Sonar X1, cant handle Hyperthreading Enabled computers?

Hello.
 
First of all ... I am a happy Sonar X1 Expanded owner.
But i recently discovered something that maked me wonder.
 
I have visiting Microsoft web site ,for a while ago. And i found a site that listed programs that was certified/approved to
be 100% multithreaded. And Sonar was one of them....so far so good.
 
But... if i opens up the "task manager" in Windows, when Sonar X1 is running, it appears that Sonar only uses
half/every second of the processor cores/threads availible?
I had "Hyperthreading" enabled on my computer.
But whats "pussling" me is that in Sonar X1 you also has this feature, that you can look at how many "cores"/threads that
Sonar uses.
And Sonar "tells" me that it is using every availble core/thread that is availible all my 24 cores/threads.
 
I have a computer with 2 x Xeon 5650, so it has 6x2 physical cores and another 6x2 "cores"/threads when hyperthreading is enabled.
 
In my case, Sonar X1 "tells" me that it is using 24 cores, all in all. But when im looking in Windows "task manager" i can clearly state that it is "load" on every second "Core", so it only uses 12 cores/threads of a total of 24 availible.
 
I hade some instability issues with Sonar, and i tested to disable "Hyperthreading", and i noticed that Sonar worked more stable after that little "surgery".
 
After i hade disbled the "Hyperthreading" feature, Sonar X1 "told" me that it only used "12" cores/threads, so do Windows  "task manager" as well. So when "hyperthreding" is disabled it shows the same info both in Sonar and "Windows Task manager".
 
As i am a senior IT manager/advisor, i have tons of years of experience
"in the fieled".
I draw the conclusion that Sonar X1 cant handle "Hyperthreaded" enabled processors. 
 
Then to my question... is there something that i can do to enable Sonar X1 to use all "Cores"/threads when
"hyperthreding" is enabled?
 
Or is it something that is "under construction"?
 
I have tested to reinstall Sonar X1 a couple of times, i have updated Windows etc.
I have looked inside Sonar X1 configuration files, but i havnt got any luck on this issue.
 
The main reson is that i want to use all of my "Computer Power" availible and hopefully can have a more stable
Sonar X1 when i have the "hyperthreading" feature enabled, MS states that you will gain about 10-30% more
"computing power" when hyperthreading is enabled, it depends on how the application in question is programmed.
 
So all in all, when "hyperthreading" is enabled Sonar X1 "tells" me that it is using 24 threads/cores, when in reality
it only uses 12 ( the actual physical cores ).
 
For what its worth, im using 2 x Xeon 5650, 24 GB ram, RME RayDat Soundcard ( with latest FW and drivers )
and Windows 7 ultimate with all of the updates that is/was availible to current date 20120711.
 
PS! Im happy if someone from the developing team reads this, and make a comment.... im open for a conversation.
 
p=D
 
 //A Concerned Sonar X1 User...aka Stefan.
 

Thanks for your reply.
Thats why i am i little puzzled...
 
I do have some ideas:
1. Every test that i have red about is in a configuration of 1 physical preocessor.
Im using 2 x 6 core processor in a multi processing environment. And there may be is an issue with that kind of environment?
 
2. The installation files that i have maybee some "bug" in the main installation, that is not fixed by later upgrades/fixes?
 
But all in all...i do have this issue, and i have tried find a fix for it for about 1.5 year now.
Unfortunately i have "learned" to live with the problem, but in more recent time i had been
more avare of the issue, anf there fore i have decided to "take the next step" and postthi issue in this forum.
 
And im hopefull...im sure that someone knows whats this is all about, and can give me some postive feeback...and perhaps even give me a direct answer that fixed the problem.
 
P=D  
 
 

Wouldn't you need more data before making your conclusion? You didn't e.g. mention your total CPU utilization. With only one track w/ some effects, Sonar only uses primarily one thread. Here's some speculation: with less than 50% CPU average utilization, it could be smart to allocate only one thread per core, given that the extra threads are only good for 10 to 30% more computing power. At the granularity of scheduling, it could actually slow things down if two activities were scheduled on the same core whenever there's a chance some other core would be left idle (given that hyperthreading tightly couples threads in pairs per core). On the other hand, if you have substantially more than 12 tracks or buses active simultaneously with substantial effects going on, with CPU utilization greater than 50%, then one would think the other threads would start getting hit. For what it's worth, Sonar has a selectable policy for multithreading. See the ThreadSchedulingModel parameter in the aud.ini file. Also, have a look at CPUMeterMode in cakewalk.ini.

