Susan G
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 01:52:36
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Hi Marah- The first was that, last time I checked (admittedly some months ago) the FR form had a single, non-wrapping field with a woefully small max num of characters, which discouraged (if it didn't make impossible) any kind of detailed description. HOWEVER, I see that that has been changed, and there is now a proper field with an apparently unlimited number of characters (which is probably still not enuf for me...hahaha...). I'd like to think my ****ing about this might have had something to do with that, but my ego isn't THAT big. I'm sure it did -- don't be so modest!  I'm pretty sure that my complaint and those from others about the limits of the description field also helped lead to the changes. To be honest, I don't think you really do wish Cakewalk well at this point. I just don't see that sentiment reflected in any of your recent posts. You write very well, and you make some excellent points. I think pretty much everyone would agree with that. It still seems strange to me that you choose to spend so much time running down a DAW you no longer use and running down those who continue to use it. I just don't get it. What's the point? Thanks- -Susan
2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAMWindows 10 x64; NI Komplete Audio 6.SONAR Platinum (Lexington) x64
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Shenrei
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Re:Sonar Workflow Requests 10-01-2009
2009/10/04 02:31:38
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I'd like to see:
Note names (C5, D5, etc) on the actual notes themselves in the piano roll. The names of the sharps/flats would automatically change depending on which tonal traditional key you are in. This would make analyzing chord structure far easier and less of a hassle. I don't know about you but I don't like looking looking to the left by the keybed all the time. Sure enough, you can infer what note you are inputting via the shades of white and grey, but then that is a bit cryptic. Some other DAWs already do this to some extent, so why not Sonar?
Nicer, prettier looking notes (gradient colors?) on the piano roll would be nice, rather than just solid blocks of color.
Also, when configuring the Smart PRV Tools - each time you select a different region on the midi note "zone" display, the radio buttons on the right side reset each time you click a different zone. This is very frustrating and annoying when trying to configure your own PRV tool templates. Please have the radio buttons not reset.
Daily coffee addict. Composer on the weekends.
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jackn2mpu
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 07:41:46
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Susan G
Hi Ron-
I was gazing at your avatar and I wondered if you ever got a new pooch.
That's very nice of you! No, I don't have a new pooch, but I vow to one of these days! I was adopted by a cat with "tortietude" 4 years ago this Halloween, though. I expect she'll settle down any year now!
I do think that for anyone who's had more than one pet, one just kinda stands out -- at least Ralf did for me.
Thanks!
-Susan
Susan: So you've gotten a calico (or more likely she's gotten you)? They sure are different from other kitties. At one time we had 6 in the house (we're down to 1) and Gumdrop was a typical neurotic acting calico. But every one of them in their own way were a whole lot of fun. Then there was the all white Persian (we called her Snowflake) that just showed up in our yard one day and we took her in. She thought herself a princess and made sure we new it as well.
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John
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 10:33:50
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To be honest, I don't think you really do wish Cakewalk well at this point. I just don't see that sentiment reflected in any of your recent posts. You write very well, and you make some excellent points. I think pretty much everyone would agree with that. It still seems strange to me that you choose to spend so much time running down a DAW you no longer use and running down those who continue to use it. I just don't get it. What's the point? Thanks- -Susan This is exactly as I see it. My posts in response to Marah have been with that notion in mind. My posts seem from an out of context view not to be true yet I believe Marah's post taken from a holistic view seem never to see anything good about Sonar. Thats why I post in opposition to her. Also it seems that that is only kind of post Marah makes. If she can't interject some deficit about Sonar she doesn't post.
