Helpful ReplySonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?)

Author
paulf707
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 109
  • Joined: 2016/07/12 14:11:45
  • Location: Wiltshire
  • Status: offline
2016/12/21 01:23:51 (permalink)

Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?)

I've just bought a Focusrite Scarlett Solo, and testing it with my existing installation of Sonar. I've fully uninstalled ASIO4All (that I was using previously), but haven't yet tried a full Windows / Sonar reinstall.
 
Some VSTs have a rhythmic clicking on playback. Changing the buffer sizes only seems to change the speed of the clicking (and even at 1024 samples, I still hear clicks).
 
I can play the same VSTs outside of Cakewalk using SAVIHost (standalone VST host) and they play fine without any problems.
There are also a number of VSTs that do appear to play OK in Cakewalk.
 
It appears to be my older VSTs that have issues, so I'm wondering if it's a 32bit/64bit issue? I did install the x64 version of Sonar (it's a 64bit PC) - I haven't seen any issues previously when using ASIO4All (and a cheap Beranger interface).
However, the rgc Audio Square 1 is listed as '32bit' in description, but works OK - not sure why? (Full list of VSTs tested below).
I also tested live audio FX using a guitar and TH2 Producer - that also worked without issue.
 
Focusrite driver installed is 4.15.0.172
Sonar X3 version is X3e build 352 x64
PC Specs are  Core i7 4790S CPU @ 3.20 GHz 16GB RAM 64bit Windows 10 Pro
 
Does anyone have any ideas / suggestions / thoughts on this? I probably will do a full Windows reload in the next couple of weeks, but I'm not sure this will help in this instance?
 
Thanks very much,
Paul
 
 
All of the following VSTs appear to working OK:
Addictive Drums 2
Dimension Pro
Rapture
Session Drummer 3
sfz
SI Bass / Drums / Keys / Strings
rgc Audio Square 1  (Not sure why, as this is listed as 32 bit???)
Strum Acoustic
z3ta+
True Piano Cakewalk
TTS1
PSYN II
Roland GrooveSynth
 
TH2 Producer (Guitar FX for live audio input) also working fine
 
All of these plugins produce regular clicking when notes are played:
Cakewalk Sound Centre
DropZone
Korg WaveStation
Native Instruments B4
SampleTank
#1
telecharge
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1180
  • Joined: 2014/03/31 18:01:17
  • Location: Enfuego, Monterey
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2016/12/21 06:45:11 (permalink)
Does the problem persist when using drivers other than the ones from Focusrite? Give WASAPI a try.
 
Contact Focusrite for support if it just happens with their driver.
 
I would only reinstall as a last resort.
 
#2
paulf707
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 109
  • Joined: 2016/07/12 14:11:45
  • Location: Wiltshire
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2016/12/21 10:23:39 (permalink)
Yep, I've got a call logged with Focusrite as well....
However, the Focusrite ASIO drivers work fine with a standalone VST host, so I think it's a Sonar issue
I tried WASAPI drivers, but I couldn't get any sound out - however, I wasn't getting any signal from the audio track (despite having signal on the midi track, and that output going to the audio track). I'll try again a bit later......
 
Thanks for your suggestions...
#3
paulf707
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 109
  • Joined: 2016/07/12 14:11:45
  • Location: Wiltshire
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2016/12/21 11:54:01 (permalink)
Managed to get both WASAPI and WDM drivers working with the Focsurite - but only at latency of 20ms (and lower and it started to generate clicks - not as badly as ASIO, but still unusable).
Tomorrow I may try and re-install ASIO4All - but to be honest one of the main reasons for buying the Focusrite was to get something with 'proper' drivers...
I may also try putting Sonar onto this laptop and try the Focusrite on there to see if it behaves the same.
 
The fact that it's only certain VSTs (and mostly older, probably 32bit ones) - I still think that could be a factor in this issue??
#4
JonD
Max Output Level: -39 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3617
  • Joined: 2003/12/09 11:09:10
  • Location: East of Santa Monica
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2016/12/21 14:18:33 (permalink)
You should be getting better performance with ASIO than that.  A few things to try /look at:
 
- Make sure you have the proper generation (1st or 2nd) drivers for your Solo.
 
