RockerAlex
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Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
I've searched far and wide over Google and these forums and maybe I'm just blind, but I can't find anything to solve my problem. It seems that only recently I've noticed my Sonar X1s volume being totally different to every other program on my PC, it even COMPLETELY IGNORES the volume sliders on the Windows Mixer, it actually doesn't even show up as "Sonar X1" in the volume mixer for some reason, I'm unable to control it's volume whatsoever without, for example, raising the gain a silly amount on a track to get it to level with the other things running on my PC. I can't understand the problem here at all, perhaps it's something to do with my M Audio drivers or a corrupt installion of Sonar X1. Please help. EDIT: Just found that setting my drivers to MME (32bit) makes Sonar X1 show up in the volume mixer. I'm just completely confused now.
post edited by RockerAlex - 2012/03/24 14:38:50
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/24 15:01:19
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COMPLETELY IGNORES the volume sliders on the Windows Mixer
First off, Windows doenst control sonars volume. Imthinking you overlooked somehting, if your having issues with volume. SEcond, you do not use MME driver mode. Use ASIO or WDM Is your maudio card set up in sonar? Do you have the correct, most up to date drivers installed for the maudio? You do not use the windows mixer for Sonar. you use sonard track and console view for mixing volume levels CJ
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RockerAlex
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/24 15:03:39
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I see, I thought that Sonar would obey the overall volume slider on the Windows Mixer seeing as every other program does. Yes I have the most up to date drivers etc, this problem has only started happening recently where everything in Sonar, for some reason, is a lower volume than everything else playing out of my PC. I just can't understand it. I've always used WDM/KS mode until messing about with it today.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/25 08:57:11
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Once you get it set up correctly the volume you get in Sonar should be favorable to other apps in the computer. On my DAW I use my external interface to play several other music players, and the levels are just about the same. No difference..... of course there are volume controls in them .... and yeah the windows mixer is not even in the loop for Sonar.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/25 12:17:31
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Windows Mixer seeing as every other program does Um, after you set up your sound card correclty, the windows mixer is disabled for Sonar, just like every other recording program. Your just not there yet, as far as setting ity up and understaning the signal flow. Thereare soem guides in the help file that explain the signal chain and flow and there is step by step instructions on how to st up your sound card in sonar.
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RockerAlex
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/29 14:26:05
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None this explains why everything I export from Sonar is a million times quiter than the rest of the music/sounds on my PC.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/29 14:30:01
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Its quiet because your not mixing it or mastering it to the correct RMS levels and perceived volume Everything i export form sonar is the correct sound levels. Sonar exports exactly what is there and what its set to. It does not lower your volume. Your just not understanding some concepts judging what your writing in your post. Cj
post edited by CJaysMusic - 2012/03/29 15:15:20
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osd
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/29 14:32:58
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Ya, you may want to go by RMS. VU meters don't lie. What is your peak level on this project?
i7-870 2.93Ghz, 16GB RAM, Radeon HD 5770 + 2 x DisplayLink w/ 4 x 22" screens, Intel SSD 80GB, Sonar X1-D Exp. - Problems? How's your latency? What processes are running? Driver crash?
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bitflipper
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/29 17:30:45
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Alex: SONAR, by design, does not use Windows' internal mixer. And for good reasons. The Windows mixer adds some serious latency and will probably perform an unexpected and unrequested sample rate conversion for you while it's at it. This is one of the reasons Windows Media Player can sound different than SONAR when you're playing your own songs through it. When you converted to MME, you forced SONAR to use the internal mixer. You also picked up additional latency and possibly even sound degradation, and probably increased CPU overhead. MME is generally not recommended for serious audio applications (unless, of course, nothing else works, which can be the case with some bottom-of-the-line audio interfaces). As to why "everything I export from Sonar is a million times quieter than the rest of the music/sounds on my PC", that's not because of Windows or your choice of audio drivers. It's because most of the music you listen to through your computer has been processed to sound louder, and you can do the same thing yourself. It involves raising the average RMS value, and the tool most central to that process is called a limiter - and you have one in X1.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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musicroom
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/30 01:06:02
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@bit I think I speak for a lot of people. We appreciate you around here. Nice of you to stop and help the OP out much better than I could have.
Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
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RockerAlex
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/31 08:41:46
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The project(s) I'm on about seem to be well in the red because I've tried to boost them up ... and still it exports far quieter than I'd expect. I just can't understand it, perhaps instead of telling me I don't get it (which is clearly obvious at this point) you could tell me how to fix it?
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/31 11:28:57
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You need to learn about dynamic control processing. There is no simple solution. If you learn how to use the tools, like compression and limiting, along side some complimentary EQ techniques, there is no reason why you cant get your volume up. Its done all th etime like that. CJ
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bitflipper
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/31 11:33:27
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Common noob mistake, Alex: trying to push the volume up until it's in the red and still not getting the desired loudness. Doesn't work, does it? That's because our perception of loudness is based on average levels, not peak levels. Peaks are still the most important thing to monitor, because we don't want them to exceed 0db. But you can be hitting 0db all over the place and still have a quiet-sounding mix. It's just the way our ears work. What you have to do is raise overall levels without allowing any short-term values to go into the red. That's what makes the song sound louder. The simplest way to accomplish this is to insert Boost11 onto your master bus. It has only one knob so it's easy to figure out, and it graphically shows you what I'm talking about. Turn the knob and you will immediately hear the song getting louder. What Boost11 is doing is raising levels while keeping peaks from being excessive. This is what a limiter does. Boost11, however, is like using a meat cleaver for heart surgery. It works, just not very well. Most folks use alternative tools. But Boost11 does provide an easy way to visualize the concept of using a limiter to raise perceived loudness.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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gcolbert
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/31 13:28:39
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RockerAlex The responders above seem to be making some assumptions about what you know about X1. Possibly the first question is just how much quieter are your recordings than what you were expecting. That you were looking in the Windows mixer to get more control tells me that you might want to specifically set up your signal chain and take a close look at the levels at each point. Second question - do you use busses? My recommendation is that you send all of the audio outputs from all of your tracks to a bus or two. Then, if you are using more than one bus, send the output from the sub busses to a master bus. I would recommend only having one master bus and it should be the only point in the output that actually sends its output to your speakers (sound card, M-Audio whatever). This then becomes a master volume control for the project. This only works if everything eventually goes to this bus as the last step to going to the speakers. Now you have one place that you can evaluate the total output volume of your mix. I would recommend turning on the Waveform Preview of the bus so that you can get a visual reference of the project output levels. If turning the volume slider all the way up on the master bus does not drive the project volume level up to near -0db then you probably need to figure out how to add more gain to your tracks (without driving them to distortion). It may also indicate that you are recording at too low level. Now you should be able to throw Boost 11 on like Bitflipper recommended and punch the tune to as loud as any other source that you can play. So what are the output levels on your master bus? Glen
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Sickvision
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/31 13:49:07
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on your out put track master, the squigly botton near mute and record. will show you a output wave. to see if your close to a good volume. if that is low
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RockerAlex
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/03/31 15:44:21
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I think I'm beginning to understand better now, thanks guys.
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/04/01 10:33:15
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I had the same until I put ALL my audio thru my controller's sound card. I was listening to Sonar thru my sound card and everything else thru my computer sound card. It does mean I have to have the controller on to hear anything but it's so much nicer. (Start>Control Panel>Sounds and Audio Devices)
Producer Exp x1d Win XP, intel Core2 Duo CPU E4600 @ 2.4 GHz, 2 GHz RAM Nvidia gforce 8500 GT BR800 controller , DR880 drum machine. GR20 guitar synth, Alesis QX25 KRK 6 + 10" sub. Sennheiser HD280pro cans 2 Yamaki acoustics, Korean Strat, 60's Jazzmaster, 60's BF Deluxe Reverb,
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RockerAlex
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Re:Sonar X1 endless volume issues ...
2012/04/02 18:35:23
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I can only assume that everything is going through my M Audio Fast Track seeing as it's the only thing plugged into my PC atm ...
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