PilotGav
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Sonar for electronic music production?
I'm a more traditional musician... recording as much as I can through mics, or using virtual but traditional rock instruments. A friend of mine is a popular DJ in Toronto, knows my music, and has asked me to try my hand at producing electronic music - mixes, etc. for him. My question is... is Sonar still the tool to use, or should I really be looking at a 2nd setup like Ableton Live, etc? I'm hoping to stay in Sonar :-) I have a lot to learn either way. Thanks, Gavin
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musichoo
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/09 22:11:22
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I am not a fultime pro. But have done a few tracks that are 100% electronic or softsynth based. Rapture, dim pro & zeta are very capable. But l would recommend you to upgrade zeta to zeta+2 and get some expansion packs for rapture and dim pro. You might also want to look into synthmaster, massive or sylenth. Geist would be great for electronic drums.
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PilotGav
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/09 22:13:28
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musichoo I am not a fultime pro. But have done a few tracks that are 100% electronic or softsynth based. Rapture, dim pro & zeta are very capable. But l would recommend you to upgrade zeta to zeta+2 and get some expansion packs for rapture and dim pro. You might also want to look into synthmaster, massive or sylenth. Geist would be great for electronic drums.
Thanks! I LOVE Zeta+2. It's my favorite synth. Do you create your electronic music in TRACK view, as you would a more traditional recording project... or do you use other tools such as the step sequencer (yuch), the matrix, etc?
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MIDIMINDS
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/09 22:50:03
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I've completed nearly 100 EDM (Electronic Dance Music) tracks using Sonar. It really is as good as any other DAW for today's EDM and pop music.
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mettelus
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/09 22:57:13
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Which version of SONAR do you have now? X3 may be a quantum leap in functionality, so if you have the mindset of "kid in an amusement park" you will not be short on entertainment in learning. I prefer guitar, and I too am not a professional, but do a lot of playing as a hobby. The best thing about X3 is you can tailor your work flow a lot, so can determine what tools/views do the best job for you. Once you get your hands around work flows, you can customize your templates to suit your needs so you can throw in drums here, synth there, etc. and get recording very quickly. Interface and gear will also play into many things for you as well. There are a lot of resources all over to learn X3 with, and this forum is one of the best - excellent group of very knowledgeable and helpful people. I have only really used SONAR as a DAW, so I cannot speak to "which is better and for what reason." I think end-to-end X3 will do most things you will want to ever do... and if you prefer real equipment through mics, X3 does audio very nicely.
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sharke
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/09 23:31:17
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I think there are other DAW's which are marketed more toward the electronic producer, but I don't really see how they're better than Sonar for this style. I think maybe they make it easier for a beginner to put beats together and do all sorts of prepackaged fancy stuff, but if you're the kind of person who likes to get deep into the MIDI on a note by note basis instead of having pattern generators churn out stuff automatically, then I don't see any advantage in any other DAW.
Reaktor is a good tool to have if you want to get into electronic styles. It comes with all sorts of interesting grooveboxes and sequencers and sample manipulators, and if you have the full version you have access to the user library which is chock full of thousands of weird and wonderful instruments.
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AT
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 00:44:18
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Let's see, you can play your midi notes in. You can step sequence. You can load clips into the matrix and "perform" your loops live. You can bring in ACid files, Rex files or make your own acidized files in loop construction. SONAr has all the tools you need. Z3TA, Z3TA 2 (which you can get on sale dirt cheap if you wait), Rapture, DimPro and the older DXi synths can all make great sounds. I use those first 4 all the time on electronic sytles, tho I have Kontakt and Alchemy also. Christmas is coming up and Kontakt should be able to be had for a couple of hundred $. Alchemy player is free and you can see if you like it. One great synth if you like sound. Rapture and DimPro have various free libraries, see Patcharenea.com. You should be fine, just don't think too linearly, but as repeating (looping) 12 bars. @
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musichoo
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 00:48:37
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I played mostly on track view. (I am a classically trained pianist) and edit at prv view. Pvr and smart tools are what I use the most more midi editing. Never use matrix. Use lots of automation.
Sonar allows me to loop midi drums easily. Groove quantize. Step sequencer for programming drum beats.
Occasionally I would use CAL for manipulation of midi data.
With x3 I am spoiled for choice in the effects department. All the reverbs included are excellent. With prochannel and it's pop up analyzer I can get what I want very quickly. I find myself using concrete limiter (for and extra 80 bucks) very much.
Ok , I start to sound like a cw salesman. I should stop now.
The point is I am extremely happy with x3 and see very little incentive to buy ableton, fl or reason. I am sure they are all good and have plenty of fans.
That's my 2 cent.
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tomixornot
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 01:13:53
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If you have not, sign up with Groove3 this month (only) for the yearly pass. You'll learn a great deal of Sonar functionality and see if the workflow fits what you're looking for (as well as peeking into other DAWs, mixing, beat making, ele.music, etc).
