firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 07:50:08
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John - you're really defending Vista? I've had 2 computers (personal) and 2 friends that had Vista (actually 3 but one returned to XP) and we ALL had problems with it. Lol... maybe you got a "different" Vista :) ... Oh yes, the specs: Mac Pro 12 core, 32gb ram, Bootcamped with Win 7 - Aurora 16 (had a Rosetta 200 but had to sell it because they don't develop soft for Windows anymore... starting with... you guessed it... Vista). Started working in studios when I was 16, when 2 inch analog was still around (anybody remember the Otari behemoths?), moved to Pro Tools and grudgingly learned it, found it very restrictive. Tried Logic... then found my "match" in Sonar. So I've been "around the block" a few times in the recording world, both PC and Mac.
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firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 08:02:33
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 08:23:11
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I think Win 8 is going to prove to be a bit transitional and experimental, and whatever comes after it will make more sense (which would follow the usual MS pattern). From what I know of it, the underlying tech is all much improved, largely outperforming Win 7 on the same hardware, and that's welcome. However, the current implementation of how it deals with the start menu, if you're trying to use it a legacy form is flat out garbage. I say that as someone who is completely open to change. I don't mind it being *different*, but how it's handled in the preview builds is laugh-out-loud bad user experience, IMO.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 08:27:30
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firefly9000
John - you're really defending Vista? I've had 2 computers (personal) and 2 friends that had Vista (actually 3 but one returned to XP) and we ALL had problems with it. Lol... maybe you got a "different" Vista :) ... Oh yes, the specs: Mac Pro 12 core, 32gb ram, Bootcamped with Win 7 - Aurora 16 (had a Rosetta 200 but had to sell it because they don't develop soft for Windows anymore... starting with... you guessed it... Vista). Started working in studios when I was 16, when 2 inch analog was still around (anybody remember the Otari behemoths?), moved to Pro Tools and grudgingly learned it, found it very restrictive. Tried Logic... then found my "match" in Sonar. So I've been "around the block" a few times in the recording world, both PC and Mac.
I'm running Vista now 64 bits. It seems you upgraded your OS to Vista which would imply it was an older system. If the system was not Vista ready it may not have run well. Also I wonder if you did a fully clean install of Vista? Did you get SP 2 for Vista? I stand by the fact that Vista is a very stable OS. That can not take into account poor hardware though. You can keep echoing that Vista was/is a poor OS when the real facts show otherwise. For more information Read This
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firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 08:38:51
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Hi John - I respect your opinion but I highly disagree with it. All computers I'm talking about were bought with Vista on them. But the proof is in the puddin' as they say... MS themselves gave up on Vista. Also, the facts do NOT show Vista to be a good system - except for some that really took to it (like you) and tried to defend it. That OS was a nightmare for the majority of people. I just remembered my cousin buying a Vista laptop (pretty powerful one at that)... Luckily 7 came out a few months later and after a clean install it his laptop worked perfectly. But if it works for you, more power to you... just saying for the majority of us. For every pro-Vista thread and article that you show me I'll show you 100 that are the opposite.
post edited by firefly9000 - 2012/05/24 08:48:27
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firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 08:44:42
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John T - I completely agree with you. I love progress and I'm not against it. It just has to be usable though. I'll be happy to give Win 8 the props it deserves should it perform well. What I mean by that isn't just driver support etc... but also the interface and possibilities it offers. Also, what it loads into memory and the processes it has running in the background. IMHO that's where Vista fell short - too many things happening in that OS which made the computer rather slow and not too responsive.
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Guitarpima
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 08:46:51
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Pointless thread. Apple will eventually fall away. The innovation died. Sure, they'll be on top for a few more years until tech moves past them. Besides, who wants a mac anyway? There is zero customization compared to Windows.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 08:55:00
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Guitarpima - You may be right but what makes you think Windows will be on top FOREVER? With the advent of cell phone technology MS lost a big piece of the market and now you have Google moving in - right now with just phone OS and those Google notebooks... Small step I grant you, but to think that MS will be king of OS forever isn't that realistic either. As for the "innovation died" at Apple comment, I take it you refer to Jobs - in that case innovation retired at MS (see Bill Gates), now we're all doomed :) .... Anyway, what's so pointless about discussing this since Win 8 is close to "knocking on our door" as we speak?
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chuckebaby
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 09:07:18
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i think vista is stable now for the most part,but a little too late in my opinion. http://www.pcworld.com/article/162866-3/the_10_worst_operating_systems_of_all_time.html i was one of those people that bought a brand new computer when vista first came out and it was basically a 1400.00 email machine. but like i said and to be fair,i still have that computer(my wifes)and it runs well. the headaches though,wow. i thought for sure vista was going to put microsoft and the pc out when this first happen.lol.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 09:14:17
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Charlie - your experience with Vista is very familiar to me. Thank goodness for Win7.
