Helpful ReplySonar export issue [ SOLVED ? ]

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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 3:55 PM (permalink)
Voxengo Recorder what does it do for the mix "sound wise" just curious - I use Voxengo products I'll have to check out the recorder...

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Soundblend
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 3:55 PM (permalink)
scook
When exporting did you try using Master Bus only in the export settings?
Are you exporting a wave?
 



1 . No i have not tried master BUSS only with the export ( i have all settings default ) because it have always worked in X3
so why should it not do so in Platinum !
2.  Yes wavefile only



post edited by Soundblend - September 20, 15 4:11 PM
#32
msorrels
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 3:56 PM (permalink)
Have you turned on the upsampling option they added recently?  (it only comes in during an export/bounce/freeze)
#33
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 3:58 PM (permalink)
listen
Voxengo Recorder what does it do for the mix "sound wise" just curious - I use Voxengo products I'll have to check out the recorder...



Voxengo recorder is an vst plugin ( 32bit only ), you can put on any Audiotrack
and record from it ( that track / buss ) and to a wavefile to your HD.
It don't do anything to the sound ... rather than recording in realtime from the selected track or BUSS.

Start playback on sonar, hit record button on the Voxengo recorder... viola it records to a wavefile 
post edited by Soundblend - September 20, 15 4:23 PM
#34
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 4:04 PM (permalink)
msorrels
Have you turned on the upsampling option they added recently?  (it only comes in during an export/bounce/freeze)



No the upsampling is disabled... 
post edited by Soundblend - September 20, 15 4:15 PM
#35
msorrels
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 4:10 PM (permalink)
You might want to try freezing each of the synths.  Perhaps one of them behaves differently when exporting vs realtime playing?  If you freeze them you should get the same as they would produce on an export.  Might be able to narrow it down.  But if it is Sonar, it's not reproducing here and no one else has reported this.  Going to be hard to get a fix if you are the only one with the problem.
#36
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 4:21 PM (permalink)
The best thing would be me sending Cakewalk my project file , so they can find the solution to it i guess IMO

I am tired for now... been trying for hour's to solve it.
#37
stickman393
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 5:44 PM (permalink)
Just listened to the examples.
This is not dithering.
This is Sonar exporting from a different place from what you think. Can you post a screen shot of your export dialog?
#38
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 5:52 PM (permalink)

#39
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 6:05 PM (permalink)
Did some adjustments, now the arp is messed up totally
but when i play it in sonar all is good.

Used the above settings when i did the export...

orginal sound in sonar is like the one from voxengo recorder ..

Beats me what happens, i have no clue at all

EDIT: Sound Examples deleted

Too bad i need to use the plugin to export the audio, when sonar can't
but it is a solution...
post edited by Soundblend - September 21, 15 7:15 PM
#40
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 6:28 PM (permalink)
Platinum keeps trolling me...., where's the shotgun 
#41
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 7:07 PM (permalink)
Soundblend
Ok i downloaded Voxengo recorder an put it on my Master BUSS, hit play in sonar and recorded the master

The sound of the recorded file with ( voxengo recorder ) is exactly what i hear in my DAW ;-)

1. Sonar Mixdown ( boomy and not that good sound )
2. Voxengo recorder ( exactly as i hear it in my daw )

there's no change in EQ or other..., just different way to mixdown

Now tell me what's wrong ?
 




I just had a listen ...
 
this could be a very common problem: when a bass starts sounding thin, there are often phase issues (signal gets thinner due to canceling when summing similar signals with a short time delay) ... but here it might be working just the opposite way
 
here's what I think ...
 
