Sonar VS. the Tascam 2488neo: sync

This is not the first time I've sync'ed devices, but it is the first time I've tried to get Sonar and a Tascam 2488neo to cooperate.  Not going well!

I've run a series of tests to verify that Sonar and the Tascam are both working, separately; they are.  But combine them, and weird things happen.

On one machine, with Sonar 4 Producer, sync sorta LOOKS like it's working.  But audibly, it's clear, Sonar and the Tascam are worlds apart.  And not in a nice, clean, consistent-time-offset kind of way.

On another (test) machine, with Sonar 8.5 Producer, again -- sync LOOKS like it's working.  But attempting sync there kills all output!  Here's the scenario:  set Sonar to audio sync, and midi and audio in the test file both play fine.  Set Sonar to SMPTE/MTC sync, and the cursor moves; the MBT clock even looks like it's following the Tascam.  But suddenly there is NO midi or audio output.

Any ideas what I should/could look at?  I'm getting really really REALLY familiar with the sync menus, in both Sonar and the Tascam!

P.S.  FWIW, 2 interfaces involved -- Edirol US-101 and a SB Audigy -- both of which have proven themselves 1,000 million times over.

Dave , its a digital recorder , so must have MMC or word clock, Ok lets see what this puppy can do

2488NEO SPECIFICATIONS

• New mastering effects include multiband compression, EQ and noise shaping for pro-sounding CD mixes
• 80GB internal hard drive
• 3-band EQ on 24 channels, 8-inputs and stereo bus with high and low sweepable shelving bands and full parametric mid band
• Three aux sends on all channels except the effects return
• Loop effect provides reverb, delay, chorus and more on an aux send and return
• Assignable Guitar multi-effects processor for overdrive, distortion, chorus, delay, flange and more
• Up to eight assignable dynamics processors for compression during recording or mixdown
• Dedicated Stereo Compressor on the stereo output
• Eight inputs: 4 XLR with phantom power double as 1/4" mic/line inputs, plus four more 1/4" mic/line inputs
• Nineteen 45mm faders including master fader
• LCD display for viewing meters and edit parameters
• 250 Virtual tracks
• CD-RW drive to record Audio CDs, import/export WAV files and backup hard drive
• High-speed USB 2.0 jack connects to PC or Mac® for data backup and SMF/WAV file
• Recording resolution: 44.1kHz, 16-bit or 24-bit

Dave , its a digital recorder , so must have MMC or word clock, Ok lets see what this puppy can do

I'm well aware that its a digital recorder, but if you want to sync using SMPTE, you have to have a SMPTE striped track to follow. 


Why don't you just use MIDI sync instead of SMPTE (unless you're trying to sync to video)? If you do, make sure you have Transmit MIDI Start/Continue/Stop Clock selected and the right MIDI port selected in the Send MIDI Sync section of Preferences-Project-MIDI. 

Sorry Dave, I missed the SMPTE part, boy that's would be going back in time ( no pun)  wouldn't it?

Ivan, sorry, but we are talking about syncing machines. It has nothing( well kind off)  to do with audio, or MIDI.
Syncing is using a time code signal to slave one machine to a master machine. In the old days like Dave says this would involve recording a generated time code SMPTE to an empty track. It was invented by the movie guys/ To make matters worse there are different frame rates. I think Sonar defaults to 30 fps. So your slave needs to be set the same.
In the mid 80's MTC  MIDI Time Clock and MMC= MIDI machine Control made it so sequencers could control the transport of hardware recorders. This eliminated having to own a SMPTE tone generator among other things.  Back then we had no audio, just MIDI on the computer so it was cool. 
An Atari could do this in 1985 so there should be no problem in this day and age. It's just one of those set up conundrums headaches. 

So we wait for the OP.

johnnyV


I see it has a USB connection, can that be used for control?

Also can't you just dump the Wave files using the USB port into your computer and then import them to Sonar. Or are you trying to add MIDI using Sonar to the 24 recorded tracks?

The USB is for data transfer.  Yes, you can dump wave files to the PC and import them to Sonar.  Two issues:  (1) it is INCREDIBLY slow, and (2) practically speaking, you pretty much lose the ability to go back and forth between the Tascam and Sonar, as your working environment.  It's as if you are saying, "OK, I'm done with the Tascam now -- this has become a Sonar project."  Shouldn't have to work that way...  as you know, since you've done the same thing with a Yamaha recorder!

Also, before I forget -- THANKS everyone, for puzzling over this with me!

OMG folks, is it really completely hopeless???

There are two types of midi sync signal. Midi clock, which  varies according to tempo and MTC (Midi Time Code) which is the midi version of SMPTE timecode. When you are trying to sync any two devices together you have to systematically try making each unit the master and the other the slave and try sending either Midi clock or MTC. There are 4 combinations. Each unit as master and sending either Midi Clock or MTC. Check the receiving unit is expecting the same type of clock signal you are sending from the master. If it is not they won't lock or work. Frame rates should be the same if using MTC. In Australia we are on 25. I am just suggesting you methodically try all options. You may have skipped one.

I run an Apple Laptop with Pro Tools, Logic and Reason in conjunction with my main DAW. (Sonar or Presonus of late) I have found Sonar liked being the slave and it was Midi clock that worked the best. I am locking the the two DAW's via midi only. You could stripe one of the units with SMPTE genereated from the other but you need to get that track output separately in order to get that signal into the reader mode. Last resort. You should be able to sync them via Midi. Both types of sync will chase lock as well. Midi clock is usually accompanied with SPP (Song Popsition Pointer) The idea is to only operate one transport and the other should obey and chase.

But with other combinations of things I found Sonar liked being the master and it was MTC that worked the best. Both devices will have options for sending or not sending these clock signals and you have to find them in their respective midi options settings. There should be no reason why these two devices will not lock and work fine together. I have synced two computers and also a computer and things like the Tascam and Yamaha AW1600 etc.

Sample clocks come into play when you are mixing the signal from one DAW digitally into the other then you also have to take that into account and make one slave to the other for the least problems with sample clocks not being in sync. Good luck. It can be a bit of a nightmare but when you get it to work it is also fun. I can get two ADAT's to lock now to Sonar as well or the other DAW. Took a while to get that working but handy for an extra 16 tracks when ever needed on tap.

In the end I found I was not locking one DAW to the other so much but rather just using Sonar to do all the midi sequencing in my case, and just using the other DAW as a synth rack in Reason for example. If you do employ two systems like this it also means that backing up becomes more complex.