Ddamaged1
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Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
Greetings all, A few years back, I posted a thread venting my frustrations regarding the impediments I encountered to my composition process when making the switch to newer versions. While the PRV has received much love, there is still one component I believe needs consideration. I write classical music, and as such, I like to write canons, fugues, double one instrument on top of the other, and borrow note values from other tracks when writing for another track. I was able to do this seamlessly in sonars 1-4, and even cakewalk 8 before that, all with the simple ctrl + click and drag of a mouse within the Piano Roll View. Now I find myself switching between screens out of the PRV (This messes up my point of reference big time), opening menus that I didn't have to mess with before, and a few more additional clicks of the mouse. While this may seem minor, it is actually tremendously annoying and impedes my workflow drastically. I was able to keep my ideas fresh in mind with the ability to do things as i was in sonars 1-4 and cakewalk 8. Now I find myself getting frustrated more often and forgetting what I wanted to do because of all these extra steps. Let me draw up an example to hopefully make myself clear as my concern is very subtle but requires some degree of attention to detail to understand: Lets say you have two tracks open in PRV; an oboe and a flute. I have a chain of notes or canon written in my flute track that I want to copy into the oboe track, and transpose them an octave below the flute. In Sonar 4, I was able to do this seamlessly all within the PRV because if I had the oboe track selected in PRV via the right window pane where the tracks are listed, and I highlighted the chain of notes from the flute track to do a copy, Sonar 4 didn't switch tracks on me just because I select notes belonging to a different track; sonar kept me locked into the track I myself selected on the right window where the tracks are listed in PRV. This allowed me to copy over into my oboe track from my flute track's notes in all sorts of useful ways including, doubling notes, or copying a chain of notes and transposing them by moving them an octave below as an oboe, not a flute, via a simple ctrl + click-drag-release motion. Now, you have to either highlight, copy, paste, select the track you want to paste in, paste, highlight those notes again, right click, select transpose, select the octave you want to transpose to, and click OK. You can also switch out of PRV to track view and highlight the track you want to copy to, and transpose the notes the same way (very tedious because both either require you to do extra steps or switch view which will make you lose your frame of reference and train of thought). Because sonar 5+, and the sonar x family switch you to the track belonging to the notes you click on, you can no longer do this, and it sucks big time for me. I should not have to do any extra steps or compromise my workflow for whatever reason it is that the previous functionality was omitted in subsequent versions. I hope there are people on these forums who understand what I'm talking about, and will hopefully help me to push Sonar back to the days of greater glory by encouraging developers to at least add a switch to turn the above functionality on for those of us who need it and off for those of us who don't. Call it a "Copy across PRV tracks" option or something. Good software should be inclusive and well differentiated to accommodate various user types. I look forward to hearing from you all. Best, Daniel DeCastro, composer. P.S.- Where did the PRV Icon go?? Why do I have to navigate menus or mess with my keyboard when i simply want to use my mouse?? Please allow for there to be a PRV icon, staff icon, and scrub icon in Sonar x2; I don't want to memorize keyboard shortcuts!! https://soundcloud.com/ddamaged1 www.decastromusic.com
post edited by Ddamaged1 - 2013/05/11 07:58:07
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Chregg
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 08:03:56
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ive put a video here to graphically answer your question, but wat you do is highlight the tracks you are using, go into prv, at the right hand side drag the track browser into view, and you can copy and paste different notes from different tracks by highlighting the notes, hold down ctrl and drag the notes to where you want to put them, hope this helps http://www.youtube.com/wa...lOqoQ&feature=youtu.be
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Chregg
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 08:09:23
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alt + 3 to go into prv, no need for icon ;)
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Ddamaged1
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 08:13:43
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Chregg, Thanks for the video, but I'm afraid that's not what I'm talking about. When you highlighted the notes from track 1, notice that track 2 went from being highlighted, to no longer being highlighted once you selected the track 1 notes. In Sonar 4, had you copied as you did, your notes would have been track two notes, not track 1 notes. I want them to be track 2 notes. How did you make that video so i can show everyone what i'm talking about?
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Chregg
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 08:22:58
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Ddamaged1
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 08:23:33
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Chregg, I don't know man.. You ever play a video game after like 2 months only to forget the buttons? This is why icons are my preferred mode of access. Visuals are far easier to respond to than memorizing keyboard shortcuts, or at leats, such is the case for me. You want to avoid having certain learning types memorize keyboard shortcuts as much as possible; I'd think that's just making life easier for a visual learning type like me. Everyone is different. What bothers me is that Sonar X2 seems to assume that all learners learn and navigate their environment the same way and with equal effectiveness. This is not differentiated software development, but it is what it is. At least, there should be an option to see the icon at startup; I don't see that anywhere. Thx for the link btw!