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Robin Kelly [Roland]
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 10:49:12
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See, this is what I'm talking about in that other thread. It's not enough that ol Robin just read it his very own self AND LIKES IT, he still demands that the one who posted the idea put a paper sack over their head, stand on one leg and scream like a chicken. Why can't you, Robin, bein a go-gettin employee make such known to Cake your own self, thereby featherin your own nest? You do see, I hope, how like the military you just seemed. All ideas must be filed in in triplicate and turned into the quartermaster where they will be assessed and logged with appropriate nomenclature which, in this case, is, if memory serves, CRM114. After this numerical tag has been secured your "idea" will be slated for admission into the que...the wait time at present is 6 to 12 weeks. Any grammer, syntax or spelling errors may delay action on your specified protocol. Please include your name, serial number and reason for submission in no more than 65 words. Thank you for your efforts and may you continue to live in peace, and health through the purity of your essential bodily fluids. Because the feature request system is build so it is not tainted by employees trying to get their personal features in. We want to put your features in. To your second point I am not going to open that can or worms. if I say, "Cool I will speak to Noel about it" I am guaranteeing that Noel will be peppered constantly about the feature request. I can see the multi page threads now about employee X was told by employee Y about my feature request, what is the status? Please understand I am pointing out how to get your features into the system. I am not offering short cuts, trying to be lazy (hence posting on the weekend). So instead of taking shots how about a return to the discussion?
That's my blog Omnia illa et ante fiebant, Omnia illa et rursus fient.
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John
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 11:15:15
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Robin I think we as a group understand your point. I do believe that we like to post FRs here to, as said before, run it through the forum even before we make a formal FR to CW. It helps in may ways for us to see the reaction the forum has about and it can often lead to a better more focused FR. I don't believe any of us thinks that CW doesn't read the forum and takes from it new ideas. At the same time we understand for us to be sure that an FR is seen by CW a formal FR has to be made. I am not sure what the point is that you quote in your post. It seems as if the poster of the quote does not understand these things. At the same time I know from past experience that CW does take ideas that come directly from postings on this forum and incorporate them in new versions of Sonar. When this is done and how CW decides to do FRs is a total mystery to me and probably many others. But then we are only users participating in a user forum. We can't know the inner workings of CW or the precedences CW has in house to deal with these FRs.
The idea is we debate and argue about this all the time. It is part of the nature of a healthy forum. One aspect of it you and CW can be proud of.
There is also the idea of a group wisdom that this forum represents that CW can utilize to better meet the needs of its customers. Sure there is a lot of noise here but keep in mind that there is also gold to mined from the forum in may ways. It would be wise to sift through this forum and take the gold therein and forget the rest.
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UnderTow
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 11:17:44
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Robin Kelly [Cakewalk
]
Because the feature request system is build so it is not tainted by employees trying to get their personal features in. We want to put your features in.
 Wow. I hope you are just being a sales person telling the customer what you think they want to hear and that this does not reflect Cakewalks feature inclusion policy. If it does, it bodes very badly for the future of Cakewalk and Sonar. Building an advanced piece of software by committee is misguided at best. Please correct the above statement and tells us that the decision makers at Cakewalk are intelligent enough to decide which new feature are worth implementing. Please tell us that Cakewalk have a clear vision for the future of their flagship product, a clear path to excellence. Please tell us that they are not blindly reacting to the popularity of any feature request. Frankly I hope you just pulled the above quoted sentence out of thin air without giving it too much thought. It might have sounded right to you. It might even still sound right to you despite this post. I can tell you that it sounds very wrong to me. UnderTow
post edited by UnderTow - 2009/10/04 11:22:19
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Robin Kelly [Roland]
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 11:28:15
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Thanks undertow I appreciate your words of encouragement.  Yes, the feature request form is for the customers, not for employees. yes we have checks in place to make sure we are not building the cakewalk employee personal DAW. This is where customers get to place a vote. We have other avenues internally for incorporating feature requests from other areas like partners, employees etc. Of course we have a vision that is forward thinking and looks beyond just the latest update. However, it is also important to listen to your customers, I even think I have heard that on these forums a few times. To the group: Needless to say, the only point I am making is if you use the feature request form you will get your vote in. The forums are an awesome place to discuss and debate features. In this case I was involved in the discussion and agreed with the request. The last thing I want is for a misunderstanding that just because I, Alex, Brandon or anyone else agrees a feature would be cool means it is automatically in the next version. That's why i am saying use the feature request. I have seen much frustration out of the fact that things have been discussed here but not made it to the program. All I want to get across is, if you put request in it will be logged and compiled. Same for bugs using the problem reporter. I just hate seeing this much frustration when there is a solution. Please keep discussing things here, debate them etc. That is totally fine and encouraged, but in a case like this where I was in the middle of it, I will and other employees will, point you to the Feature request form as the method of getting your request officially logged. Robin
That's my blog Omnia illa et ante fiebant, Omnia illa et rursus fient.
