Nash
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Sonar X2 Problem with AudioSnap Copy As MIDI
Sometimes when i use AudioSnap to copy the transients to paste to a MIDI track for drum enhancement, the MIDI note seems to be a little too early in relation to the actual drum hit. It's just a single hit (a kick drum) and the hit looks pretty clear in the audio track - the transient marker appears to be at the right place, but as I said - when copied to MIDI, the MIDI note is a little too early and it causes weird phase issues when the MIDI kick is played together with the audio kick.
Moving the MIDI note by hand is very clumsy and prone to phase errors because there is no mathematical way to know how much exactly do I have to drag the stray MIDI note so it is in phase with the original audio kick.
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TraceyStudios
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Re: Sonar X2 Problem with AudioSnap Copy As MIDI
2013/12/31 10:53:59
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not sure if this is it, in the destination midi track, are you starting at zero? meaning, when I do this, I click into the midi destination track and rewind back to the zero measure marker (the beginning) and paste.
AMD FX-6100 six-core processor 3.3GHz 8 Gig RAM SONAR X3 Producer Tascam FW1884 Mackie Blackbird Presonus Digimax Avalon U5 BFD2 SL Trigger Alesis DM8 Pro drums KRK Rokit 8s KRK 10s ARC2 Folgers Dark Roast, a bit of crazy :) & lots of help from the forums! http://www.reverbnation.com/blakkmire
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Nash
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Re: Sonar X2 Problem with AudioSnap Copy As MIDI
2013/12/31 10:59:32
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Yes I'm already doing that (pressed Shift G, paste - as per suggestion in the official help file).
Most hits seem phase accurate. But occasionally there will be strays.
This is a 10-song album death metal project with a tight deadline and I really prefer to not to have to eyeball every kick, snare and rack/floor tom MIDIs to find early/misplaced MIDI hits... =(
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TraceyStudios
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Re: Sonar X2 Problem with AudioSnap Copy As MIDI
2013/12/31 11:22:15
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did you also play with sensitivity? I don't remember what this function is actually called in audiosnap, however in the past, I have had trouble with ghost notes. Like the bass drum audio track has some bleed from the snare or another drum and it was converted to a midi note. I changed the sensitivity percentage and it helped.
However when I tried to use audio snap on toms, I wasn't able to isolate just the tom hits from the other drums. So I used Slate Trigger and it works really really well. Don't have to convert anything to midi. Just add as a plug in on the channel and set the parameters, pick a drum and your done. the $99 version comes with a few kicks, snares, toms. I am really pleased. Sorry, not trying to advertise for them, but I was in the same boat as you. the toms sounded terrible and I didn't have the time to go thru each one, was well worth the price and in an hour or so I had all the toms replaced and they sounded fantastic.
AMD FX-6100 six-core processor 3.3GHz 8 Gig RAM SONAR X3 Producer Tascam FW1884 Mackie Blackbird Presonus Digimax Avalon U5 BFD2 SL Trigger Alesis DM8 Pro drums KRK Rokit 8s KRK 10s ARC2 Folgers Dark Roast, a bit of crazy :) & lots of help from the forums! http://www.reverbnation.com/blakkmire
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brundlefly
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Re: Sonar X2 Problem with AudioSnap Copy As MIDI
2013/12/31 12:48:28
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☄ Helpfulby TraceyStudios 2013/12/31 13:10:55
If the MIDI events are early, it's because transient detection placed the markers too early. Kick drum tracks seem especially prone to this, and I think it might be because Audiosnap is picking up beater/pedal noise that occurs before the actual hit. You can see this if you zoom in on the transient markers.
The easiest way to get around this without having to edit individual markers is to make a copy of the track, and use Process > Apply Effect > Remove Silence (with split clips option disabled) to gate out that pre-hit noise and extract MIDI from the processed track. You can use a regular Gate FX, but you have to render the FX to the clip to get AS to work on the gated signal, and Remove Silence does that in one step.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar X2 Problem with AudioSnap Copy As MIDI
2013/12/31 13:03:14
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Nice tip brundlefly!
I wish it would extract intensity of the hits too. When a drummer is double tapping the bass where the first hit is a little softer, the midi track has to have every other hit modified for intensity.
Any tips on this over manual edit?
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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TraceyStudios
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Re: Sonar X2 Problem with AudioSnap Copy As MIDI
2013/12/31 13:11:25
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AMD FX-6100 six-core processor 3.3GHz 8 Gig RAM SONAR X3 Producer Tascam FW1884 Mackie Blackbird Presonus Digimax Avalon U5 BFD2 SL Trigger Alesis DM8 Pro drums KRK Rokit 8s KRK 10s ARC2 Folgers Dark Roast, a bit of crazy :) & lots of help from the forums! http://www.reverbnation.com/blakkmire
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Nash
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Re: Sonar X2 Problem with AudioSnap Copy As MIDI
2013/12/31 13:33:39
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2013/12/31 14:28:49
I'll try that Remove Silence trick. Perhaps when the audio track is super clean, AS's algorithm will do a better job of placing the transient markers where they need to be.
I also just realized how Remove Silence would be absolutely boss on guitars, especially those pesky breakdown chugs. Might save some time on editing. :D
Thanks for the tip brundlefly. :)
EDIT: Just going to add this for clarification - I don't use Drumagog because there's no x64 version, and not Slate's Trigger because I don't have an iLok. Plus even if I were to order it now, I don't think it would arrive in time for me to turn over this project. I do have SSD4 Platinum though which is what I'm using for the drum augmentation. :D
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brundlefly
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Re: Sonar X2 Problem with AudioSnap Copy As MIDI
2013/12/31 13:59:33
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2013/12/31 14:29:02
gswitz
Nice tip brundlefly!
I wish it would extract intensity of the hits too. When a drummer is double tapping the bass where the first hit is a little softer, the midi track has to have every other hit modified for intensity.
Any tips on this over manual edit?
AS does detect amplitude, and theres an option in the AS palette to have this reflected in the velocity of the MIDI notes. The accuracy is not always great, but better than nothing. Ideal gate settings are going to vary from one recording to another, obviously but basically you want a fairly high Open level (the default of -48dB is a good starting point), and something significantly below that for Close, like -60dB, so you don't clip the decay (not really important in this application). Then maybe 5ms for all the other values except Hold which should be around 50ms. Another trick that can help on tracks with a lot of bleed from other kit pieces is to apply EQ with really aggressive settings to isolate and boost the frequency of the piece you want while cutting everything else. Again, working with a copy of the audio so you can apply the FX and use AS on the processed track.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar X2 Problem with AudioSnap Copy As MIDI
2013/12/31 14:28:45
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brundlefly
AS does detect amplitude, and theres an option in the AS palette to have this reflected in the velocity of the MIDI notes. The accuracy is not always great, but better than nothing.
Thanks again Brundlefly... I found it under options. :-) Already used it.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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