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Chregg
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 08:28:39
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i have keyboard shorts cuts ingrained in the brain lol so much so everytime i open cubase i automatically hit alt + 3 to go to prv lol had to changed keybindings in cubase to accomodate that lol
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Ddamaged1
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 08:51:00
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Thats good, but also, why switch from keyboard to mouse, keyboard to mouse? Why not just keep it on the mouse? I don't wanna have to look away from what i'm doing, ever. It's risky. I think it would simplify the kinesthetic/hands-on element of the software. Also, it is easy for new users to just jump right in and intuitively get to where they want to go with icons.. I didn't ever have to nerd it so much as I've had to with the sonar x family by memorizing extra keyboard shortcuts. All Ive ever used is ctrl Z, ctrl c, and ctrl v.. or and the occasional B for scrub tool back in the day. Now I have to memorize an extra keyboard command? lol Thats cool that alt +3 is the same for cubase and sonar. I dont like cubase though because you are limited to editing 1 track at a time in PRV. I need to see my whole score to get a feel for what i am doing, and have dynamic access to my notes, lol (This is quickly turning into a different convo now)
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Chregg
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 09:00:52
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no its not the same for cubase, had to make that keybinding my self, i like being able to see multiple midi tracks in prv myself, its a good feature
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scook
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 09:05:15
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chuckebaby
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 09:39:47
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duckbar is a decent solution, just keep in mind that it voids tech support unless you uninstall it first. but it is a great alternative to shortcuts. I myself live by the keyboard shortcut and work faster than I ever have using them. its not just sonar either, a lot of programs have gone to keyboard shortcuts. some even only have shortcuts to achieve certain thing you are trying to do. I feel your pain but unfortunately, this is changing everywhere. just like you trained your eye to click and drag with the mouse, youll do the same with K-shortcuts and if you don't, well your work (production) will suffer. its as easy as that. like chreg says, they become second nature after awhile.
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scook
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 09:51:52
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I do not believe that Duckbar modifies SONAR unless you elect to do so. If Duckbar is used for the extra toolbar icons only, nothing is done to SONAR itself. There would be nothing to uninstall to get back to factory SONAR, just run SONAR without launching it from Duckbar. Of course, if one modifies the SONAR executable or resource file then those might have to be backed out for CW support.
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Ddamaged1
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 10:07:56
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Can duckbar allow me to change PRV functionality to the way it was in sonar 4? If not, is there someone I can contact that can make this happen?
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WDI
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 10:23:13
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Shortcut keys are good. But most shortcut keys I use I learned from the tool tip pop ups from mousing over icons I use a lot. Sibelius is a program that relies on shortcut keys. I don't use the program enough to memorize them. So every time I think of using the program I get lazy and don't!
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Paul P
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2013/05/11 14:11:11
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Ddamaged1, I agree with you totally about keyboard shortcuts, but unfortunately the argument has long been lost. I don't think there's much point in continuing discussion on the matter as you can be sure that Cakewalk is fully aware that some of us dislike them. This is not a complaint towards you, I'm just pointing out that the cause is lost. I'm planning on getting myself some sort of button array (real or virtual) that I can map to keyboard shortcuts.
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Ddamaged1
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2015/08/14 08:05:17
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I just bought sonar platinum and they still haven't addressed my issues. In fact, it has created more issues to my workflow. I don't want to have to download an app like duckbar just to get what i want. I want to be able to copy across tracks in Piano Roll View. This means that if i highlight notes on a track in PRV, i want to select another track and ctrl+v those notes that I have highlighted into the new track i have selected on the right track pane in PRV. This helps me to double parts or copy note values into other tracks on the fly without having to do any additional steps. As it is now, when i click the notes i have highlighted, it brings me back to it's track. This is not what I want. The smart tool is not so smart. I don't want to click and drag to write my notes in PRV! I just want to click and viola! I have my note! I also would like to be able to highlight my notes by clicking and dragging over notes! It can all be possible with the smart tool, but for whatever reason, we are not allowed to tweak it. Id also like to right click over notes to delete them. I do not want to have to use the keyboard to switch functions as i am unnecessarily forced to do. I do not want to switch views to manipulate notes as I want to. I get so jumbled up doing these tedious extra steps that i forget the notes im trying to write out on the fly because i spent too much time jumbling about! Sonar has failed to differentiate for me for the past 10 years. They had it right with Sonar 2. Even Cakewalk 8!! I have spent alot of money on this product and it is the best thing out there, but it is not perfect. I really hope one day my simple requests will be fulfilled. 10 years is a long time.
post edited by Ddamaged1 - 2015/08/14 08:19:27
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dcumpian
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2015/08/14 08:13:30
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Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X2 STILL doesn't copy notes across tracks in PRV like you could in Sonar 1-4??
2015/08/14 09:06:35
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The smart tool is not so smart. I don't want to click and drag to write my notes in PRV! I just want to click and viola! I I prefer to click and violin, but I guess that's just me. You can enter notes using the mouse in 2 ways - double click, or alt + click I also would like to be able to highlight my notes by clicking and dragging over notes! Try right clicking & dragging
post edited by Bristol_Jonesey - 2015/08/14 09:15:12
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