- Connect the Solo only to a USB2 port (not USB3).  Or, try a different USB2 port.
 
- Did you do a reset & rescan of VSTs?

SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
#5
paulf707
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 109
  • Joined: 2016/07/12 14:11:45
  • Location: Wiltshire
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2016/12/21 15:36:43 (permalink)
Thanks Jon
Definitely latest driver for 2nd gen device
I did see some other articles mentioning USB2/3 - unfortunately I think my PC is USB3 only - not sure how I deal with this if it is a USB3 problem - maybe a USB2 hub? (although I wouldn't normally want to put an audio device through a hub...) 
Thanks for the suggestion on reset/rescan VST - I hadn't come across that setting before, so I'll try that next...
Cheers 
#6
JonD
Max Output Level: -39 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3617
  • Joined: 2003/12/09 11:09:10
  • Location: East of Santa Monica
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2016/12/21 21:55:14 (permalink)
A USB3 port with Intel controller/driver "might" work.  A look at the device manager will tell you if you have any.
 
An added hub won't make a difference if it's connected to a USB3 port.
 
If this is a desktop, there's another, easier solution. You can buy a relatively cheap USB2 PCIe add-on card like this one:
 
https://www.amazon.com/Syba-Expres-5-port-Host-Controller/dp/B0026I4DZ2

SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
#7
telecharge
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1180
  • Joined: 2014/03/31 18:01:17
  • Location: Enfuego, Monterey
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2016/12/21 22:44:28 (permalink)
You could try a clean boot, on the off chance you have something in your startup that's causing a conflict with Sonar and the Focusrite driver.
 
How to perform a clean boot in Windows
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/929135
 
There also this, in case you missed it...
 
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013376/Windows-Optimization-Guide
 
#8
JonD
Max Output Level: -39 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3617
  • Joined: 2003/12/09 11:09:10
  • Location: East of Santa Monica
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2016/12/21 22:51:26 (permalink)
A long-shot, but worth a try...
 
Under Pref/Audio/Driver settings:  Disable 64-bit Double Precision Engine (Has been known to cause problems with some plugins).

SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
#9
paulf707
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 109
  • Joined: 2016/07/12 14:11:45
  • Location: Wiltshire
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2016/12/22 01:47:25 (permalink)
Thanks all
I found articles last night suggesting some DELL's have options in the BIOS to reduce USB3 down to USB2 for compatibility, but it appears my BIOS doesn't!
I've been looking at USB Device Tree Viewer - according to that the USB ports I'm using are marked as 'H' (which is USB2) - there are some ports marked as 'S' but they don't connect when I use any of the 6 ports I have available. Not sure if the software is reading my device correctly or not?
The driver for the controller is shown as Intel(R) USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.0 (Microsoft).
(Unfortunately I don't have any PCI slots - it's a DELL HPS 2720 All-in-one PC - basically it's a laptop motherboard inside the case)
 
Tried the VST reset and rescan - no change
Tried reinstalling ASIO4All - the only way I can get this to sound with the Solo is by enabling Hardware buffers (which gives appalling latency) - but this did have one interesting outcome - the Solo output still 'clicks' when using ASIA4All in Cakewalk (on the affected VSTs), but doesn't click when using the standalone VST host.
 
So the problem does not appear to be limited to the Focusrite drivers - it does appear to be an incompatibility between the Focusrite Hardware, Sonar, and specific (possibly 32bit?) VSTs.
I'm not sure when I'll get time to run up Sonar on a laptop - but I'll try that next (as I'm fairly sure the laptop is only USB2). I'll also try some of the performance settings on the PC to see if they help (but I'm trying to play single notes on one VST with no other audio / midi / effects - on an i7 PC with 16Gb RAM - I highly doubt it's performance related!)
 