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TomHelvey
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 01:34:36
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I've been using Sonar for my EDM cover band backing tracks for around a year now with really excellent results. I've been able to pretty accurately duplicate a lot of Calvin Harris patches using Z3TA+. A lot of people use Abletron for EDM, but I don't think there is much there that Sonar can't do better. We cover the current Billboard electronic dance charts and Sonar has worked great for everything we've done. Here is a cover of Gareth Emery's Concrete Angel all done in Sonar. https://soundcloud.com/th.../concrete-angel-take-2I've done Calvin Harris, David Guetta, Ellie Goulding, Armin van Buren, Rihanna, Krewella, Medina, Avicii, Daft Punk, you name it all in Sonar. I'd be lost on any other DAW. Z3TA+ is great and it's my go to synth for just about everything mainly because I've learned how to use it but you might also want to check out Sylenth if you're doing EDM. Avicii uses Sylenth for most of his tracks. You'll probably want to use both, Z3TA+ does some stuff that Sylenth doesn't and vice versa. Since most of the stuff I do has a time constraint (get it done for the next rehearsal/show) I haven't spent a lot of time playing with loops or grooves and pretty much stick to making the sounds myself.
post edited by TomHelvey - 2013/11/10 02:08:58
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 05:47:06
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I've learned to love Ableton's workflow for electronic dance stuff but its included instruments aren't as good,or rather Z3TA+ kills any synth offering in Ableton. On the production side there isn't much in Ableton you couldn't do with Sonar, just in a different and sometimes roundabout way. Some things are easier too. On the whole, unless you're going to perform live, I'm not sure it would really be worth your time to switch as Ableton takes quite a while to get used to.
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burkek
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 06:03:53
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Electronic is all I do and have done since 1982, and I've been using Cakewalk DAWs in all that time. Sonar is as adept at electronic music production as any other leading DAW. KEv
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thebiglongy
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 07:09:37
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If you want to make your own sounds, i.e. sound design for EDM/dance music then Ableton is probably your best bet. It is much easier to have control over individual sounds as well as allowing internal routing so you can get creative. Sonar is great if you are used to using it and providing you make good use of automation can work just as well in some cases. But as you may find, ableton live tends to be the main choice for dance music production. As for it's internal synths being rubbish, that is all down to the user plus, if you have any vsts, you can always use them in there.
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Blogman
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 09:07:05
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Native instruments 'Maschine', traktor pro, and Sonar....together! ;)
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bitflipper
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 11:18:11
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I'm like you, Gavin. Traditional instruments and samples of traditional instruments for the most part. But regardless of the methods of tone generation, electronic music is all about MIDI, and SONAR does MIDI as well as anyone and better than most. I gather that Z3ta+ and Rapture are favorites among the EDM crowd, along with Massive. Zebra suits my own needs better, as it's versatile enough to satisfy a broad range of genres. It's pretty much the only conventional synthesizer I use. It should also be noted that the secret weapon for people who knock out generic pop EDM quickly and easily is Nexus. It's a rompler, and overpriced IMO, but it's ready right out of the box for one-note EDM masterpieces. If I was ever offered a paying gig doing that kind of music, I'd invest in Nexus and let them think I was working harder at it than I really was.
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InstrEd
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 11:24:01
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I would just second the motion to try out Camel Audio's Alchemy.
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cryophonik
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 11:46:58
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PilotGav My question is... is Sonar still the tool to use, or should I really be looking at a 2nd setup like Ableton Live, etc?
I make of lot of electronica/EDM, and I also make a lot of pop/alt-rock, singer-songwriter stuff, etc. I do the majority of my work in Sonar, but I also use PT11, Ableton Live 9, and (previously) Studio One. Sonar is more than adequate for making any style of music, but really shines when it comes to EDM, mostly due to its MIDI capabilities. There's no need to try to learn a new DAW just to try a new style of music before you've explored the possibilities with your existing DAW. PilotGav Do you create your electronic music in TRACK view, as you would a more traditional recording project... or do you use other tools such as the step sequencer (yuch), the matrix, etc?
I do most of my work in the track and piano roll views, but the step sequencer is excellent for sequencing drums for EDM/electronica. In fact, it's one of the features that really sets Sonar apart from many other DAWs. My advice is to keep an open mind and take advantage of the tools available to you, rather than dismissing them.
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 11:57:42
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I'm pretty seasoned with edm . The tools set you get with sonar is more than you need . For me , rob papen plugins ,sugar bytes, z8ta. Dune, Catanya , punch evolved , Valhalla room verb, zplane elastic pitch , and a ton of loops sound ex's and midi gear ,including NI machine and the komplete bundle . Kontak,mouth,grt 5, reactor ect. Is basicly all I need to make any edm track.
