Gideon K
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Sonar X3 Audiosnap - Can't get it working for the life of me...
I've got a partially recorded track recorded at a certain bpm, a mix of audio and midi. All the audio parts are in time with the current tempo and their transient markers seem to be all in place. All I want to do is experiment with moving the bpm up a couple of notches to find where the feel of the track is, and I can't seem to get the audio to do this.
I've just spent 2-3 hours trying to get audiosnap to do this one thing, and failing completely. I've done it before once or twice but I can never remember how I did it. I can't find any tutorials or threads where I've followed the advice and it has worked. The cakewalk videos in general seem to have insufferable background music that drives me nuts while giving me information I don't need and not helping me do the basics.
Can anyone help me with this? A pointer to a good tutorial page or video would be amazing.
Sidenote: I'm actually starting to get sick of Sonar in general with all it's idiosyncratic bugs and issues. Am considering changing platforms.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar X3 Audiosnap - Can't get it working for the life of me...
2016/12/19 11:23:58
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Well matters have improved considerably since X3, and IIRC AudioSnap has been updated, but the following works with the current version and is excerpted from "The Big Book of SONAR Tips," page 239. There are also ways to do this with Groove Clips and stretching, but based on the limited information you've provided, I don't know which would be optimum for you...I'm taking a guess AudioSnap will do it, assuming your audio files start at the beginning of the project. Otherwise Groove Clips might be a better choice, assuming you know how to use that feature.
High-Quality Warping and Beat-Matching
Although most people don’t seem to think of SONAR as being really good at warping—they assume it takes a DJ-oriented program to do this—SONAR can actually do a great job of warping files. Although SONAR’s ability to do this may “fly under the radar,” it deserves props as another one of those “Really? SONAR can do that?!?” features.
The secret weapon is AudioSnap. Yes, it does get some flak, but you can do some serious magic once you figure it out. What adds to its power is that when you render an “audiosnapped” file, the fidelity improves dramatically – far better than when you attempt to stretch or squeeze tempo in real time.
So, here’s how to do some beat-matching mojo.
1. Import the file into SONAR.
2. In the Inspector, click on the Clip tab, then select the “AudioSnap” section.
3. Enable “AudioSnap.”
4. Enable “Follow Proj Tempo” (if this doesn’t show a check box, click the Clip again).
5. Listen to make sure the tempo is correct. Note that the fidelity will be sketchy (depending on how far the file has to stretch), so…
6. Bounce the Clip to itself to render the tempo change. Expect this to take a while with complex material and slow computers.
As to changing platforms, download a demo of Platinum as well as any other DAWs you're considering. Many people have thought the grass is greener on the other side, only to find that all DAWs have weeds. The only difference is the nature of the weeds.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar X3 Audiosnap - Can't get it working for the life of me...
2016/12/19 13:51:54
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Gideon K
I've got a partially recorded track recorded at a certain bpm, a mix of audio and midi. All the audio parts are in time with the current tempo and their transient markers seem to be all in place. All I want to do is experiment with moving the bpm up a couple of notches to find where the feel of the track is, and I can't seem to get the audio to do this.
simply stretching tracks may be a lot faster for your purpose ... what was it back in X3? CTRL+drag end of clip
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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Gideon K
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Re: Sonar X3 Audiosnap - Can't get it working for the life of me...
2016/12/19 14:40:20
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Anderton
but based on the limited information you've provided, I don't know which would be optimum for you...I'm taking a guess AudioSnap will do it,
What further information should I provide to be more specific? Let me know as I do appreciate anyone taking their time to try to help me out on this. I have the tracks in the project. I would like to play around with the project tempo as a whole so that I can hear how it sounds at different speeds. I would like to set up the audio tracks with their transient markers locked into the framework of the song arrangement so I can flip back and forth between project tempos with relative ease. I was led to believe audiosnap was capable of doing this and have done this before with one or two tracks but can no longer remember how to do it and can't find any tutorials worth a damn. Anderton
So, here’s how to do some beat-matching mojo.
1. Import the file into SONAR.
2. In the Inspector, click on the Clip tab, then select the “AudioSnap” section.
3. Enable “AudioSnap.”
4. Enable “Follow Proj Tempo” (if this doesn’t show a check box, click the Clip again).
5. Listen to make sure the tempo is correct. Note that the fidelity will be sketchy (depending on how far the file has to stretch), so…
Tried the above in several ways but it hasn't been working. At all. Even matching the project tempo on the audiosnap pallette, doesn't do anything.
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brundlefly
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Re: Sonar X3 Audiosnap - Can't get it working for the life of me...
2016/12/19 14:54:51
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To add a little detail to Craig's steps for a multi-track, multi-clip project:
- 'Save As' a copy of the project to work in.