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UnderTow
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 11:30:58
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John
To be honest, I don't think you really do wish Cakewalk well at this point. I just don't see that sentiment reflected in any of your recent posts. You write very well, and you make some excellent points. I think pretty much everyone would agree with that. It still seems strange to me that you choose to spend so much time running down a DAW you no longer use and running down those who continue to use it. I just don't get it. What's the point? Thanks- -Susan
This is exactly as I see it. My posts in response to Marah have been with that notion in mind. My posts seem from an out of context view not to be true yet I believe Marah's post taken from a holistic view seem never to see anything good about Sonar. Thats why I post in opposition to her. Also it seems that that is only kind of post Marah makes. If she can't interject some deficit about Sonar she doesn't post.
I see the exact opposite. The way I see it Marah has half left the building because she is disillusioned about Sonar as a DAW. That disillusionment is what comes through in her posts but she still has one foot in the premises and while she is generally moving away from Sonar, she keeps looking back hoping that what she sees will make her smile and drag her right back in. Susan and John, you seem to be more sensitive to certain wordings and phrasings than people like Marah and myself (if you don't mind me saying that Marah). We seem to be more interested in the actual content of what is being said. I can understand that that will give you a different perception of various posts. That is cool but I think that in this case you are misreading Marah's motivations and intentions. Correct me if I am wrong Marah. :) UnderTow
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Brando
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 11:32:34
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UnderTow
Robin Kelly [Cakewalk
]
Because the feature request system is build so it is not tainted by employees trying to get their personal features in. We want to put your features in.
Wow. I hope you are just being a sales person telling the customer what you think they want to hear and that this does not reflect Cakewalks feature inclusion policy. If it does, it bodes very badly for the future of Cakewalk and Sonar.
Building an advanced piece of software by committee is misguided at best. Please correct the above statement and tells us that the decision makers at Cakewalk are intelligent enough to decide which new feature are worth implementing. Please tell us that Cakewalk have a clear vision for the future of their flagship product, a clear path to excellence. Please tell us that they are not blindly reacting to the popularity of any feature request.
Frankly I hope you just pulled the above quoted sentence out of thin air without giving it too much thought. It might have sounded right to you. It might even still sound right to you despite this post. I can tell you that it sounds very wrong to me.
UnderTow
C'mon - He's not saying that every FR is acted upon blindly. He's saying that the FR system is designed to poll Cake's users for features they would like to see - you make it sound like the people submitting FR's are writing code. I don't think we should assume that the FR system is the only mechanism for moving SONAR forward - or that all FR's can possibly be incorporated at all, ever.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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John
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 11:41:49
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Susan and John, you seem to be more sensitive to certain wordings and phrasings than people like Marah and myself (if you don't mind me saying that Marah). We seem to be more interested in the actual content of what is being said. I can understand that that will give you a different perception of various posts. That is cool but I think that in this case you are misreading Marah's motivations and intentions. Correct me if I am wrong Marah. :) UnderTow Please show any post from Marah that is positive in regards Sonar. She is a good writer and highly able to get her thoughts across. It is this that makes me question what motivates her. When I first read her under a different name I was a cheerleader in the freshness and thoughtfulness in her writings. But now she is a broken record.
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UnderTow
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 11:48:43
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John
Please show any post from Marah that is positive in regards Sonar.