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 09:24:23
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chuckebaby
i think vista is stable now for the most part,but a little too late in my opinion.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/162866-3/the_10_worst_operating_systems_of_all_time.html
i was one of those people that bought a brand new computer when vista first came out and it was basically a 1400.00 email machine.
but like i said and to be fair,i still have that computer(my wifes)and it runs well.
the headaches though,wow.
i thought for sure vista was going to put microsoft and the pc out when this first happen.lol.
If you guys would read the thread I reference you will see how that happened. It was not Vista but the way many computer builders failed to upgrade their hardware for Vista. Laptops in particular were shoved out built for XP yet were touted as Vista ready. MS had to change the logo for hardware that would run Vista well because they didn't require that the builders comply with their specs in order to use the old logo. Win 7 and Vista are much the same OS.
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firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 09:31:10
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John - I get what you're saying - BUT I know many like my cousin that had bought Vista computers, had problems, then installed Win 7 on the SAME computer and it worked beautifully. So how does that square against what you're trying to say that the hardware was not ready for Vista. If Vista and 7 are the same then somebody changing from Vista to Win 7 should not see that much of a difference... but they DO. SAME hardware - Vista has problems, Win 7 runs good.
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mudgel
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 09:34:15
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I actually got better DPC latency results with VISTA SP2 (x64) on my Studio machine (see sig) than I do with Win 7 (x64). Go figure.
I've made the move to Win 7 permanent but that was only to keep up and some video/graphics drivers became a bit flaky on VISTA otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.
Making generalisations about "most' people is a bit misleading I think. My personal experience only.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 09:38:43
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firefly9000
John - I get what you're saying - BUT I know many like my cousin that had bought Vista computers, had problems, then installed Win 7 on the SAME computer and it worked beautifully. So how does that square against what you're trying to say that the hardware was not ready for Vista. If Vista and 7 are the same then somebody changing from Vista to Win 7 should not see that much of a difference... but they DO. SAME hardware - Vista has problems, Win 7 runs good.
It could be easily explained in how the installs were setup. What resources are used and how the system was modified. Further I don't know anything about your cousin. LOL Not having his laptop its really hard for me to have any sort of opinion on it.
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firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 09:42:27
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mudgel - Ok fair point. So instead of saying most people I'll just say me and the people I know plus most of the posts on the net and articles. You yourself say you've had problems with Vista. I get your point about less latency and since I don't know your specs and conditions for running the test I cannot comment. However, at the end of the day it's about having a system that is stable... As you said yourself "some video/graphics drivers became a bit flaky on VISTA" - that is what I was referring to when I said unstable. Personally I've grown out of being impressed with how many nano-craps a system has (substitute "nano-craps" for megahertz, gigabytes or any other technical benchmarking factor) and I'm much more impressed with stability. But that's just me :)
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 09:52:02
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I'm not really bothered about the whole Mac vs PC thing, but it's worth noting that the market share of Mac is continuing to rise even while the desktop market shrinks overall. I don't think Apple are going away any time soon.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 09:52:17
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firefly9000
mudgel - Ok fair point. So instead of saying most people I'll just say me and the people I know plus most of the posts on the net and articles. You yourself say you've had problems with Vista. I get your point about less latency and since I don't know your specs and conditions for running the test I cannot comment. However, at the end of the day it's about having a system that is stable... As you said yourself "some video/graphics drivers became a bit flaky on VISTA" - that is what I was referring to when I said unstable. Personally I've grown out of being impressed with how many nano-craps a system has (substitute "nano-craps" for megahertz, gigabytes or any other technical benchmarking factor) and I'm much more impressed with stability. But that's just me :)
I object to a blanket denouement of Vista in the same way I have X1. Sure many people have had problems with Vista but many more did not. The same is true of X1. I can't know why some have a very pleasant time with these and some others don't. It varies greatly from machine to machine. That does not mean that its always the machine's fault. Often times its user error. Also, with anything, the ones complaining are the ones we hear. We don't see contented users posting a lot. Also Apple did all it could to trash Vista. Let us not forget that fact.
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firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 09:53:43
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Can somebody help me out here - How come my posts get squished together... All the different paragraphs get removed and everything becomes one huge paragraph. I like to be able to line-space my thoughts... :(
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firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 10:01:22
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John - You yourself say "It varies greatly from machine to machine." - But isn't the mark of a great system (such as 7) NOT to vary that greatly from machine to machine? I'm not sure that a system that runs well on let's say 50% of machines using it qualifies as a great OS. (the percentages are just for example but you get my point)
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 10:03:44
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firefly9000
Can somebody help me out here - How come my posts get squished together... All the different paragraphs get removed and everything becomes one huge paragraph. I like to be able to line-space my thoughts... :(
Unfortunately its the forum software. I use FireFox as my browser but if I update it it will not see this forum for editing correctly. So I am stuck with FF5. All seems to work well with FF5 but it would be nice to get the latest version. We all need to ask CW to upgrade the forum software.
