joden
Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1263
- Joined: 2007/09/22 17:03:46
- Status: offline
Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
Are there many here who use SX2 for live work? If so how has it been from a reliability/crashing p.o.v.? Can you share your experiences please as I am strongly considering using it for live work - solo performer, keys and vocals ( some solo keys, some backing trax+ keys audio and midi)
Thanks
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/04 21:56:15
(permalink)
I would stay away from the Playlist feature since they totally broke it in X2. It defaults to automatically loading and playing the next song and the hot key to toggle that no longer works. I've had it start the next song even when that feature was turned off. It also won't let you scroll properly.
|
joden
Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1263
- Joined: 2007/09/22 17:03:46
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/04 22:08:08
(permalink)
Thanks for that - yes a definite killer - that fault.
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 00:14:55
(permalink)
Check out Brainspawn's Forte: www.brainspawn.com I used it for live performance, and it is designed beautifully for it from the ground up. They have a free trial, so take a look. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
joden
Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1263
- Joined: 2007/09/22 17:03:46
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 02:35:39
(permalink)
Thanks Robert. I have Cantabile, but I was thinking of trying Sonar to run it all from instead...but from the above post I think I am needing to re-assess
Dennis
|
Tom Riggs
Max Output Level: -57.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1752
- Joined: 2003/11/08 22:47:26
- Location: Displaced Kansan living in Philippines
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 03:53:34
(permalink)
If you have an older version of Sonar you could try that for the live work.
i7-3770k OC at 4.5Ghz, asus p8z77-m, 16g g.skill aries 1600 c9 ram, Noctua d-14 cooler, RME HDSPe Raydat, Motu FastLane, Nvidea GTX 980 ti 6G, windows 7 and 8.1 pro x64. Sonar Platinum and x3e currently installed My Music My YouTube
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 11:25:33
(permalink)
I use it on my gig but just to play backing tracks. Works fine for that.
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 14:05:34
(permalink)
I use on mu gigs for backing tracks and it's fine. I just can't use the play list anymore. 
|
joden
Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1263
- Joined: 2007/09/22 17:03:46
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 14:07:54
(permalink)
Thanks guys. I am already looking at other options apart from Sonar and Cantabile (and Cantabile similes)
I do also own Live 9, but the MIDI still leaves a bit to be desired....but it might be a better bet for live.
Cheers
|
dorism
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 590
- Joined: 2003/11/06 04:11:26
- Location: Strathaven, Scotland
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 14:36:34
(permalink)
If possible go for something a bit more predictable than a Windows/Sonar set up. Last thing you need is the thing cracking, popping or dropping out.
www.thehadroncollider.co.uk
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 14:42:55
(permalink)
I would not trust Sonar live. I love it and all but there is just no way and especially X2 with its unpredictable nature. If it bugs out on me in the studio that is easily remedied. On stage... that would be brutal. I don't think I'd trust any DAW live though except maybe something very basic running through a Mac. Hardware looping gear would probably be a better solution.
|
joden
Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1263
- Joined: 2007/09/22 17:03:46
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 14:51:44
(permalink)
Thanks Dorism and Beepster - good points to ponder indeed. From the views already expressed here, I am thinking it is a bad idea to use X2...I have even had Cantabile freeze up on occasions...Maybe I should take the time and try and learn Live. A steep learning curve after having spent all my DAW time using Steinberg (way WAY back) and the Cake/Sonar for about 15 years. All my live work was done using workstation type keyboards with no PC's on stage. But I am now using a controller with VSTi's so I need to re-jig the whole live thing. I am on a "sabbatical" at the moment, so I still have a few months to get it sorted, but sort it I MUST!! I appreciate the good feedback guys, cheers 
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 14:54:21
(permalink)
If you are playing back whole projects that might be problematic but I have a large bundlke file with my already mixed backing tracks - mostly audio and few FX. I keep alk tracks archive and only archive the ones that I'm currently using. Works fine on my old laptop but having wave files loaded by the play list would be much better but it's broken.
|
joden
Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1263
- Joined: 2007/09/22 17:03:46
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 15:32:42
(permalink)
Yeah I have the projects as CWBs too. Backing tracks (I am a solo) set up using VSTi's and I play live keys again using VSTi's - all setup as a CWB. I was hoping to then load the cwb's into the playlist tool and go from there. I was having a play around with playlist last night (I am in Oz) and it seemed to stop when it should, and start when it should with the "wait for keypress" set??? Can you advise how you had it setup that it was not working at your end? I am not querying your experience at all just trying to find out how it is glitching for you...maybe I have not tested it long enough?? But in any case going on the advice from others X2 is perhaps a bit too flaky for sustained and reliable use at a gig - 4 hours non stop basically. Dennis
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 15:40:35
(permalink)
Yanno, if you've been using Sonar for that long perhaps you could use one of the older versions instead of the X series (I'm assuming you still have access to those older versions). I've never used it but I've seen lots of folks praise 8.5 as quite stable and it might reduce possible resource issues. If you needed any effects that are X series only you could just render them directly onto the wave files... which would probably be a good idea anyway to take extra variables out of the equation. Just a thought.
