Pro sound card. Now that I'm using the Quad - which is great and doesn't give me any BSOD anymore - I'm unable to configure Audacity to work - I'm using 2.0.5 version which is apparently the latest.
I have 3 audio host options: MME, Windows Direct Sound and Windows WASAPI. I have my Quad linked via sp-dif, so I choose the playback and recording as Quad-capture 3-4, which is the sp-dif.
Anyone out there know how to do this correctly, as I must be doing something wrong?
Thanks
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Guitarpima
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/07 20:53:31
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It's not clear what your after.
First thing is to use ASIO drivers in your host DAWs.
Are Sonar and Audacity on the same computer? I don't understand why you would want to go from a Sonar project and bounce it to Audacity.
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Fabio Rubato
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/07 21:17:59
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Hi. ASIO are selected. Audacity apparently doesn't use them, so other options need to be selected. Yes, both Sonar and Audacity are on the same computer.
I want to record my comp in real time, so that I can add some addition real-time sounds. I don't think I can do that in Sonar...or I don't know how to do it.
Sonar: Platinum, (X3e) - x64 PC: Win10 Pro 64; Computer: Gigabyte Z68X-UD3R-B3; Intel i7, 2600k @ 4.2 (8 Cores); 16 GB Corsair Ram; Visual Card: Gigabyte GTX 580; Audio Interface: RME UFX; Monitors: Adam A77X, Sub8; Midi Controllers: Komplete Kontrol S88, Novation Bass Station 2; NI Maschine Mk 2; Other Hardware: Joe Meek Twin Q Dual Studio Channel; Mics: RODE NT2-A, ASTON Spirit Latest Song: Lay Down Before the War
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Stone House Studios
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/07 21:29:34
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Hi there!
You can do a lot more with Sonar than with Audacity - especially if you are overdubbing on to yourself. You will need to learn how to use Sonar to get where you want to be, but you will be able to do more once you get there.
Try the tutorials first.
Brian
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Fabio Rubato
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/07 21:51:03
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Okay, I've done quite a few tutes...always something new to learn. Here's what I want to do...I have a vocal wave and in Nectar 2, I want to use a harmony at specific but sometimes at different places...it's in real time, so I can't record that...at least I don't know how to. I mean I could use Melodyne and copy that wave section onto another track and then move the notes up a minor 3rd or whatever...lot of messing around, but that's one way. Or I can just press harmony minor 3rd in Nectar...easy and quick. That's what I use Audacity for on a final master track, which I then save for CD's, or convert to MP3 etc.
If there's a better way to do it, I'd like to know how? If there is a specific tute for this, then I'd be grateful to know.
Thanks
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DaddyV
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/07 22:47:18
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Fabio, just record another track of YOU singing with yourself doing the harmony parts. This technic has worked wonders over the decades.
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Fabio Rubato
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/07 22:53:25
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Thanks Dv...umm, I should have said that the vocal is a wave vocal...not me singing, or rather attempting to sing. So the singer is not available to do such.
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DaddyV
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/07 23:13:54
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OK, copy the vocal to a separate track, then use melodyne and move the blobs to create the harmony part! I would loop a phrase at a time till I get a desirable harmony.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/07 23:18:43
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Nectar seems to be a VST plug in. You just need to add it to Sonars plug in list. I'm guessing that it came with Audacity? so it will be in Audacity's plug in folder, point Sonars Plug in manager and it should work inside Sonar. Audacity is just a very basic program, Sonar is very powerful so focus on learning all it's features and forget about using Audacity until you do.
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Fabio Rubato
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/08 01:21:45
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Dv...Yes, it looks like I'll have to that re the Melodyne approach.
CM, yes I'm using Nectar as a VST plug-in.
I just want to record Sonar whilst it's playing back. What if I want to play a guitar/keyboard/scat vocally in real time? That's what I'm on about here.
Thanks for you input.
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AT
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/08 02:07:38
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If you want to play a guitar/keyboard/scat vocally in real time, just set up SONAR to do that. You'll need more inputs - one for each line you want to record.
I don't think you can record in SONAR from Audacity - that would be like typing in MS word directly to this forum. One program can have focus at a time.
SONAR is a more complete program than audacity - you should be able to do anything in SONAR you can do in audacity, unless it involves a program tied to audacity (like melodyne to SONAR). Although I must say, I still don't understand what you are trying to do.