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firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 10:07:14
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1 2 test (turns out they use html)
post edited by firefly9000 - 2012/05/24 10:36:06
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firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 10:31:16
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Before we get sidetracked on a Vista vs. 7 debate, the original post was much more towards the following:
1. Apple is used in the majority of the Pro-Music Industry world. This is a fact whether we like or not. Ignoring it will not make it go away. While the discussion might be uncomfortable it nevertheless is not pointless... after all, we're not in the potato selling business. Apple isn't going away anytime soon, much less as far as the music industry is concerned.
2. Windows is also moving in new directions.
3. Having been a ProTools & Logic user I can attest to Sonar's feasibility to being part of the "big boys club" and even showing a thing or two to Logic and PT. PT is going downhill fast - they STILL don't have the freeze option yet... and Logic is very low grade compared to Sonar's possibilities. However, having said that, Sonar needs to up their video workflow and work out some kinks.
I respect everybody's views on the issue (pro or against). What I don't understand are those that say "let's not talk about this" - it's like ignoring the elephant in the room. Also, I am not trying to be combative in my posts. Just trying to talk it out and think outside the box.
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BlixYZ
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 11:01:11
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The fact is, there are MANY people who consider using Sonar if it didn't meaning leaving MAC.
I personally know quite a few people who are intrigued by Sonar, but they are die-hard Mac users so it is out of the question (for now).
I'm not aware of any down-side for Sonar to release a Mac version. There would be quite an industry buzz if they did it!
It is currently cheaper and easier to do this than ever before.
From a business standpoint, I think it's a no-brainer.
James W BlixYZ Recording Studio BlixYZ Records Audient ASP800 thru Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 Mackie Control Universal + C4 Yamaha HS50's plus Matching Sub, Tannoy 501a Blue Baby Bottle, AT 4050, Neumann TLM 103, etc. UA 610, Focusrite/ART/Neve 2CH. Windows 10
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DW_Mike
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 11:44:20
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John
firefly9000
Can somebody help me out here - How come my posts get squished together... All the different paragraphs get removed and everything becomes one huge paragraph. I like to be able to line-space my thoughts... :(
Unfortunately its the forum software. I use FireFox as my browser but if I update it it will not see this forum for editing correctly. So I am stuck with FF5.
All seems to work well with FF5 but it would be nice to get the latest version.
We all need to ask CW to upgrade the forum software.
I use Chrome and it plays well with the forums. I know a few people that use FF but use Chrome for here. It's a lite program that installs in about a minute if ya want to go that route. FF changes what seems like weekly so I don't think anyone at Cakewalk even bothers to try and keep up with that bloated pile of browser. Mike
Sonar X3 ~ Scarlett 18i6 ~ Home Build DAW
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 12:13:11
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chefmike8888
John
firefly9000
Can somebody help me out here - How come my posts get squished together... All the different paragraphs get removed and everything becomes one huge paragraph. I like to be able to line-space my thoughts... :(
Unfortunately its the forum software. I use FireFox as my browser but if I update it it will not see this forum for editing correctly. So I am stuck with FF5.
All seems to work well with FF5 but it would be nice to get the latest version.
We all need to ask CW to upgrade the forum software.
I use Chrome and it plays well with the forums.
I know a few people that use FF but use Chrome for here.
It's a lite program that installs in about a minute if ya want to go that route.
FF changes what seems like weekly so I don't think anyone at Cakewalk even bothers to try and keep up with that bloated pile of browser.
Mike
Yes I know but I use info enter in FF its a plugin I like. I'm stuck LOL
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firefly9000
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 14:48:37
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BlixYZ - Definitely... Once you put it on a Mac people will try it, little by little, and a majority would probably fall in love with Sonar. I know I did :) and many of my Mac friends are super excited when they see my stacked projects in ways that they cannot accomplish in PT.
I would not say this if I thought Sonar was average or that it could not deliver the goods... but it can.
I am not a programmer so I can't speak to the ease of porting something to Mac from PC, but I see A LOT of small companies doing it. It would be a worthy investment.
