Harpo
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Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
Hi All!
I just added a MOTU 828mk3 firewire interface to my system.
I think it was a good decision, though the installation process warranted me to buy another Firewire controller card.
I installed the interface and the new firewire card, and everything on that end seems like it's okay.
But Sonar X1 is crashing almost continuously now.
Every project that I open is saying there's a missing device (my old interface) so I have to redirect and point to my 828mk3, and then save almost every project I open up.
So now I'm wondering if I should reinstall Sonar X1 because of the hardware changes.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this one?
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NoahRane
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/08 11:40:51
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Did you remove the old device from you device list and restart (I would even reboot)? It's the simple things that alway bite me.
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NoahRane
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/08 11:43:51
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Also, did you update the driver for the new card?
Bradford Guy (AKA: Noah Rane) Gigabyte GA-880GA-UD3H
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/08 11:53:16
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Is your New MOTU mk3 the Hybrid one that has USB and Firewire?
Either way, you shouldn't have to redirect your old projects to that card.
Try deleting your AUD.ini file and let Sonar build another one
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Harpo
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/08 11:55:49
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Hi NoahRane
Did all that!
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Harpo
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/08 11:57:23
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Hi CJaysMusic
And where exactly would I find that file?
(do a search for it?)
and.... Yes it is the 828mk3 "Hybrid"
*Sonar PE 8.5.3 - Sonar X1 & X2 Producer Expanded
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/08 12:23:04
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Use the USB, its way way way better.
The AUD.ini file is in your Edit - Preference - Configuration File
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NoahRane
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/08 12:24:35
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I found my file in my personal C:\Users\Noah/AppData\Roaming\Cakewalk\SONAR X Producer\AUD.ini. So it's gonna be in the app data somewhere I would believe.
Bradford Guy (AKA: Noah Rane) Gigabyte GA-880GA-UD3H
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NoahRane
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/08 12:33:54
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CJ, I just took a look at your credentials....I think i will be quiet now :-) Have a great day! Glad there is someone here who is as knowledgable and enjoys helping and teaching as much as you!
post edited by NoahRane - 2011/10/09 16:40:17
Bradford Guy (AKA: Noah Rane) Gigabyte GA-880GA-UD3H
AMD PhenomII Black x6 1100T 3.3Mhz
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3 Seagate GoFlex 2TB Externals
M-Audio Delta 1010 LT
Sonar X1c Producer
Novation 49SL MK2
Alesis Control Pad
Native Instuments Maschine
Tascam CD-RW900SL
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Tweakberry
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/08 12:41:37
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CJaysMusic
Use the USB, its way way way better.
Hi, can you elaborate more?, i have the 828 hybrid as well and was thinking of trying the USB port, im currently using the firewire interface without any problems (as long as i keep the buffer at 256 samples when using amplitube 3 with high quality settings latency is ~5ms which is acceptable), anyway i was thinking of switching over to the USB temporarily just to see if i would notice any difference, wasnt sure if i would gain anything or waste my time considering im doing good with firewire, thanks
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/08 13:13:46
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Hi, can you elaborate more?, i have the 828 hybrid as well and was thinking of trying the USB port, im currently
using the firewire interface without any problems (as long as i keep the buffer at 256 samples when using amplitube 3
with high quality settings latency is ~5ms which is acceptable), anyway i was thinking of switching over to
the USB temporarily just to see if i would notice any difference, wasnt sure if i would gain anything or waste my time
considering im doing good with firewire, thanks
You may be able get you mk3 under 1ms when using the usb without any artifacts. Although your pc plays a role in this also. Just try it and see what works best for you, as each daw will and can behave differently. I use the mk3 hybrid for mixing and USB out performed the firewire and i have 2 different TI FW chipsets that i tried. I just think UDB 2.0 is better with this interface And Thanks Noah
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adrian4u
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/09 05:54:13
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I had problems with RECORDING - but it wasn't really issue concerned with MOTU - it was SONARs issue! I have MOTU 828mk3 FW and it works as a breeze - with latency 64samples on 48kHz/24bits !