Thanks for all your help and suggestions, I will keep this thread updated with progress...
#10
paulf707
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 109
  • Joined: 2016/07/12 14:11:45
  • Location: Wiltshire
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2016/12/23 01:31:45 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby vorxio 2017/01/18 17:55:39
OK - tried testing on my laptop - unfortunately that is USB3 as well, but it does behave exactly the same way.
So this at least proves there isn't a specific problem with my installation - and the problem appears to be re-producible.
I tried installing the jBridge demo on my primary DAW, and that appears to overcome the issues. I've tested a number of the VSTs that will not play, and their 'jBridge versions' will play without problems.
 
So I'm thinking this is now some kind of incompatibility between the Focusrite drivers and the Sonar BitBridge software. (It may also be linked to USB3, but without a USB2 device, it's hard to confirm). I'm not really sure how I move this forward - I don't know if I should try and report this to Sonar/Cakewalk, or continue pursuing support with Focusrite?
I may consider purchasing jBridge, but to me this seems more of a 'workaround' rather than a 'solution'...
 
Does anyone know if there are any 'freeware' alternatives to jBridge / BitBridge?
#11
paulf707
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 109
  • Joined: 2016/07/12 14:11:45
  • Location: Wiltshire
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2016/12/24 01:55:41 (permalink)
Just a quick update - I've done a clean re-install of Windows 10 and Sonar X3
I'm still getting issues with 32bit VSTs - and now the three 32bit VSTs that come with Sonar (Cakewalk Sound Centre, DropZone and rgcAudio Square I) are all now exhibiting problems - which at least makes the issue consistent!
I've had a response from Focusrite - they agree it could be an issues with the Sonar 32bit wrapper (BitBridge) - but they are not fully staffed until the new year so I won't get a full investigation until then.
At the moment I'm hoping I can make do with 64bit VSTs - but may have to look at jBridge if I find I need some of my older VSTs (and Focusrite can't resolve the issue) 
#12
telecharge
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1180
  • Joined: 2014/03/31 18:01:17
  • Location: Enfuego, Monterey
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2016/12/24 02:20:38 (permalink)
I would file a problem report with Cakewalk if you haven't already.
 
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report
 
I would also experiment more with WASAPI and WASAPI Exclusive in the meantime. Windows Audio has been improved in recent months and Sonar has been optimized for it (nevermind, I see you're on X3).
 
I haven't tried any alternatives to jBridge / BitBridge because I (luckily) haven't needed to.
 
EDIT: You might even want to try your integrated audio as a temporary work around.
#13
marled
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 251
  • Joined: 2015/01/22 04:50:52
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2017/01/06 10:55:32 (permalink)
On my laptop I have exactly the same problems (HP laptop i5, Windows 10 and Focusrite Scarlett Solo 2nd Gen). Also in my case the clicking and crackle only appears with 32-bit plugins running over Sonar's BitBridge (No problem with 64-bit plugins). It makes no change whether I use an USB2 or USB3 port. When I test the same old plugins in a 32-bit DAW (MAGIX) on the same system, they run without any problems. This proves that the audio interface setting is generally alright.
When I test the 32-bit plugins on my desktop system with a Tascam USB interface in Sonar, there is no problem either.
 
Thus the problem has something to do with the interaction of the Focusrite driver and the Sonar BitBridge. I think the 2 companies should sit together to solve the problem, but as I worked many years as software engineer myself, I know that this is often a huge problem and so the only one who will be blamed is the end costumer, unfortunately!
 
I have contacted the Cakewalk support some days ago, before I have seen this thread. The only reaction of them is that they sent me twice a general e-mail with advice to check the settings of my audio interface and of Windows 10. That helped nothing at all!
#14
paulf707
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 109
  • Joined: 2016/07/12 14:11:45
  • Location: Wiltshire
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2017/01/06 13:37:03 (permalink)
Thanks Marled -Although I'm sorry to hear you're having problems, I am pleased to hear the problems exist on another setup.
I have a call open with Focusrite about this, but their response so far has been similarly 'generic'....

