Sonar Studio X2, A&H Zed R16 and mixdown routing questions

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Taller
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2013/04/10 17:14:31 (permalink)

Sonar Studio X2, A&H Zed R16 and mixdown routing questions

I'm brand new at this digital recording game, but fairly proud of my progress over the course of the last month and a half. The last time I did multi-track recording, we were still using reel-to-reel tape machines, so please help to free my mindset from these ancient ways!
 
OK - like the title suggests, I've got this wonderful mixer from Allen and Heath - the Zed 16R, which receives rave reviews for its pre-amps and EQ section. I'm doing a fairly simple project, the result of which will be a demo CD of cover tunes to represent myself and my female singing partner. I've recorded 7 songs, the most complex of which features 5 tracks - acoustic guitar, lead vox, backing vox, tambourine, and shakers.
 
Now I'm ready to mix each of these songs down to its final stereo mix. Once I've done that, I'd like to (I'm guessing) import all these stereo mixes into a project such that I may use slip-editing and fade-ins/outs to segue them all together, producing one final stereo mix of the seven songs running one into another.
 
I thought I had a fairly good idea of how to go about this, but the routing between the Zed and the 'Ins' and 'Outs' of the tracks in Sonar have my head spinning and try as I might, I just can't seem to hit upon the right combination of settings to make it happen.
 
First task (question) - now that I have completed the actual recording, how do I get a completed stereo mix? I understand that one usually sets up all the automation and selects the tracks, then performs an 'Export'. What I'd like to do, is mix down my tracks utilizing the EQ on the Zed. I recorded the tracks 'flat', and they sound pretty darn good, but I'd love to be able to tweak the sound a bit with the EQ on my mixer. To accomplish this, my mind instantly goes back in time to doing a mixdown 'on the fly' - the tape machine is running and I 'play' my multitrack, adjusting the EQ and sending that to the stereo master.
 
I could go into great detail as to the various things I've tried, but I'd love to hear the suggested method from those who know way more than I do (which accounts for most of the membership here, I'm sure!)
 
Thanks so much!
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    LunaTech
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    Re:Sonar Studio X2, A&H Zed R16 and mixdown routing questions 2013/04/11 11:13:04 (permalink)
    Hello Taller,
     
    I have the Zed R16.  Its routing is impressive and very flexible I am learning. 
    In regard to what you are doing is if you are wanted to mix each of you tracks with the eq.  You could choose to route the tracks (send) to their correspondig tracks on the zed  Then use the zed routing buttons above the faders to grab the signal post eq.  At that point you can add the eq to each track and then record the L/R  of the Zed for final matering.  Fast Biker Boy was a great help to me in getting my Zed setup. IHTH..

    "Life could capture me with songs of innocence...
    And enrapture me with pleasures galore...
    Suddenly it could all quickly fade away...
    But I'm not surprised any more...."

    Sonar Platinum Pro- Win 10 64- I7 6800k - Asus - 32gb DDR4-SB ZX sound card (cd output to mixer)- Toshiba 960gb SSD (OS - Audio APPs)- 4TB Seagate (Storage/ App Content)- M-Audio Keystation 88 Pro - Akai MPD 232 - Zed R16 - PT 12 - A&H QU 24- Axiom 61 - XD 80usb
     
    "When He is all you have, He is everything you need"
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    Taller
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    Re:Sonar Studio X2, A&H Zed R16 and mixdown routing questions 2013/04/11 11:42:38 (permalink)
    Thank you LunaTech! Yes, I've got a handle on the buttons next to the channel faders, but allow me to explain a little further:
    I've read that as a good practice to take some burden off of the computer's processor, effects that would be used on more than one track (reverb, in this case) should be assigned to a buss and the individual track's 'aux sends' are used to send the signal to the reverb buss.
    I was successful in doing this, but the confusion began when I was given the opportunity to assign the output of the reverb buss.
     
    What I tried was to assign the output of that buss to the A&H Zed Stereo Main L/R.
    Then I created a stereo channel in the track section (Track 3 in Sonar)  whose Input I assigned the A&H Stereo Main L/R.
     
    My acoustic guitar (Channel 1) and lead vox (Channel 2) - their Outputs are assigned to their respective channels on the Zed, which subsequently route their signals to the Zed's Main L/R, so the thought was the direct signals from tracks 1 & 2, as well as the effected signal from the Reverb Buss would all be routed to Track 3 in Sonar and I could arm that track for recording and mix 'on the fly' (like the old days!) into the Stereo Track 3, creating a stereo master recording which I would then export to create the stereo master file.
     
    In theory, I think this should work, but I guess I was wondering how a more experienced engineer would handle the task. 
     