Delete AUD.INI first, and from hardware point of wiev - install latest FIRMWARE to your MOTU and latest DRIVERS. btw. I had no need to adding additional FireWire card to my PC. It works great on onboard VIA chipset FireWire!!!! @ CJaysMusic- there's no option to get 1ms latency in SONAR with MOTU - lovest latency in panel is 64ms, and on these settings in 48/24mode you can achieve 5,6ms overall latency (in-processing-out). But it works without any arifacts! :)
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat  *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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bobguitkillerleft
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/09 05:55:05
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The USB trip with the 828hybrid is definitely GOOD news.someone[store person] told me the USB will never work and was added as an afterthought,also on the MOTU site they barely mention USB,only the included FW cable giving the store dude story no credibility but just something I noticed,
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Tweakberry
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/09 09:27:29
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adrian4u
I had problems with RECORDING - but it wasn't really issue concerned with MOTU - it was SONARs issue!
I have MOTU 828mk3 FW and it works as a breeze - with latency 64samples on 48kHz/24bits !
Delete AUD.INI first, and from hardware point of wiev - install latest FIRMWARE to your MOTU and latest DRIVERS.
btw. I had no need to adding additional FireWire card to my PC. It works great on onboard VIA chipset FireWire!!!!
@ CJaysMusic- there's no option to get 1ms latency in SONAR with MOTU - lovest latency in panel is 64ms, and on these settings in 48/24mode you can achieve 5,6ms overall latency (in-processing-out).
But it works without any arifacts! :)
you are confusing buffer size and latency, the buffer size along with the sample rate determines latency, i can get 1.2 ms latency in SONAR with my MOTU at 44.1K, but then i get dropouts when using more intensive plugins such as amplitube, i set the buffer back to 256 samples and its all solid again, my ears just are not fast enough to really notice 5ms anyway
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Tweakberry
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/09 09:31:14
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CJaysMusic
Hi, can you elaborate more?, i have the 828 hybrid as well and was thinking of trying the USB port, im currently
using the firewire interface without any problems (as long as i keep the buffer at 256 samples when using amplitube 3
with high quality settings latency is ~5ms which is acceptable), anyway i was thinking of switching over to
the USB temporarily just to see if i would notice any difference, wasnt sure if i would gain anything or waste my time
considering im doing good with firewire, thanks
You may be able get you mk3 under 1ms when using the usb without any artifacts. Although your pc plays a role in this also.
Just try it and see what works best for you, as each daw will and can behave differently. I use the mk3 hybrid for mixing and USB out performed the firewire and i have 2 different TI FW chipsets that i tried. I just think UDB 2.0 is better with this interface
thanks, been a lurker for awhile here and i trust your advise, i'll try the USB and see
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Tweakberry
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/09 09:36:26
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bobguitkillerleft
The USB trip with the 828hybrid is definitely GOOD news.someone[store person] told me the USB will never work and was added as an afterthought,also on the MOTU site they barely mention USB,only the included FW cable giving the store dude story no credibility but just something I noticed,
i once had a 'store dude' tell me the more expensive heat paste is better because it helps the electrons to wiz through their orbits faster, yes he actually said 'wiz' MOTU mentions the USB interface plenty on the site, the reason they go into details with the firewire cable is because some people may need an adapter to make the FW work, not true with the USB cable
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Harpo
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/09 10:12:21
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adrian4u There's no "Firmware" download for the 828mk3! And I don't know what was up with my original TI firewire card, but it definitely didn't work. I bought this "Vantec" 4 Port Firewire 400 PCI Host Card, and it seems to work fine. But after buying it I read this article on the MOTU website ( http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technotes/fw-chip-on-pci-and-pcmcia-cards/view?searchterm=) discouraging any other chipset other than Texas Instruments. Oddly enough this "Vantec" card has a "VIA VT6306" chipset, but as I said seems to be working fine. Do you think I should I keep this card, or exchange it for the TI chipset card? Harpo
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adrian4u
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/09 10:32:16
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Tweakberry
adrian4u
I had problems with RECORDING - but it wasn't really issue concerned with MOTU - it was SONARs issue!