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Fabio Rubato
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/08 04:33:42
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Okay, I have a composition and I play it from Sonar...drums, waves, softsynths ect...usual stuff. I want to record it for a CD - for example. I use Audacity - used to be able to do this with Creative Elite Pro. Anyway, so I'm recording away and I want to include a softsynth line, or a live guitar/vocal etc as I'm recording. That's essentially what I'm trying to set up with the Quad, which I could do with Creative.
The line/vocal etc that I'm playing in real time, only goes on the CD as I'm recording and not into Sonar - even though I might have 2 or more tracks saved as the main comp.
I guess I'll work around it. I mean how to others record their compositions for CD/Web/videos? Do you just export it as a wave?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/08 05:30:44
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Yes. I don't really understand your workflow logic, to be honest. "Normally" you just record and mix all parts until you feel happy with the total, then export as WAV (or something else). As for Nectar, if you have it as a plugin it should be available in Sonar and you can record and automate to your heart's content. I don't understand why you would need to use Audacity for this at all?
Are you saying you bypass/unbypass Nectar during playback or something? If so, you can automate that in Sonar or setup a controller to record it.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/08 06:26:02
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☄ Helpfulby Fabio Rubato 2013/12/08 20:46:35
I'm stumped as well. I don't understand at all what is the use of Audacity in this context, or maybe I've simply misunderstood your goals.
According to what I've "understood" I would simply put Nectar on the vocal track and automate the harmonics, as Sanderxpander suggests. If automation can't be done (I've never used Nectar), then copy the vocals on another track (or several tracks) and do the harmonizing on those tracks with Nectar.
Basicly, putting Automation Write on, playing back the track tweaking Nectar, should do the job.
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Sidroe
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/08 09:22:48
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☄ Helpfulby Fabio Rubato 2013/12/08 20:46:10
It sounds to me like you don't understand that you can record your realtime performance, singing, scatting, voice over, etc. on to a new audio track in Sonar. You can what we call overdub or multitrack as many additional tracks as you want. Just right click on the empty space where you see your soft synths or drum machine track. You will get a prompt to add an audio or midi track. Add an audio track. You have to set up the in and out for your mic. Then you just hit record and your good to go. I see no mention of headphone monitoring. Be advised, you will hear the audio from your speakers being recorded at the same time in the background of your new audio track. You must have headphones to hear and make sure your speakers are cut down.
You can add as many tracks as you want. When you are finished you mix down ALL of the tracks in Sonar. When your done you will save or import the master wave file where ever you want. Or you can burn your project directly to a cd from Sonar.
You don't need Audacity at all. It is a huge waste of time doing so.
I would suggest doing some searches on the web about overdubbing and multi tracking first so you may better understand the process. I will watch for your posts here and if there is any way I can help let me know! Good luck, my friend! It is never easy changing an old workflow to a new but once you understand the power and capability you have in Sonar you will never turn back. JUST BE PATIENT!
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Sidroe
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/08 09:25:15
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BTW, as mentioned before just copy your original track to a new track and add Nectar in the FX bin. This will allow you to work on your vocal tracks.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Guitarpima
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/08 10:58:30
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☄ Helpfulby Fabio Rubato 2013/12/08 20:48:04
Good point about copying the vocal track. You can create a new audio track and copy the vocal and paste it into the new track or you can clone the original vocal track and then archive the original. It is always a good idea to keep an original track just in case you mess it up. That way you can start over if you have to.
Groove 3 has videos you can learn from to get the most out of Sonar. I recommend them as I'm sure many here will as well.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/08 11:11:26
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I think the point of copying the vocal track was to create a harmony by pitch shifting through Nectar.
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Sidroe
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/08 11:18:54
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Thumbs up on saving the original vocal track! And yes, Sander, the point is to keep the original track in this case so you can copy that vocal track and then manufacture the harmony with it.
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Fabio Rubato
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/08 20:44:28
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Thanks for the helpful tips guys. Sidroe thanks for you in-depth advice. I haven't done a lot of overdubbing, although I did try to set this up the other day with an audio track and wasn't able to configure it successfully. That would indeed meet my goal. Once I had this track, I was going to experiment with Stutter Edit for real time effects. I am very patient with this stuff...I love it and get a lot of satisfaction and joy when something wonderous is created.
And yes it occured to me today to just clone the vocal wave and cut the unwanted and just have pitch shift for those parts...duh! It's quicker doing this than Melodyne - although the latter is probably better with silibance editing - and Nectar 2 is a much better piece of software for things like this than the previous version.
So, goodbye Audacity, you served me well.