Every single post that proposes an improvement to Sonar, the forum or the way Cakewalk is run which is every single post she makes. Can't you see that? UnderTow
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keith
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 12:18:04
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UnderTow
I see the exact opposite. The way I see it Marah has half left the building because she is disillusioned about Sonar as a DAW. That disillusionment is what comes through in her posts [...]
Yes, in the form of pot shots at Cakewalk itself... like questioning their ability to design software (not sure what qualifies her to make statements in this area, but anyway...), how Cakewalk may be a failing company, and on and on... I get the sense that Marah wishes three things, in this order: 1.) Cockos had the resources of a Cakewalk or a Steinberg or a whoever to do Reaper x10 (ironically enough!) 2.) Cakewalk would do business more like Cockos does business (even though within it's market, Cockos is different than most businesses, and in a unique position to be different; not to mention that Cockos' business model, like most things in life, is not one-size-fits-all) 3.) SONAR gets the fixes and enhancements needed to make it a better piece of software
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Brando
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 12:36:50
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Susan G
To be honest, I don't think you really do wish Cakewalk well at this point. I just don't see that sentiment reflected in any of your recent posts.
IMO I think there are a few vocal former (maybe casual?) SONAR users who have become very direct and pointed in their criticisms of it, it's workflow, etc. Constructive criticism would be one thing, but many posts seem to go way beyond that. A certain user's anti-x64 posts come to mind as an example. (No problem at all if someone sees no potential use for x64 - why ridicule those who see its advantage?). Out of curiosity, I have tried Reaper, largely due to what seemed to be very favorably expressed opinions in these forums. I personally think it is far, far inferior to SONAR, (at this point in its implementation). But I don't go to the Cockos forum and tell their developer that he doesn't have a clue about MIDI implementation, for example. (Constructive input and feature requests are of course a different thing, and are an important part of any DAW's evolution, IMO). It's funny that it seems I have seen criticisms about things like SONAR's notation capabilities from (former?) users who have in some cases moved to DAWs that do not even have basic/fundamental MIDI implementation - or any notation capability at all. It is fine if a user wants to run their DAW software from a thumb drive, or has no use for MIDI (or soft synths, or plug-ins, or...). I wonder what the expectation is when visiting the SONAR forums? I seriously doubt that Cake is using the ability to run from a thumb drive as a design objective for SONAR. Of course, any DAW user who sees an advantage to running software from a thumb drive would see SONAR as bloated, and should instead use whatever is right for them. Personally I do not. In some cases it looks like former users are looking for vindication in their selection of new DAW software. Personally, I am not ready to join the rebellion. (sorry for the length of this post).
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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AndyW
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 13:17:38
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Robin Kelly [Cakewalk
]
See, this is what I'm talking about in that other thread. It's not enough that ol Robin just read it his very own self AND LIKES IT, he still demands that the one who posted the idea put a paper sack over their head, stand on one leg and scream like a chicken. Why can't you, Robin, bein a go-gettin employee make such known to Cake your own self, thereby featherin your own nest? You do see, I hope, how like the military you just seemed. All ideas must be filed in in triplicate and turned into the quartermaster where they will be assessed and logged with appropriate nomenclature which, in this case, is, if memory serves, CRM114. After this numerical tag has been secured your "idea" will be slated for admission into the que...the wait time at present is 6 to 12 weeks. Any grammer, syntax or spelling errors may delay action on your specified protocol. Please include your name, serial number and reason for submission in no more than 65 words. Thank you for your efforts and may you continue to live in peace, and health through the purity of your essential bodily fluids.
Because the feature request system is build so it is not tainted by employees trying to get their personal features in. We want to put your features in.
To your second point I am not going to open that can or worms. if I say, "Cool I will speak to Noel about it" I am guaranteeing that Noel will be peppered constantly about the feature request. I can see the multi page threads now about employee X was told by employee Y about my feature request, what is the status?
Please understand I am pointing out how to get your features into the system. I am not offering short cuts, trying to be lazy (hence posting on the weekend). So instead of taking shots how about a return to the discussion?