I have MOTU 828mk3 FW and it works as a breeze - with latency 64samples on 48kHz/24bits !
Delete AUD.INI first, and from hardware point of wiev - install latest FIRMWARE to your MOTU and latest DRIVERS.
btw. I had no need to adding additional FireWire card to my PC. It works great on onboard VIA chipset FireWire!!!!
@ CJaysMusic- there's no option to get 1ms latency in SONAR with MOTU - lovest latency in panel is 64ms, and on these settings in 48/24mode you can achieve 5,6ms overall latency (in-processing-out).
But it works without any arifacts! :)
you are confusing buffer size and latency, the buffer size along with the sample rate determines latency, i can get 1.2 ms latency in SONAR with my MOTU at 44.1K, but then i get dropouts when using more intensive plugins such as amplitube, i set the buffer back to 256 samples and its all solid again, my ears just are not fast enough to really notice 5ms anyway
screenshot please :P
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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Tweakberry
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/09 13:47:24
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adrian4u
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/09 16:35:31
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OK, I use ASIO, so real latency IN-Sonar-OUT is +/- 5,6ms
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/09 16:46:07
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Oddly enough this "Vantec" card has a "VIA VT6306" chipset, but as I said seems to be working fine. Do you think I should I keep this card, or exchange it for the TI chipset card? Bingo! Just because the driver installs... that doesn't mean everything is fine... or that the unit will perform well. Swap out the new FW controller for another TI chipset unit. ADS, and SIIG both make good TI chipset units. The issue with the original FW controller was an odd incompatibility. Yes, it can happen even with TI chipset units... but it's rare.
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Tweakberry
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/09 16:58:30
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adrian4u
OK, I use ASIO, so real latency IN-Sonar-OUT is +/- 5,6ms
right, as far as latency is concerned here if WaveRT drivers are an option, and you havent tried WaveRT yet, give those drivers a try, select WaveRT in MOTU audio console, then select WDM driver mode in SONAR, i tried ASIO and WaveRT and WaveRT had considerably lower latency, i can get 2.4ms at 128 samples/44.1K and most of the time have no problems with dropouts, but i leave the MOTU set to 256 samples because i use amplitube at high settings so much, plus like i said earlier i dont notice the latency at 5ms anyway, hell i probably wouldnt notice 10ms
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adrian4u
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/11 18:01:02
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@ Tweakberry I was testing WaveRT today - latency just LOOKS good on screen. But in a - fact it isn't so good with these drivers. Moreover Sonar has to "think" too long and likes to hang. I will stay with ASIO.
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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Phonic
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/11 22:27:40
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I had been using the WDM drivers, but I found that after recording a take in time that the playback would be out of time. The only solution was to change to ASIO. Perhaps I will have to try the WDM drivers again now that MOTU have updated their drivers (I tried WDM with the older driver).
It seems to me that one advantage of WDM is that you can use more than one interface at a time which you cannot do with ASIO. This is rather useless though if the recording is out of time.
Come to think of it, perhaps the recoding was out of time because I was using a latency increasing plugin. Anyways, not trying to de-rail the thread.
i7 4770k @ 3.5 Ghz 24 GB DDR 3 Windows 7 64 bit Sonar Platinum Foxboro 64 bit MOTU 828 MK3 UAD-2 Quad
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adrian4u
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Re:Sonar X1 / MOTU 828mk3
2011/10/12 06:23:49
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@ Phonic only using ASIO4ALL you can use more than 1 interface at once, but keep in mind that asio4all is just WDM wrapper, so latency will be relatively high if you want to achieve multitrack recording without dropouts. I tried and tested it few times with Edirol's interfaces (M16-DX and UA-1000 together), and they worked without dropouts with buffor =+ 128 samples, what gave latency IN-Sonar-OUT about 6ms. But to have comfort and be sure, using asio4all it's better to set up bufor more than 256 samples.
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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