Cheers
Sonar: Platinum, (X3e) - x64 PC: Win10 Pro 64; Computer: Gigabyte Z68X-UD3R-B3; Intel i7, 2600k @ 4.2 (8 Cores); 16 GB Corsair Ram; Visual Card: Gigabyte GTX 580; Audio Interface: RME UFX; Monitors: Adam A77X, Sub8; Midi Controllers: Komplete Kontrol S88, Novation Bass Station 2; NI Maschine Mk 2; Other Hardware: Joe Meek Twin Q Dual Studio Channel; Mics: RODE NT2-A, ASTON Spirit Latest Song: Lay Down Before the War
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Sidroe
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/09 12:08:18
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Audacity is still useful as a quick and dirty audio editor. I used it for years to strip audio off of youtube videos and make mp3s out of it. My phone is full of those! LOL!
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Sidroe
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/09 12:10:30
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Fabio, there should be instructions in Sonar's help files to instruct you on how to properly setup an audio track. It seems like there are also a few video tutorials on YouTube about it as well. Let us know if you got her up and running. If not, we will try to help.
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Fabio Rubato
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/10 02:31:49
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Yes thanks Sidroe, I'll play around with it and/or do some research. I did try to set up an audio track to record the rest of the tracks currently composed - I used to be able to do that as well with my Elite Pro Drivers - record what you hear - in Sonar as well as Audacity as I previously mentioned. However, the Quad-drivers don't seem to have that option, so I'll need to continue to figure it out.
Thanks for you offer of help.
Cheers
Sonar: Platinum, (X3e) - x64 PC: Win10 Pro 64; Computer: Gigabyte Z68X-UD3R-B3; Intel i7, 2600k @ 4.2 (8 Cores); 16 GB Corsair Ram; Visual Card: Gigabyte GTX 580; Audio Interface: RME UFX; Monitors: Adam A77X, Sub8; Midi Controllers: Komplete Kontrol S88, Novation Bass Station 2; NI Maschine Mk 2; Other Hardware: Joe Meek Twin Q Dual Studio Channel; Mics: RODE NT2-A, ASTON Spirit Latest Song: Lay Down Before the War
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Sidroe
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/10 08:28:23
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Fabio, be sure you have all the tracks highlighted that you want to bounce. You have to highlight them even to export them. Any tracks not highlighted will not get bounced or exported. You will see the options to bounce or export all the tracks, what you hear will be one of those options in the dropdown list. Please, check the tutorials on YouTube even the ones for older products like X1 and X2 will be helpful to you at this point. Cakewalk has it's own channel in YouTube.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Fabio Rubato
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/13 20:30:30
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Yes, thanks Sidroe. I have an older X2 'complete' tute, which I had a look at last night. Seems I can do a live take over a bounce or even export, so I'm going to experiment with that. Ultimately I wanted to have a composition on one track and set up Stutter Edit on it and then use a midi track and play around with its effects...just for fun. As an aside...I was listening to Flume do his thing after the Aria's here in Australia recently and on one occasion, he pulled out the highs of the entire track and you could clearly hear the audience. He gradually brought it all back and built the sound to a climax and then brought in his next quite powerful song. Do you know how this is done? Is it a high pass filter on say the master? I have heard a number of artists do this kind of thing and its quite a powerful live excitement thing which I'd like to learn. 
Sonar: Platinum, (X3e) - x64 PC: Win10 Pro 64; Computer: Gigabyte Z68X-UD3R-B3; Intel i7, 2600k @ 4.2 (8 Cores); 16 GB Corsair Ram; Visual Card: Gigabyte GTX 580; Audio Interface: RME UFX; Monitors: Adam A77X, Sub8; Midi Controllers: Komplete Kontrol S88, Novation Bass Station 2; NI Maschine Mk 2; Other Hardware: Joe Meek Twin Q Dual Studio Channel; Mics: RODE NT2-A, ASTON Spirit Latest Song: Lay Down Before the War
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Splat 
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/13 22:29:36
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Sidroe
Audacity is still useful as a quick and dirty audio editor. I used it for years to strip audio off of youtube videos and make mp3s out of it. My phone is full of those! LOL!
Wavosaur!
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/14 02:38:43
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☄ Helpfulby Fabio Rubato 2013/12/15 22:32:58
Fabio Rubato
Yes, thanks Sidroe. I have an older X2 'complete' tute, which I had a look at last night. Seems I can do a live take over a bounce or even export, so I'm going to experiment with that. Ultimately I wanted to have a composition on one track and set up Stutter Edit on it and then use a midi track and play around with its effects...just for fun.As an aside...I was listening to Flume do his thing after the Aria's here in Australia recently and on one occasion, he pulled out the highs of the entire track and you could clearly hear the audience. He gradually brought it all back and built the sound to a climax and then brought in his next quite powerful song. Do you know how this is done? Is it a high pass filter on say the master? I have heard a number of artists do this kind of thing and its quite a powerful live excitement thing which I'd like to learn.