#2 with the voxengo (your supposedly better version) the arp sounds "phasy" and thus thinner ... so either you have a phase/flanging FX on the arp that for whatever reason is not active when export from Sonar ... or what I actually suspect, you have some unintended phase issues happening like the synth being routed to 2 tracks with one requiring different processing buffer (=latency) than the other track ... so when listening in real-time you hear this "phasy" thinner arp (due signal cancelling) but when exporting tracks get properly aligned and thus sum up and get much louder ...
 
try the following and see if it helps ...
 + disable all direct monitoring
 + if using outboard gear or external synths, record/bounce them to audio tracks
 + try freezing all FX that relates to the synth ...
 
then try exporting again ... I'm sure if you properly transfer your MIDI to audio (freeze/bounce tracks) before export, there will not be any difference between a direct export from Sonar and a plug-in in the master bus ...
 
 
post edited by FreeFlyBertl - September 20, 15 7:17 PM

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#42
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 7:29 PM (permalink)
Soundblend
Platinum keeps trolling me...., where's the shotgun 


?

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#43
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 10:09 PM (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Vastman September 20, 15 10:37 PM
Change the output selection in sonar to buses instead of entire mix. Then select only your master bus as the source.
 
Then compare to see if that helped.

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#44
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 20, 15 10:42 PM (permalink)
Tom Riggs
Change the output selection in sonar to buses instead of entire mix. Then select only your master bus as the source.
 
Then compare to see if that helped.


This was mentioned a long time ago... and you haven't tried it?  Also, dithering to triangle... not a fair comparison... 
 
Others have questioned routings... I have inadvertently mucked this up before and my eye didn't catch it till I was fresh and got away from things for a day...
 
The fact that NO ONE is having this problem since SPlt was introduced indicates it's user error or oversight...you say you've had this problem with all SPlt versions... This does not seem to be a bug, although you're obviously "bugged" 
   "I have tried different versions :
* Ipswitch
* Hopkinton
* Foxboro
* Cambridge
All with the same result, so it has to be with prochannel, or platinum itself.
Need to solve this, in a way."
 
I'd suggest trying all the suggestions, carefully examining routings... there is an answer...
 
Also, calling this a "Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue" when you've had it in all versions of SPlat is... well... incorrect headlining... suggest changing it as it obviously isn't related to ipswitch.
 
 
 
post edited by Vastman - September 20, 15 10:55 PM

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#45
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 21, 15 3:13 AM (permalink)
PS: header changed to suit the issue

I have actually tried BUSS only export without Reverb and FX, thats just sounds horrible

But ill do it again and also show the export option, just to prove my point

Anyone can feel free to get the project file... to test it out ( it contains no audio ) so its got small size

@ Vastman : telling this to me :
" This does not seem to be a bug, although you're obviously "bugged"  "

That's just child'ish, when i got a real problem to solve, not acting like children on steroids
but some may not understand ?, even if they get it in with a tea spoon ! 
I am not here to offend, but seriously ... i need to respond sometimes.

Back to my issue :

* forget dithering, it has minor to no effect, i have said it several times, sure someone agree
* All instruments are VSTi's
* no automation
* no chorus or flanger
* no phase issues

All VSTi's are directly routed to the MASTER BUSS

VSTi's used are :

1. SI bass guitar
2. Ample Guitar M II
3. Addictive Drums 2
4. SynthMaster 2.7 Player

BUSS(es ) :

1. metronome =  ( muted )
2. Preview BUSS = for loops playback ( muted )
3. Delay bus with Karlette delay ( Active )
4. Reverb BUSS with Lexicon MPX reverb ( Active )

Routed to MASTER BUSS.

other than that some Prochannel EQ , Console, rematrix reverb

FX chain, with Klanghelm MJUC, and Code red free

That covers more or less the FX's

Ill do  again as suggested with BUSS export and only master and untick everything
ill post a Export dialog again also an new Audio example with the Woxengo ( as i hear the sound in sonar )
and the Cakewalk Mixdown once more

Atm, i need to go out for a short time but ill come back to it.. 
post edited by Soundblend - September 21, 15 7:02 AM
#46
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 21, 15 4:33 AM (permalink)
1 - Switch your export Source Category to Main Outs
2 - Export at 32 bit with NO DITHERING
3 - Import it back into Sonar on a new track
4 - Route this new track directly to your interface, bypassing the Sonar busses
5 - Invert the phase of the export. When you hit play, you should hear nothing.

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#47
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 21, 15 5:05 AM (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey
1 - Switch your export Source Category to Main Outs
2 - Export at 32 bit with NO DITHERING
3 - Import it back into Sonar on a new track
4 - Route this new track directly to your interface, bypassing the Sonar busses
5 - Invert the phase of the export. When you hit play, you should hear nothing.