|
joden
Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1263
- Joined: 2007/09/22 17:03:46
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 15:46:12
(permalink)
hmmm...yes I do have them..plus some Home Studio versions as well  8.5 did always seem rather solid to me. I have not installed to the laptop yet so maybe 8.5 might be the ticket Thanks
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 15:59:27
(permalink)
Cool. I'd be interested to hear how well it works out for you. Cheers.
|
joden
Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1263
- Joined: 2007/09/22 17:03:46
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 16:21:02
(permalink)
 If it works out okay, I might even head back to 8.5 on the "big box" as well!! I do have fond memories of 8.5 sigh!!!
|
swamptooth
Max Output Level: -53 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2229
- Joined: 2012/04/16 15:44:21
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 22:05:35
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby joden 2013/06/06 00:01:07
i've used x1 on several occassions. my setup consists of about 6 synth tracks that i switch between via changing my keyboard controller's output channel. i'll have a couple of audio tracks my collaborator writes. live fx as well. also, matrix cells for triggering special fx. i open all the song cwps first and test midi in and out with them backstage, then all i have to do is carry my laptop and controllers onstage and plug in my audio interface. i've been re-creating the sets in x2 and not many a glitch that could not be figured out. most sets are about 45 min. the only problem i had was when i was practicing with a guitarist one time and my system bugged on me, so i rebooted. he broke a string and changing it took longer than it took me to get running again.
the most recent incarnation i'm using sonar live in is a three computer setup, all networked. sonar and pure data runs on one, with several vsts including reaktor to process and send osc controls. the other is a mac with pure data set up and a couple of audio and midi tracks in garage band. the third is an old win 7 machine with reason and pure data on it.
each computer uses pure data to read and analyze webcam data (the machines are in separate rooms tracking different people/objects) and send it to the other machines via rtpmidi, where those pure data (or reaktor) programs send interpreted info to one or both of the other machines. (note- this is for an art installation a friend and i are working on - not a concert). we had it running at a party recently for about 3 hours without a hitch in any of the systems. sonar was recording midi the whole time, and all the pure data components were writing osc parameters to script files.
i've never done any of this without at least a five hour test run in one sitting beforehand, though. if you know what your show is going to be like - do a dry run. i got some feedback in the forum that basically said "DON'T DO IT!!! ACK!!!" but i decided to try it for myself - it was the only way i would know.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 22:42:12
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby joden 2013/06/06 00:01:00
I use the playlist for project management in my studio and playing backing tracks on my gig. A long standing problem is that auto-load it defaults to "on". In the studio if I forget to turn it of it loads the first file (with 10-40 gigs of sample data) and then tries to load the next one (with 10-40 gigs of sample data) which brings my system down. On stage if forget a song starts that I'm not ready for. So... I had some nice macros that loaded the playlist and turned of the auto-load...until X2 came out and the hot key for auto-load no longer works so neither did my macro. Also I and others have experienced it auto loading the next song even when auto load is turned off. And finally after X2 I can no longer scroll beyond the visible window.
|
joden
Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1263
- Joined: 2007/09/22 17:03:46
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 23:17:18
(permalink)
WOW!!! Thanks Swamptooth. You have resurrected hope Thx Vintage Vibe - as I said I wasn't doubting it, I had only really "tickled the edges" as it were. Hmmm, I guess as ST advises, set up the CWB's or CWP's , rack 'em and run 'em - and treat it as a "suck it and see" . My projects are mostly midi backing tracks driving VST'is, and some live play keys racks. I run vocals through a separate stomp box. I don't have anything even remotely close to 40 gigs of data...wow!! Again I thank everyone who has ventured tips, traps and experiences. I might have a go at installing X2 on the lappy, transfer the projects over and try it. Cheers
|
swamptooth
Max Output Level: -53 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2229
- Joined: 2012/04/16 15:44:21
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/05 23:58:42
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby joden 2013/06/06 00:00:51
it's all about having fun. my motto is try it and see. it might work for you - maybe not. sh** happens sometimes no matter what. i was at a cramps concert in 91 and the power went out halfway through the set. so, we all sat down on the floor (mind you this was in fresno, so there were about 30 of us weirdos at the show), drank some beer, and lux did a screaming running around storytelling thing. power on ten min later and the show went on. that was FUN!
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
|
...wicked
Max Output Level: -1.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7360
- Joined: 2003/12/18 01:00:56
- Location: Seattle
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/06 00:19:33
(permalink)
I dunno man, if you also own Live and you aren't happy with either you might be too good for software. Frickin' Depeche Mode uses Live on their tours and they seem to do alright with it.