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    Taller
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    Re:Sonar Studio X2, A&H Zed R16 and mixdown routing questions 2013/04/11 11:47:55 (permalink)
    Oh.. I should add - by doing this project as I described, I couldn't think of a way to monitor what was actually being 'recorded' on Track 3 - if I 'solo' that track, it mutes tracks 1&2, which are essentially the entire project!
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    LunaTech
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    Re:Sonar Studio X2, A&H Zed R16 and mixdown routing questions 2013/04/11 12:00:14 (permalink)
    Hello Taller,
     
    While I believe that what you are trying to do may work, The Zed could make it simpler. I have recentl got my Zed and am only beginning to scratch the surface of its routing capability.
     
    At this point you only have 5 channels in use.  The Zed can also recored the Main L/R from the zed into Sonar.  You could send the output of the Reverb bus into the Zed on one of the other channels and then simply record the Main L/R bus of the zed into Sonar.  Since channels 1 and  2 are already going there this could give you what you need. In other words take the Reverb bus and send it to Channel 3  of the Zed and then record the Main L/R of the Zed. I hope that makes sense.
     
    Also again Fast Biker Boy would be an excellent resource for this specifically . He also has the SWA video for X2 so his command of both subject matter could prove to be extremely helpful. Thanks.

    "Life could capture me with songs of innocence...
    And enrapture me with pleasures galore...
    Suddenly it could all quickly fade away...
    But I'm not surprised any more...."

    Sonar Platinum Pro- Win 10 64- I7 6800k - Asus - 32gb DDR4-SB ZX sound card (cd output to mixer)- Toshiba 960gb SSD (OS - Audio APPs)- 4TB Seagate (Storage/ App Content)- M-Audio Keystation 88 Pro - Akai MPD 232 - Zed R16 - PT 12 - A&H QU 24- Axiom 61 - XD 80usb
     
    "When He is all you have, He is everything you need"
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Sonar Studio X2, A&H Zed R16 and mix down routing questions 2013/04/11 15:30:31 (permalink)
    Taller


    Thank you LunaTech! Yes, I've got a handle on the buttons next to the channel faders, but allow me to explain a little further:
    I've read that as a good practice to take some burden off of the computer's processor, effects that would be used on more than one track (reverb, in this case) should be assigned to a buss and the individual track's 'aux sends' are used to send the signal to the reverb buss.
    I was successful in doing this, but the confusion began when I was given the opportunity to assign the output of the reverb buss.
     
    What I tried was to assign the output of that buss to the A&H Zed Stereo Main L/R.
    Then I created a stereo channel in the track section (Track 3 in Sonar)  whose Input I assigned the A&H Stereo Main L/R.
     
    My acoustic guitar (Channel 1) and lead vox (Channel 2) - their Outputs are assigned to their respective channels on the Zed, which subsequently route their signals to the Zed's Main L/R, so the thought was the direct signals from tracks 1 & 2, as well as the effected signal from the Reverb Buss would all be routed to Track 3 in Sonar and I could arm that track for recording and mix 'on the fly' (like the old days!) into the Stereo Track 3, creating a stereo master recording which I would then export to create the stereo master file.
     
    In theory, I think this should work, but I guess I was wondering how a more experienced engineer would handle the task. 
     
    That will work but there's also another probably more flexible routing that will allow you to EQ the reverb as well if you wish. Leave Channels 1 & 2 set up as they are but route the reverb buss output to the A&H channels Stereo 3/4. Then on the ZED pan channel 3 fully left and channel 4 fully right. Assign those to the L/R buss and use the faders to control reverb level.
     
    You can still record the A&H Stereo Main L/R back into Sonar in the same way as you are now.
     
    HTH. Any more questions fire away, if I can help I will. I don't mix OTB much although I do send out to the EQ quite a lot especially on drums. It's a great EQ isn't it, shame I can't automate it though.
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    Taller
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    Re:Sonar Studio X2, A&H Zed R16 and mix down routing questions 2013/04/11 16:25:28 (permalink)
    Brilliant! Great idea on utilizing the Zed's EQ on the effect itself.

    I had asked on another thread what, exactly, was the purpose of the Stereo Interleave button - couldn't find too much on the Cakewalk Web site. One of the answers given was to use this button when using stereo effects. I tried this last night while I was experimenting with the mixing process, but I didn't hear any difference at all in the application of reverb.

    Comment/suggestion? (Other than the excellent one given above!)
     
    Any comment on my post above about how to monitor what I'm recording on my assigned 'stereo master' track?

    Thanks very much for the help, Karl. I value your base of knowledge. As I've gotten into this 'new' way of doing things, part of the frustration is the fact that everyone has their own interface, their own version of a given DAW, their own operating system, etc. The combinations are endless and it's extremely valuable to me to find others with experience on the equipment I happen to be using.
    post edited by Taller - 2013/04/11 16:39:08
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