Sonar X3, Dell XPS 2720 All-In-One Touchscreen PC, Focusrite Scarlett Solo, Miditech Midistart Music 25, EMU XBoard 49, AKG K702
 
https://soundcloud.com/user-795249686
https://blend.io/perpetualmotion
 
#15
vorxio
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13
  • Joined: 2017/01/17 15:42:55
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2017/01/18 18:00:51 (permalink)
The same problem happens to me with 32bit VST plugins (... and among them the nice Pianissimo VST that I use often):
 
My PC: Windows 7 64bit, Intel i7, USB3 (all ports), 16GB RAM, FocusRite Scarlett 2i2 2nd generation
 
I tried to change the ASIO buffer, but the problem of a repeated tick (while playing and while recording) is still there.
 
No problems if the plugins are used with other hosts (e.g. savihost).
 
 
#16
paulf707
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 109
  • Joined: 2016/07/12 14:11:45
  • Location: Wiltshire
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2017/01/19 01:20:39 (permalink)
Hi,
Focusrite support have confirmed this as a bug:
 
 
 
Hi Paul,

Thanks for your reply,

Apologies for the delay in response. I've managed to test this with Sonar and I have managed to reproduce the problems you are having on 4.15 with Sonar.

I'll log this as a bug case and add you to the case.

During initial testing I could not reproduce this on the 4.14 driver so I would recommend installing this and let me know how this goes. 

I've also CC'd myself to this thread so I'll be notified when you reply.
Best Regards,
Ed Fry
Focusrite Technical Support

Sonar X3, Dell XPS 2720 All-In-One Touchscreen PC, Focusrite Scarlett Solo, Miditech Midistart Music 25, EMU XBoard 49, AKG K702
 
https://soundcloud.com/user-795249686
https://blend.io/perpetualmotion
 
#17
marled
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 251
  • Joined: 2015/01/22 04:50:52
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2017/02/04 09:19:09 (permalink)
I had also contacted Focusrite and after some mail ping-pongs (their response time is about 5 days) I wrote them about their bug report above, so they sent me also the 4.14 driver. And indeed, my problems with noise using 32-bit plugins has disappeared with this older driver!
 
(Sonar Platinum, Focusrite Scarlett Solo 2nd Gen)
#18
jadonx
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 102
  • Joined: 2009/03/18 05:50:41
  • Location: North Yorkshire, England
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2017/02/04 11:09:19 (permalink)
Just wondering if the Splat 2017.01 update might of addressed this. I will have to try on my set up later.
 

Windows 10 64bit
Sonar platinum(rolling updates..latest version)
Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen
Yamaha HS5 monitors
Laptop Intel i7 12GB ram
Guitars(elec/acoustic 6/12 string),keyboards(Yamaha p115,oxygen49),harmonica,bass hobbyist
 
#19
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10666
  • Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
  • Location: Norway
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2017/02/04 17:16:30 (permalink)
jadonx
Just wondering if the Splat 2017.01 update might of addressed this. I will have to try on my set up later.
 


Hi. Reading this thread, it seems to have been a Focusrite bug, and not a SONAR bug. Do you have the 4.14 driver for your Focusrite mentioned earlier?
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
BBZ
Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
#20
jadonx
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 102
  • Joined: 2009/03/18 05:50:41
  • Location: North Yorkshire, England
  • Status: offline
Re: Sonar X3 / Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Issues with clicking on some VSTs (32bit?) 2017/02/04 18:16:45 (permalink)
Using 4.15 but I am a hoarder and kept the 4.14 driver so might try rolling back when I'm not too busy . Then again I think as Focusrite are on the case, wait for the next driver. 
 

Windows 10 64bit
Sonar platinum(rolling updates..latest version)
Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen
Yamaha HS5 monitors
Laptop Intel i7 12GB ram
Guitars(elec/acoustic 6/12 string),keyboards(Yamaha p115,oxygen49),harmonica,bass hobbyist
 
#21
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1