That said, I've used both Live and SONAR for live uses. I like Live better, but you gotta do some homework up front to convert everything to your desired level.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
|
ProjectM
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3941
- Joined: 2004/02/10 09:32:12
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/06 06:35:55
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby swamptooth 2013/06/06 21:52:17
I've been using Sonar on stage for years now. Currently we have it running about 10 audio tracks, 8 to FOH and a click track + a bounce of everything else to the drummer. We also have an instance of Battery loaded with som samples the drummer triggers with some pad thingy. Never had any problems besides hardware. It's a very cheap laptop that I have upgraded pretty much everything on. We are currently using X1d because I haven't taken the time to upgrade to X2 on the live laptop. I have X2 installed on it so I might give it a go on rehearsals. We have just set up markers at the start of each song and use the markers view to select songs from. And instead of a fancy playlistfunction, we use the old school handwritten setlist - or our memory - to keep track of what song to play. Never been any issues except with heat on some stages where the computer have stopped running. We still use an Echo Indigo DJx for audio output (stero to FOH and two outs to the drummer's mixer) at 256 samples latency, but we're upgrading to a Native Instruments Traktor DUO to replace it. When the hardware doesn't overheat, it's extremely reliable.
We are, however, changing to a Macbook Pro and Live 9. But that's more out of a compatibillity need than anything else. When moving to a Mac, we have three backup machines instead of just that one, slightly worn out, laptop to use.
¨But in my experience, Sonar is very reliable as a live tool as well.
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/06 11:14:08
(permalink)
If you are in a group and have a front man to distract people while you fiddle around with getting the next song ready scary technology on stage might be fine. But if you are a solo performer you need your playlist set up so you can bang off the songs fast without distractions or even taking your hand off your guitar-
You need:
1- Song stops after playback
2- Change set list on the fly
3- Foot control of start -stop -advance
4- It never crashes, ever, never, not even close to crashing....
Answer- Win Amp and a X key's USB foot controller. Any Laptop made in last 12 years.
Optional audio interface with stable drivers if you find the idea of on board sound unacceptable.
One thing I don't understand is why some would not simply mix the instruments in the studio and only require a stereo wave file for backing? What, are you going to do? change your mind mid song about something?? I know for some music like electronic, things are organic but if it's top 40 music the mix should have been set in stone first.
I haven't used a live midi track since they came out with affordable digital playback.
This eliminates the need for everything other than live VST playback from a keyboard, and software like Forte or Cantabile make much more sense for that.
What the software market has never done is develop the perfect tool for live playback of both backing tracks and VST access. It seems to be one or the other or a DAW which is a terrible choice for me... I can't be fussing with stuff when I'm should be focusing on a dance floor and entertaining. Give me foot control!!
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/06 11:44:21
(permalink)
I also should mention that I work solo and when I have new songs I use Sonar so I can do on the fly leveling but if I don't have any new material I have everything dumped onto an iPod as wave files and I have an Alesis mixer with an iPod dock that has easy to use iPod controls built in. That is super easy and has never failed me. Even the times I've run the show from the iPod's controls it's pretty easy and has never failed in about 6 years.
|
joden
Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1263
- Joined: 2007/09/22 17:03:46
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/06 14:46:55
(permalink)
@ Cactus - I use midis as when I feel like it I cam mute out parts when and if I feel like it...I can re-assign an instrument at the drop of a hat...I can dynamically alter keys for guest singers...I can vary tempos at will....I can apply real time effects to individual tracks...I can use part markers to jump seamlessly to and from ANY bar in a song......and this is just a some of the reasons why full audio does not cut it at all. Any of the above requires a new recording session to change even the SMALLEST thing on a song.
I am fully aware of using mp3 tracks and I can even link them to charts on the ipad, however having much fuller control over what I want to do on a given night at a give venue (and we ALL know how venues and crowds can change at the drop of a hat!!) is more important.
Following some encouraging posts re using X2, I think I am going to give it a try..if it doesn't work I will drop back to Cantabile..
Cheers
PS: btw ...wicked, what was your post all about?????
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/06 18:30:55
(permalink)
Like I said, if your in a band you might have time for all that, I don't. And once I arrange a song I very rarely change it. If I do,, I will do that at home in the studio. I use real bass so I can't re do a track without re- recording the bass anyway.
I build the songs with MIDI and try them out first. Tempo , key etc.. When I like what's happening I record real bass and sometimes parts of real drums. Then I master and copy to my playback laptops performance folder. I keep a copy of wave lab in the playback laptop so I can make some changes without returning to Sonar. Mastering things like if the file plays to hot, cold or needs eq touch ups. Heck, I can cut and paste verse chorus too, but that's super rare.
My dream would be a DAW like playback with MIDI and Wave side by side in a playlist that I could use a foot control for... I know Sonar might do this but have heard bad things about the playlist function too. I would like to use MIDI for control of outboard gear but it's not important.
Someday I'll give it a try but what I use now is real good for me and it's never not worked through 100's of gigs.
|
joden
Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1263
- Joined: 2007/09/22 17:03:46
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/06 19:08:38
(permalink)
That's cool - soz, I didn't mean to seem like I was disagreeing I just prefer a different method...As for midi + Audio I think Live can do this?? D
|
swamptooth
Max Output Level: -53 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2229
- Joined: 2012/04/16 15:44:21
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar X2 Reliability on Stage
2013/06/06 21:54:50
(permalink)
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
|