As for the fear that opening Sonar to Mac might lead to decreasing value on the PC side - I would argue the opposite. It would increase brand value. Pigeon-holing yourself never really works in the long run, whether it's Mac or PC. There are pro-studios here in NYC (where I am) that can open and run Logic (besides their PT standard). One of the reasons Logic got so popular was BECAUSE it was available for Mac. I can't imagine many people that are new to the music biz and you put Logic and Sonar in front of them and they choose Logic. That's my 2 cents :)
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chuckebaby
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 15:13:56
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mudgel
I actually got better DPC latency results with VISTA SP2 (x64) on my Studio machine (see sig) than I do with Win 7 (x64). Go figure.
I've made the move to Win 7 permanent but that was only to keep up and some video/graphics drivers became a bit flaky on VISTA otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.
Making generalisations about "most' people is a bit misleading I think. My personal experience only.
but doesnt it seem when the general sensis is "most people" then it is there for not mis leading as all? and if vista is as good as you say it is,then why couldnt you make those flaky drivers work? so that would almost put you in the catagory as "most people" because you had an issue as well.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Keni
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/24 17:01:28
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Hi Gang...
Just thought I'd chime in here... I just posted another similar post in another thread...
Sonar already runs on a mac.... Just install windows using bootcamp and all is well... I'm interested in Parallel's app which allows you to run both sin7 and OSX apps alongside each other while in OSX... I don't know how well it handles Sonar (or any other SAW), but ti's a sing of what's coming.... fast!
My main DAW is only a core2duo (2GHz) with only 2G or RAm. It only has Vista 32 on it and everything runs fine... No problems...
I have Vista x64 installed on another pc (HP) which has a quad-core (3GHz) and 4GB RAM... but I can't afford an interface for it and my current (Soundscape/SSL Mixtreme192) is OCI and the machine only has PCIe.... So I await the cash to buy an interface for it...
But all this is moot as I also recently was gifted a MacPro with dual-quad Xeon (3.22GHz and 16GB Ram) processors and running bootcamp has Sonar running just fine with Vista 64.... The problem here is that I can't get the use of all 8 cores until I can replace Vista with win7 pro or ultimate as they are the only windows versions that support more than 4 cores....... Nor can I activate it as it's already activated on the previously mentioned 3GHz (HP)... and didn't seem worth the problems getting it "de-activated" on the HP as it would only support 4 cores...
So I await having the cash to buy interfaces for both of these machines as will as win7 ultimate for the mac which will then become my main pc (I'll make windows the default OS on the mac)... and V-control works fine on all these machines...
So need Cakewalk use any work-hours to build an constantly maintain an actual OSX version? Not in my opinion... I'd much rather they spend all their' time developeing and maintaining a single version of Sonar as all these options get it running perfectly will on Mac hardware....
Just my twelve cents....
Keni
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keith
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/25 01:16:23
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Guitarpima
Pointless thread. Apple will eventually fall away. The innovation died. Sure, they'll be on top for a few more years until tech moves past them. Besides, who wants a mac anyway? There is zero customization compared to Windows.
I just bought 16Gb for my MBP for ~$160. I can put an SSD in there at some point if I want, but why bother... I'm going to grab a Lacie Thunderbolt eSATA frobnitz and plug my sata drives directly over 10Gbps (full duplex, 10Gbps each way at the same time). What more customization do you need except better faster disk, and more memory?
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keith
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Re:Sonar X1 & Mac - The Future Prophet - Hear Me Out
2012/05/25 01:29:25
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John T
I'm not really bothered about the whole Mac vs PC thing, but it's worth noting that the market share of Mac is continuing to rise even while the desktop market shrinks overall. I don't think Apple are going away any time soon.
Speaking as a software developer who has used a mac every day for work, 8-16 hrs/day for the past ~2 years... I can honestly say I'm a fan at this point. Lion had its issues, and don't get me started on Xcode, but for the most part it's a nice piece of hardware with a solid OS. Then again, I'm biased being an old Unix guy... I can put it in and out of sleep mode for days upon days at a time... no need for reboots (well, except for some recent Xcode crapola)... installs and uninstalls are dead simple, etc. That said, I have several win 7 machines here, including this slightly older Core2Duo HP lappy that I'm typing on now... and they're rock solid. I can actually let this laptop go into and out of sleep mode over the course of a week with no problems. And the overall performance, even on this ~6-7 years old hardware is good, even for DAW/softsynth/video/gfx/etc. work. Interestingly, the people doing email and online banking etc. have zero need for a laptop these days... A kindle fire or ipad or whatever works perfectly fine. Even for simple photo retouching and whatnot you don't need a "full computer", per se. It'll be interesting to see where the laptop/desktop market goes over the next 5-10 years as people simplify their technology arsenal down to lightweight devices. You certainly don't need a 6 pound laptop to watch a movie, check your email, transfer some money, by some ebooks and tunes, etc. etc.
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