If he took the highs OUT it would have been a low pass filter, not a high pass one. But while I haven't seen him perform, the Pioneer and X-One and other DJ-style mixers usually have a band pass filter instead. That means that the track also got thinner as the freqs came back up, leading to an extra climax when the bass kicks in on the new track. You could try automating a band pass filter (e.g. the included BiFilter) on the master, but if you want to transition to a new track it's probably best to make a subgroup of one track and send all tracks and busses there, then send that subgroup buss to the master. Putting the filter on the subgroup buss means you keep the master clean which makes it easier to kick in the new track. Fading in some reverb or delay during the filter sweep can also help the effect.
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Fabio Rubato
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/15 22:34:33
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Sanderxpander
Fabio Rubato
Yes, thanks Sidroe. I have an older X2 'complete' tute, which I had a look at last night. Seems I can do a live take over a bounce or even export, so I'm going to experiment with that. Ultimately I wanted to have a composition on one track and set up Stutter Edit on it and then use a midi track and play around with its effects...just for fun.As an aside...I was listening to Flume do his thing after the Aria's here in Australia recently and on one occasion, he pulled out the highs of the entire track and you could clearly hear the audience. He gradually brought it all back and built the sound to a climax and then brought in his next quite powerful song. Do you know how this is done? Is it a high pass filter on say the master? I have heard a number of artists do this kind of thing and its quite a powerful live excitement thing which I'd like to learn.
If he took the highs OUT it would have been a low pass filter, not a high pass one. But while I haven't seen him perform, the Pioneer and X-One and other DJ-style mixers usually have a band pass filter instead. That means that the track also got thinner as the freqs came back up, leading to an extra climax when the bass kicks in on the new track.
You could try automating a band pass filter (e.g. the included BiFilter) on the master, but if you want to transition to a new track it's probably best to make a subgroup of one track and send all tracks and busses there, then send that subgroup buss to the master. Putting the filter on the subgroup buss means you keep the master clean which makes it easier to kick in the new track. Fading in some reverb or delay during the filter sweep can also help the effect.
Thanks for clearing that up...I'll look forward to trying out your suggestion. Cheers
Sonar: Platinum, (X3e) - x64 PC: Win10 Pro 64; Computer: Gigabyte Z68X-UD3R-B3; Intel i7, 2600k @ 4.2 (8 Cores); 16 GB Corsair Ram; Visual Card: Gigabyte GTX 580; Audio Interface: RME UFX; Monitors: Adam A77X, Sub8; Midi Controllers: Komplete Kontrol S88, Novation Bass Station 2; NI Maschine Mk 2; Other Hardware: Joe Meek Twin Q Dual Studio Channel; Mics: RODE NT2-A, ASTON Spirit Latest Song: Lay Down Before the War
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Sidroe
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/16 09:08:48
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Hi,Fabio. Been a while. Thankfully, I've had a couple of projects come in and been pretty busy. If you are using X2 you could use automation and RMix to get that sort of filter effect. There is a tutorial around somewhere about RMix. Either Sonar U or YouTube possibly. You just stick RMix into the track or buss, open, and move the target window around for desired effects.
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Fabio Rubato
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Re: Sonar, Roland Quad-Capture and Audacity Set-up Advice
2013/12/16 21:10:10
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Hi Sidroe. Glad to hear you're busy. I assume I'd be able to do the same re using RMix in X3. I haven't used RMix at all as I don't understand it - more homeplay - so I'll hunt around and tute myself up...sounds like another good way to achieve the desired effect and it's always good to be able to do something a couple of ways.
Thanks and all the best.
PS - uhh Sonar U?
Sonar: Platinum, (X3e) - x64 PC: Win10 Pro 64; Computer: Gigabyte Z68X-UD3R-B3; Intel i7, 2600k @ 4.2 (8 Cores); 16 GB Corsair Ram; Visual Card: Gigabyte GTX 580; Audio Interface: RME UFX; Monitors: Adam A77X, Sub8; Midi Controllers: Komplete Kontrol S88, Novation Bass Station 2; NI Maschine Mk 2; Other Hardware: Joe Meek Twin Q Dual Studio Channel; Mics: RODE NT2-A, ASTON Spirit Latest Song: Lay Down Before the War
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