- Ctrl+A to select all clips (doesn't hurt if MIDI clips are included; they won't be affected by Audiosnap and will follow tempo changes by default).
- Open the Clip tab of the Track Inspector
- Expand the Audiosnap section
- Check the 'Enable' box (give it minute to complete if the project is large and/or your PC is slow)
- Ctrl+A again to be sure everything is still selected.
- Check 'Follow Proj Tempo'
- Change the tempo (faster will be more transparent than slower)
-Play back the project, soloing tracks, and see how everything sounds with the Online (i.e. real-time) 'Groove Clip' algorithm.
- Select the appropriate Offline rendering algorithm for each track's clips, and bounce to clip(s) one track at a time; for some material 'Same As Online' might actually give the best result.
- Listen carefully to each track in solo after rendering to make sure there aren't any intolerable artifacts; if there are, Undo and try a different rendering algorithm.
- If all else fails, re-record problematic parts at the new tempo.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar X3 Audiosnap - Can't get it working for the life of me...
2016/12/19 15:10:57
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Gideon K
Anderton
but based on the limited information you've provided, I don't know which would be optimum for you...I'm taking a guess AudioSnap will do it,
What further information should I provide to be more specific? Let me know as I do appreciate anyone taking their time to try to help me out on this.
- Are any of the tracks Groove Clips?
- Are there multiple clips in a track?
- How many tracks?
[Edit] Brundlefly has got it right. I tested on tracks that had combinations of groove clips and non groove clips, which ended up causing issues. So I had previously written a "fail-safe" solution that suggested bouncing all the clips together to make them one audio track, an slip-editing them to the beginning so they all had a common starting point. If you don't have that consideration...never mind. SONAR doesn't have a global variable speed control, which is okay with me - stretching tends to mess with fidelity. So I deal with setting the project tempo is one of three ways. 1. Use tap tempo to insert the tempo at the beginning. 2. I always start off with MIDI instruments or audio Groove Clips so I can mess around with the tempo and key until it's right. If I record some audio track in that process and it's a keeper, I'll do what's described above. 3. If I'm far along into the song and decide I want to tweak the tempo, I complete the song at that tempo, then use SONAR's pseudo-tape varispeed feature to alter the tempo of the mixed file.
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brundlefly
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Re: Sonar X3 Audiosnap - Can't get it working for the life of me...
2016/12/19 15:39:40
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Problems with changing tempo can be difficult to troubleshoot without laying hands on the project. If you have some place to share large files, you can zip up the whole thing and PM me a link, and I'll be happy to take a look.
The trouble with recipes and tutorials as that a simple one can never cover all possible scenarios that require 'special instructions'. And if you try to cover all the special cases in advance, the detail becomes overwhelming.
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Gideon K
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Re: Sonar X3 Audiosnap - Can't get it working for the life of me...
2016/12/19 19:29:53
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brundlefly
To add a little detail to Craig's steps for a multi-track, multi-clip project:
- 'Save As' a copy of the project to work in.
- Ctrl+A to select all clips (doesn't hurt if MIDI clips are included; they won't be affected by Audiosnap and will follow tempo changes by default).
- Open the Clip tab of the Track Inspector
- Expand the Audiosnap section
- Check the 'Enable' box (give it minute to complete if the project is large and/or your PC is slow)
- Ctrl+A again to be sure everything is still selected.
- Check 'Follow Proj Tempo'
- Change the tempo (faster will be more transparent than slower)
Thank you, thank you. That worked. I had no idea you could play with audiosnap on the channel controls. I was dicking around with the audiosnap palette getting nowhere. brundlefly
-Play back the project, soloing tracks, and see how everything sounds with the Online (i.e. real-time) 'Groove Clip' algorithm.
- Select the appropriate Offline rendering algorithm for each track's clips, and bounce to clip(s) one track at a time; for some material 'Same As Online' might actually give the best result.
- Listen carefully to each track in solo after rendering to make sure there aren't any intolerable artifacts; if there are, Undo and try a different rendering algorithm.
- If all else fails, re-record problematic parts at the new tempo.
How do I tell what the appropriate offline rendering algorithm is? To be honest, I wanted to use audiosnap solely for the 'ease' of flipping between different tempos while I'm still in 'demo mode' rather than re-recording guide guitars and whatnot for every possible tempo. The time-stretching always sounds horrible and unusable to me, I just wanted it as an arrangement tool and now I know how to use it to do what I wanted to. Thanks. Thank you all for taking the time to respond so quickly. Much appreciated.
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mettelus
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Re: Sonar X3 Audiosnap - Can't get it working for the life of me...
2016/12/19 19:43:21
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If just checking tempos prior to actual editting, bouncing the project to a single audio track (or export) and then pulling that track into a new project will allow you to slip-stretch the master to get a quick feel for tempo changes. Doing that to a single audio track is simpler than a complex project.
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