Robin, Feel free to ignore the idiots. Some of us appreciate the fact that you guys(and gals) post in here. Where else would a CTO talk directly to the customer and risk the hassle of things like the example you pointed out? Having a formal feature request system makes sense. I trust that you folks do triage on the requests you get(something some were implying you didn't) and also develop some of your own based on your research in the market and what the product vision is. I think most of us here "get" that by applying common sense, despite some of the more vocal posts in this thread.
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UnderTow
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 13:46:40
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Brando
IMO
Out of curiosity, I have tried Reaper, largely due to what seemed to be very favorably expressed opinions in these forums. I personally think it is far, far inferior to SONAR, (at this point in its implementation). But I don't go to the Cockos forum and tell their developer that he doesn't have a clue about MIDI implementation, for example.
That would be really weird and that is not what is going on here. What is happening here is that long term Sonar users are getting disappointed in the way Sonar is evolving. I don't understand how so many can somehow twist this all into some kind of mean and pointless attack on Cakewalk. It is neither mean, we do it because we care about the product, nor is it pointless, we do it because we want improvements. Well at least I do. Sure the comments can be quite acerbic at times. IMO a big part of the reason for that is the continued posts from people that somehow seem to feel the need to defend Sonar/Cakewalk. There are some legitimate complains about some things Cakewalk have/are doing but then the peanut gallery comes in defending Cakewalk. Why? THAT is pointless. Cakewalk is a company. Not your favourite sports team. These reactions only lead to frustrate the people with legitimate complaints even more. Some things that Cakewalk have done/are doing really are not very smart. (Like the way the clip selection after splitting changed in 8.0 I think). If people have legitimate complaints, even if they are not worded in th kindest way, let them. Don't add static to the signal by trying to "help" a company that really does not need your help.
It is fine if a user wants to run their DAW software from a thumb drive, or has no use for MIDI (or soft synths, or plug-ins, or...). I wonder what the expectation is when visiting the SONAR forums? I seriously doubt that Cake is using the ability to run from a thumb drive as a design objective for SONAR. Of course, any DAW user who sees an advantage to running software from a thumb drive would see SONAR as bloated, and should instead use whatever is right for them. Personally I do not.
Considering the size of USB sticks these days (256GB and growing!), every DAW could be portable but anyway, I think the ability to run from a thumb drive says alot about code efficiency and elegance and I do find that important even though I have never felt the need to run anything directly from a USB stick without installation.
In some cases it looks like former users are looking for vindication in their selection of new DAW software. Personally, I am not ready to join the rebellion. (sorry for the length of this post).
Funny. It seems to me many current users of Sonar feel the need to vindicate their DAW choice by refusing to see some of its shortcomings. UnderTow
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UnderTow
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 13:48:59
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AndyW
I trust that you folks do triage on the requests you get(something some were implying you didn't)
Talk about being idiotic... UnderTow
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AndyW
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 14:03:56
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UnderTow
AndyW
I trust that you folks do triage on the requests you get(something some were implying you didn't)
Talk about being idiotic...
UnderTow
You really think they don't weigh every feature request but blindly put them in?
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Brando
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 14:11:38
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UnderTow
Funny. It seems to me many current users of Sonar feel the need to vindicate their DAW choice by refusing to see some of its shortcomings.
Or maybe what you see as a shortcoming is not seen as such a big deal by such current users. Those who generally like SONAR and who openly state their preference are often painted as "fan boys" in these forums. You said this wasn't a "sports team". Just maybe - we actually like the software the way it is and actually have compared it to some of the competition, and in spite of its foibles - still think it is the best option out there for the type of work we use it for. Imagine that. And don't get me wrong - constructive criticisms are always a good thing - and I am not opposed to an enthusiastic argument. It means people care. I have never had an issue with any of your viewpoints, to my knowledge, FWIW. Or for calls for improvement in general, bug fixes, feature requests, or whatever. I can, however, think of at least a couple of "users" who have clearly made a decision to move on - and who still keep coming back uber-critical of cake's direction. To the point of ridiculing its present user-base. Just like it's their right to be here and to comment, it shouldn't be a surprise when posters make an observation that this appears to be happening.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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Robin Kelly [Roland]
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 14:12:06
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Nothing idiotic about the question at all. Please refrain from posting in that tone as it helps no one.