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PilotGav
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 12:27:31
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Blogman Native instruments 'Maschine', traktor pro, and Sonar....together! ;)
Traktor Pro?? I own that but how does it integrate with Sonar? Or are you just saying for the actual performance side?
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PilotGav
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 12:30:15
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Thank you ALL for your excellent answers! Is there a set of tutorials (paid is fine) or anything else that would help me learn more about the theory and practical side of creating EDM? Gavin
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sharke
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 13:11:43
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JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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dubdisciple
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/10 13:19:01
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I find a good resource for EDM production tips are forums that focus on individual genres. They can be a little fanatical but tend to be useful
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mettelus
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/16 08:19:04
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When I first read this thread I misinterpreted it (assumed "electronic" meant DAW). For SONAR, the Matrix View is probably the "go to" for dance music creation. NI's Maschine would be very helpful to fire off the matrix though (which I do not own, since this is not my cup of tea). I did, however demonstrate the Matrix View to friends by recording a dance mix while they watched... just grab loops, through them into the matrix and fire them off while recording. For live performance can do the same easily. The Matrix View is very conducive to this method of music making/playing.
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/16 11:29:06
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Personally I find the matrix view is useless and it's not a magical solution to making edm . The matrix view is very non intuitive . It's good just to launch loops and one hits. sonar not being gapless really makes the matrix view useless compare to abelton live. I would never use sonar live. Ever! But you can use the matrix view for stuff like crash cymbals , backing loops .Something you need to trigger loops with . Personally I just add my stuff into the time line . The Matrix view is just a half baked idea such as beatscape. Some people find a good use for it .but it's not a magical solution to making edm. It's just another tools set at your disposal ..
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dubdisciple
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/16 11:39:06
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2015/11/16 13:24:35
Although I am sure good results can be had with matrix, I would bet that most EDM creators opt for track or prv or even the step sequencer. EDM has a wide range from what sounds like blips and pops to complex orchestra sequences. The matrix seems to appeal to a small niche of creators that would use primarily loops. I would reccomend watching videos of people making edm in various software. Computer music magazine usually includes video tutorials (often done by some name figure) and is heavily geared towards edm. Although none of these tuts use Sonar, the techniques usually are applicable. Obviously the ableton ones will be hard to emulate but the tuts using logic cubase or reason will be pretty easy to transfer
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sharke
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/16 13:22:29
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I make electro music and to be honest I've never even touched the Matrix. I have no idea how you'd make a decent track together with that, unless you just want to put together a mish mash of prepackaged loops. I can see how it would be useful in a live performance, but believe me there are no EDM producers out there arranging commercial music with the Matrix. Making electronic music is a very time consuming and intricate task which involves rolling up your sleeves and getting into the PRV on a note by note basis, not to mention the insane level of parameter automation going on. If you listen to a track like Red Knob by Siriusmo you can hear how much attention to detail some producers put into their music. Way above and beyond just triggering loops. Maybe I should have a play with it though, after all I have it!
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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dubdisciple
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/16 13:31:13
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Sharke..I keep telling myself I will do that, but I have not formed a system in my head that would lead to better results. I suppose I could change my mindest about matrix to see it more like fl studio where patterns are stacked. Perhaps program parts in loopable patterns and drag to matrix but it seems redundant. In any case I stand by my opinion thay the only guy making edm with matrix is the guy at the demo booth
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JoseC.
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/16 17:51:11
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dubdisciple Although I am sure good results can be had with matrix, I would bet that most EDM creators opt for track or prv or even the step sequencer. EDM has a wide range from what sounds like blips and pops to complex orchestra sequences. The matrix seems to appeal to a small niche of creators that would use primarily loops. I would reccomend watching videos of people making edm in various software. Computer music magazine usually includes video tutorials (often done by some name figure) and is heavily geared towards edm. Although none of these tuts use Sonar, the techniques usually are applicable. Obviously the ableton ones will be hard to emulate but the tuts using logic cubase or reason will be pretty easy to transfer
+1 about the matrix. Actually, you can see that even most of the Ableton Live EDM production tutorials in YouTube are using the Arrange (i.e. track) view, not Session (matrix) view.
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Lynn
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/16 17:58:56
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☄ Helpfulby PilotGav 2013/11/16 18:51:45
Gavin, why not check out the song forum? There you can find numerous examples of electronic music done on Sonar, as well as plenty of other genres.
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arachnaut
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Re: Sonar for electronic music production?
2013/11/18 04:20:02
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2015/11/16 13:26:07
I'm disappointed that MP3 tagging has made 'Electronic Music' synonymous with EDM. I've been composing electronic music since 1979, but nowadays I have to call it 'Experimental' or 'Avante Garde' or 'Garbage' or whatever. But, anyway, the DAW is not the issue - it's all in your head.
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