Ok heres what i did :



1. Exported Main outs audio 32 bit wave, with no dither
2. opened new project and made 2 Audio tracks
3. first track is in normal mode ( no phase flip ) Green track
4. imported the same wave file into track 2 ( hit the phase flip button ) red track
5. Routed the audio directly to my interface

No sound on busse's ..

Hit play : And as you said i hear no sound ( complete silence )

if i mute 1 of the track's i will hear sound

Conclusion no phase issues



http://postimg.org/image/nvmkwo74d/
post edited by Soundblend - September 21, 15 5:26 AM
#48
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 21, 15 5:23 AM (permalink)
I gonna replace the Synthmaster 2.7 player ( arp sound ) with : an arp sound from z3ta+
and see if my " normal " export sounds exactly the same as in the DAW.


#49
Songroom
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 21, 15 5:51 AM (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Soundblend September 21, 15 6:55 AM
Hi,
 
If switching the arp doesn't help you locate the problem, I'd be happy to check the song on my system (project and audio files). Let me know if this would help and I'll PM my Dropbox account name to you.

Sonar Platinum - BandLab Cakewalk - Presonus 16.0.2 - Tannoys - Lava BandLamp ?

#50
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 21, 15 5:54 AM (permalink)
Soundblend
 
Ok heres what i did :

1. Exported Main outs audio 32 bit wave, with no dither
2. opened new project and made 2 Audio tracks
3. first track is in normal mode ( no phase flip ) Green track
4. imported the same wave file into track 2 ( hit the phase flip button ) red track
5. Routed the audio directly to my interface

No sound on busse's ..

Hit play : And as you said i hear no sound ( complete silence )

if i mute 1 of the track's i will hear sound

Conclusion no phase issues

http://postimg.org/image/nvmkwo74d/




i'm sorry but your conclusions are wrong - if you import the same track twice into a new project, flip the phase on one, you will always get perfect cancellation and zero output - that proves absolutely nothing
 
you should have read the suggestions properly where it says import it back into the same project and compare that via phase flip ...
 
Bristol_Jonesey
1 - Switch your export Source Category to Main Outs
2 - Export at 32 bit with NO DITHERING
3 - Import it back into Sonar on a new track
4 - Route this new track directly to your interface, bypassing the Sonar busses
5 - Invert the phase of the export. When you hit play, you should hear nothing.



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#51
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 21, 15 5:57 AM (permalink)
BTW, I'm still suspecting phase issues and you are mixing against it without noticing until the export ...
 
There are 2 prime suspects: AD2 (which has a phase problem if used with parallel compression and tracks not frozen) and your delay bus (check and post your delay times in ms ... if it's a multiple delay VST it's easy to have one of them set really short without noticing) ...
 
post edited by FreeFlyBertl - September 21, 15 6:06 AM

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#52
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 21, 15 6:29 AM (permalink)
Here's a new export from sonar
z3ta+ arpsound , 16bit 44.1khz no dither, whole mix export.
Concrete limiter 15db boost, due to loss of volume by EQ
on different tracks etc. this render seems accurate compared to what i hear in my DAW.

EDIT : Sound Example Deleted

I may suspect " some " different plugins / VSTi's to mess up the rendering !
as this export is correct, compared to the DAW sound.
post edited by Soundblend - September 21, 15 7:16 PM
#53
Songroom
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 21, 15 6:38 AM (permalink)
Certainly seems to have fixed the issue :-)

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#54
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Re: Sonar ( ipswitch ) export issue September 21, 15 6:39 AM (permalink)
Songroom
Certainly seems to have fixed the issue :-)



more or less i guess, need to have this in mind later on....

It is important to get rid of softsynth's and plugins that may affect the Cakewalk Sonar rendering

I do not know what causes it, that's the developers job to solve

(btw : stay away from Synthmaster 2.7 ( player ) 
Also plugins made with synthedit 
post edited by Soundblend - September 21, 15 7:00 AM
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