Andy W, yes we do triage the requests, good question.
That's my blog Omnia illa et ante fiebant, Omnia illa et rursus fient.
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UnderTow
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 14:31:52
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Robin Kelly [Cakewalk
]
Nothing idiotic about the question at all. Please refrain from posting in that tone as it helps no one.
And again you disappoint. Who started calling who an idiot? Are you really that blind? Anyway, it wasn't a question. UnderTow
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AndyW
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 14:34:17
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UnderTow
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 14:35:46
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AndyW
UnderTow
AndyW
I trust that you folks do triage on the requests you get(something some were implying you didn't)
Talk about being idiotic...
UnderTow
You really think they don't weigh every feature request but blindly put them in?
I was referring to the part you wrote between parenthesis. That was idiotic. Do you really not see the point of my post? Are you really licking up that vacuous comment by Robin? "We want to put your features in." *Puke* Whatever... UnderTow
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John
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 14:38:43
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Undertow I know you care about Sonar so do I. I don't question you one bit when you see a need for improvement. That is not the way you go about things here. You have a balanced view and you have never said the Sonar is old or that that CW is not up to the challenge. A lot that Marah uses to bad mouth Sonar are things I have myself brought into question about Sonar. No one has been as vocal for example with the way notation is in Sonar. In the past I was a one man crusade to get the Mackie Control fully supported. The list of my wants and improvements are long and posted on this forum. At the same time I don't abuse CW or the programmers that write the code. I don't find fault with the notion of Sonar. More importantly I do more then just complain. I enter into threads and participate with ideas. Ways of doing things. Techniques and the like. Then I have a track record of trying to help here and there.
Show me any of that from Marah. Show where she is not a one note poster.
This all I am going to say about this because I think the matter is clear and I don't want to beat a dead horse.
You and I have had our differences yet I still look upon you as a valued member with a lot of useful info to share.
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jackn2mpu
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 14:39:44
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A couple of things:
Robin:
Thanks for posting and staying on an even keel. Wish more would do the same.
And on that thought, why is it when someone runs another piece of daw software (on any computer platform) they feel compelled to come here and run down Sonar? I freely admit I'm trying DP6 on a Mac I have here for a whole host of reasons, but none of those is because I have something against Sonar. I do question some of the things Cake has done with the program but for most of what I do it works well enough. Probably the biggest reason I'm using DP is a growing dislike for the pc platform and Windows in particular. But that's a totally separate argument from the fitness of Sonar to do the job. And I will continue to use Sonar, even though I won't update to the latest/greatest (?) version until such time as my daw computer dies.
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AndyW
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 14:43:57
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UnderTow
Robin Kelly [Cakewalk
]
Nothing idiotic about the question at all. Please refrain from posting in that tone as it helps no one.
And again you disappoint. Who started calling who an idiot? Are you really that blind? Anyway, it wasn't a question.
UnderTow
I'll cop to that one...yoropal's tone really put me off(I actually had to go back and see who made the original quote). So I apologize to yorolpal...I still don't like his tone in that post but I should have been more civil in my response. UT, you I still don't "get". You have stated many times that you are happy with your PT system...why are you here? I mean, you are obviously a smart guy and IMO have contributed a lot to this forum..now your tone has become "mean" for lack of a better word and you seem to like dressing down CW employees? I just don't get it. The dude is in here on a *Sunday* talking with us...and all you want to do is tell him how crappy a job he and his company are doing? I don't consider myself a fanboi...SONAR has issues I'd like addressed, but for my workflow it pretty much just works. I express what I don't like with the available tools CW gives us. If SONAR evolves into a tool I don't like, I will simply find something else or use an older version for a long time. Is it really more complicated than that?
