Sonar X3 b mixing problem...

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Jerrycast
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2014/10/05 18:04:20 (permalink)

Sonar X3 b mixing problem...

Searched the forums and can't find anything like this. I'm not sure if this is a software problem or a sample problem.
 
I'm in the middle of mixing background vocals of this girl and 5 tracks are OK, but one track is kind of low, even though the meter goes all the way to the top and into the red, and I can't figure out why I can't get it to go any louder. She recorded the vocals in her studio last year and she is not available to talk now. I thought maybe she did something weird that I could fix.
 
The actual wave file looks normal and if I goose up the volume or gain it only then pins the meter and starts to distort the sound.
 
Any ideas as to how I can get this vocal LOUDER whilst not making the meter jump any higher and distort?
 
I really need this vocal part and the only thing that I can think of is to lower every other voice and all the instruments in the song, which I don't want to do.
 
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
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    Boydie
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    Re: Sonar X3 b mixing problem... 2014/10/05 18:12:15 (permalink)
    Have you double checked what bus this track is being sent to

    I have lost count of the times I have done this - eg sending the track to an fx bus instead of the master bus
    #2
    Jerrycast
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    Re: Sonar X3 b mixing problem... 2014/10/05 18:30:31 (permalink)
    Thanks. I just double checked and yes, it's going to the correct bus. I did remove the compressor and then goose up the Dry signal in the Breverb and it helps, but the meter is pinned, but, I don't hear distortion, so I guess I should let it be pinned as long as what I hear is ok, I guess.
    Now, if I can only find out how to edit the nodes in my lead vocal volume envelope, ha, ha.
     
    Should never have upgraded to version B in the middle of a project!

      
    #3
    scook
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    Re: Sonar X3 b mixing problem... 2014/10/05 18:30:44 (permalink)
    May want to take a look at the track with an frequency analyzer or the Quad Curve EQ if you have Producer.
     
    While I doubt it will help with this problem make sure the SONAR X3e patch has been applied http://www.cakewalk.com/S...13361/SONAR-X3e-Update it is a cumulative update addressing quite a few issues
    post edited by scook - 2014/10/05 18:44:30
    #4
    Anderton
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    Re: Sonar X3 b mixing problem... 2014/10/05 19:11:32 (permalink)
    Check for subsonics and supersonics. Set the QuadCurve EQ's high and low pass filters for 96 dB/octave response and cut below 100Hz and above 10kHz...see what happens.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #5
    Splat
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    Re: Sonar X3 b mixing problem... 2014/10/05 19:20:01 (permalink)
    Please update it to X3E :) You are still on an old version..
    Thanks..
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/10/05 19:32:46

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #6
    Jerrycast
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    Re: Sonar X3 b mixing problem... 2014/10/05 21:58:00 (permalink)
    Thanks, everyone. Yes, I have Producer.
     
    I don't think I'll update to version E until I finish this project, which is time sensitive. I'll struggle with this for now and work around it somehow. I should have updated before I started.
     
    Thanks for the EQ tip, I'll try it out.

      
    #7
    Splat
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    Re: Sonar X3 b mixing problem... 2014/10/05 22:00:29 (permalink)
    Anyway please turn off 64 bit precision engine. Known issue in older patches. Thanks.
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/10/05 22:16:00

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #8
    orangesporanges
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    Re: Sonar X3 b mixing problem... 2014/10/06 01:13:17 (permalink)
    I tend to agree with Craig on this one. Cut the stuff that you can't hear, or don't want to hear first, see what it does to your levels. I suspect that her S/N ratio is probably pretty bad, and when you goose up the volume , your pulling up a lot of other stuff too in the form of hiss and unwanted rumbles, as well as some basic audio garbage. Use HP and LP at about 100 hz (maybe even 150) and chop the high end off  at say 10khz (maybe 9khz). See if the audio suffers. Reference point: 110 hz is the low A on your guitar. 10khz is a piercingly high pitch and is used only to provide some air in the signal. Both are safe cuts for female vocals.
    #9
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Sonar X3 b mixing problem... 2014/10/06 03:39:18 (permalink)
    When you say the meter is "pinned" that points to automation on the track. But when you say the meter goes all the way up into the red, it points to a different problem (e.g. a plugin or bus routing).
    You can temporarily turn off al plugins by pressing "E". Does this make a significant difference to the volume of the track?
    #10
    Jerrycast
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    Re: Sonar X3 b mixing problem... 2014/10/06 07:45:58 (permalink)
    Thank you, everyone.
     
    I should have not used the word, "Pinned." I just meant that the meter was hitting up where it really shouldn't.
     
    The vocals were re-recorded last night by the girl  and sent to me, and all is well. Problem solved.
     
    I appreciate all of your advice and I will try the Quad Curve and other tips as an experiment later on when I finish this project (I'm saving the problem project for this).
     
    Also, nice to hear from you, Craig Anderton, as I've been reading you since the early 90s and have learned many things from your writing.
     
    Again, thanks all.
    post edited by Jerrycast - 2014/10/06 08:01:00
    #11
    johnnyV
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    Re: Sonar X3 b mixing problem... 2014/10/06 09:06:33 (permalink)
    Glad you solved it, but a few things you said seemed odd. Like the Breverb in the track bin. You should use an effects send for effects like reverb and not put them directly in the track bin. Having a dozen reverb's scattered through the vocal tracks will make a mess of your mix. Share the same reverb in a Buss. 
     
    My guess is your issue was signal path and because of something in the tracks bin. 

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    #12
    Jerrycast
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    Re: Sonar X3 b mixing problem... 2014/10/06 11:34:16 (permalink)
    Yes, thanks, verbs on busses, recording 101, got it. I had only put the Breverb on the actual track temporarily for a few different reason before I added that track to the bus with the rest of the backup vox tracks. It's gone now.

      
    #13
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