Thanks for your comment bvideo: If im buying a new car with a V8 engine, and in the first ride i notice that the engine doesnt work properly, and with further analyse i can "draw a conclusion" that there are only activity on 6 of the 8 cylinders, then i would be very surpised if you say "okay im only doing 50 as a maximum speed, so i dont need the 2 cylinders that doesnt work". Isnt that obvius ... that "what i purchased, i want to work 100%"...is that not a mainstream view, that common people has when you/they buy something?
... at least i have that i mind when purschasing things.
 
I am more than willing to explain my projects, but i want to keep this conversation to the actual problem, not to discuss however i can "rearrange" my projects, and how i should/could do. That discussion is for another "mess-thread".
 
To repaet my self, i have noticed that MY Sonar X1 is a little unstable with hyperthreading enabled, and i think it has to do with the "thread" issue.
To explain my self in short... Sonar X1 crashes frequently when "hyperthreading" is enabled.
 
You put in some usefull advice in your post about "threadschedulingmodel", i cant recall that i have "manipulated" values there...i will check it out a.s.a.p.
If it has any impact on my issue, then i will most certainly post a mess back.
 
:)  
 
Note: My studio is a, what some would like to call, "professional" ( im earning money on it ). My "averege" "CPU" utilization is not more than 35-40%. I have some projects where the CPU utilization is around 80-85%. As you wrote "over 50% cpu utilization the other threads should start getting ´hit´ " ...but nothing happens when it comes to that kind of heavy cpu utilization. It only uses 12 threads of 24 availble.
My project usually is 60+ channels ( and round 10-15 buses ) But it all depends on what project im working with. I do have smaller projects to.
About 20-25 midi channels and around 30-40 ordinary recorded sound channels, on average. bvideo: as you can see the utilization is NOT an issue in this case...
 
Overcourse/Not in this thread question:
bvideo: It seems that you have some deeper technical knowledge on how Sonar X1 works, do you have some tips on how to "load-balancing" pluig ins, when the usual "BitBridgeServer" "adressing" isnt working? Can you configure plugins manually to use a certain "bitbridge" server?
Can you make a bitbridge server "loadbalancing" over serveral threads?
 
 
Thanks in advance...

SONAR most certainly handles hyperthreading and has done so for many years. 
When hypertheading is enabled Windows just exposes the "virtual cores" as if they were a physical core.
In fact from this point if view SONAR doesn't know or care about whether they are virtual or not.

SONAR's engine by default allocates one thread per core. However the utilization is completely dependent on the project load. SONAR's multiprocessing engine parallelizes tracks, buses and synths to threads.
Your post doesn't mention anything about the project you are using. To utilize all 24 threads you would need a minumum of 24 tracks/buses/synths. i.e. if you have a single track in your project only one worker thread would get utilized roughly speaking. To check the utilization from SONAR's point of view look at SONAR's CPU meters - each meter represents a core/thread there. 

If despite having multiple tracks you don't see the cores used you might have a system configuration issue. One thing to investigate in Win7 is try disabling core parking. If core parking is enabled windows can potentially put a core to sleep if it thinks it doesn't need to use it.

Noel: I actually have posted info on my projects ( look above ). And even when the CPU
utilization reaches upp to 80-85% Sonar still uses only 12 threads.
To qoute myself: "My project usually is 60+ channels ( and round 10-15 buses ) But it all depends on what project im working with. I do have smaller projects to.
About 20-25 midi channels and around 30-40 ordinary recorded sound channels, on average."

That thing about "Core Parking", i will try it out...

Thanks for your fast reply...

//Stefan


js516: Idont need any "smart" answers... I write here to get some help, not to make a fool out of people...You know very well what I mean by what I wrote...

Thanks Noel!! Great that you came by!

Hello again.
Ive forgot to mention that im using X64 bit Windows 7, and all ( almost ) plugins are x64 bit as well.