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AndyW
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 14:48:20
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UnderTow
AndyW
UnderTow
AndyW
I trust that you folks do triage on the requests you get(something some were implying you didn't)
Talk about being idiotic...
UnderTow
You really think they don't weigh every feature request but blindly put them in?
I was referring to the part you wrote between parenthesis. That was idiotic. Do you really not see the point of my post? Are you really licking up that vacuous comment by Robin? "We want to put your features in." *Puke*
Whatever...
UnderTow
I would hope that a company listens to it's customers feature requests and weighs requests for "fuzzy dice on the mirror" against "better gas mileage" appropriately. It is clear you have some anger issue going on here...I'll let you deal with that however it works for you. It's just software, man.
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UnderTow
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 14:53:40
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Brando
Or maybe what you see as a shortcoming is not seen as such a big deal by such current users. Those who generally like SONAR and who openly state their preference are often painted as "fan boys" in these forums. You said this wasn't a "sports team". Just maybe - we actually like the software the way it is and actually have compared it to some of the competition, and in spite of its foibles - still think it is the best option out there for the type of work we use it for. Imagine that. On the surface this might sound like a valid point but to me it makes no sense. If one truly believes that and if one really has nothing to complain about then you have exactly what you want right now! The current version of Sonar is perfect for you, end of story. It then makes no sense to argue against any proposed improvement (however negatively it might be presented) unless one is reacting in a knee-jerk fashion to defend one's DAW choice. It will always be a "fan" thing. (I don't mean it negatively in this case). That's cool but it is an emotional thing, not a rational thing and I think it is best left out of feature request/criticism threads especially if there is already a sense of frustration from the poster one is reacting to. If you are happy, cool but some of us are not and want improvements. Maybe we will never be happy. That is not a bad thing. Things keep evolving and moving forward. The competition keeps evolving and moving forward. We ourselves keep evolving and moving forward so our needs and wishes also evolve and move forward. We just want Sonar to do the same. Hopefully at least generally in the direction we want. :-) And don't get me wrong - constructive criticisms are always a good thing - and I am not opposed to an enthusiastic argument. It means people care. I have never had an issue with any of your viewpoints, to my knowledge, FWIW. Or for calls for improvement in general, bug fixes, feature requests, or whatever.
I can, however, think of at least a couple of "users" who have clearly made a decision to move on - and who still keep coming back uber-critical of cake's direction. To the point of ridiculing its present user-base. Just like it's their right to be here and to comment, it shouldn't be a surprise when posters make an observation that this appears to be happening.
Maybe I haven't read the same messages that you have. I have been away from the forum for a while because of workload. But I do see the same trends now as last time I was here: A few vocal supporters that tend to put down feature requests or criticisms. Maybe the tide has changed and there are more complaints than there used to be (That in itself should be a warning to Cakewalk) but if it is refering to posts like the ones I have read from Marah, then I just don't agree. (You can see my interpretation of her posts in a previous post I made). UnderTow
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UnderTow
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 14:58:54
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AndyW
UT, you I still don't "get". You have stated many times that you are happy with your PT system...why are you here?
That is easy. I am a Cakewalk customer. I use Sonar at home. :) I don't even own a PT system. I do use PT systems nearly daily at the various studios I work at.
now your tone has become "mean" for lack of a better word and you seem to like dressing down CW employees?
*sigh* I guess you are right and I should apologise for that. Sorry Robin. I shouldn't talk to you (or anyone) like that. UnderTow
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AndyW
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Re: The first one by bitman Silver Member
2009/10/04 15:11:31
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UnderTow
AndyW
UT, you I still don't "get". You have stated many times that you are happy with your PT system...why are you here?
That is easy. I am a Cakewalk customer. I use Sonar at home. :) I don't even own a PT system. I do use PT systems nearly daily at the various studios I work at.
Cool...I have no studios besides my own to work at so you obviously bring a broader experience to the table than I. I just had you pigeonholed in my mind into being a ProTools user who dabbled with us "common folk" in SONAR .
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