Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written.

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sharke
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2013/07/09 15:13:00 (permalink)

Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written.

This is a strange one. I have a MIDI bass pattern that's playing a C6 instead of the C5 as written. If I click on the note to hear it, the correct C5 is played. But upon playback Sonar is playing a C6. I've tried deleting the note and drawing it in again - same thing. There are plenty of other C5's in the same clip and they all play correctly. Doesn't matter what velocity I set either. There is no other controller data going on. 
 
For what it's worth, the bass instrument is Trilian. 
 
Any ideas? To tell you the truth it sounds kind of cool to have that high note pop out, but things like this worry me when I'm working on a project. 

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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    sharke
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/09 15:15:20 (permalink)
    UPDATE: There another strange thing going on in the same clip. I have a three note phrase a little later in the clip that is C5, C4, C5. If I start playback exactly on the first note of the phrase, all three notes are played as C5. If I start playback a little earlier, the correct notes are played. What is going on?

    James
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    #2
    scook
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/09 15:29:21 (permalink)
    Does the setting of Edit > Preferences > Customization > Display "Base Octave for Patches" come into play here or does Trillian have a similar adjustment.
     
    Your other issue sounds like the synth needs a little time before processing notes.
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    sharke
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/09 16:52:20 (permalink)
    It's not the "Base octave for pitches" option because other notes are sounding correctly. Trillian has a base octave control too and adjusting that makes no difference, i.e. if I raise it an octave then the same problem occurs only an octave higher. 
     
    I've tried various values for the MIDI buffer and also tried whacking my audio buffer up in various increments, but no joy. 
     
    In fact trying playback from different positions in the clip creates different kind of note errors. For instance, starting from one particular note results in Sonar playing the note previous to it first (and then it screws up the octave of the note after the next note). 
     
    Hmm, Sonar appears to have a problem with Trilian in a way I've never encountered before. I've tried outputting the clip in question to other instruments and it plays fine. 

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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    sharke
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/09 16:56:40 (permalink)
    Some extra information in case it's relevant: The bass part in question was generated from playing another bass part through the arpeggiator and then bouncing it to a MIDI clip. I wonder if doing that bounce has corrupted the MIDI data somehow? 
     

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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    scook
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/09 18:39:29 (permalink)
    Have you looked at the MIDI data in the event list?
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    sharke
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/09 18:43:29 (permalink)
    scook
    Have you looked at the MIDI data in the event list?




    Yep, nothing out of the ordinary there. Everything is as it should be. 

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/10 03:48:33 (permalink)
    Try it with a different synth & see what happens.
     
    Load up a bass patch in Dim Pro, copy the Midi from your Trillian track to the DP Midi track.

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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    Grem
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/10 04:36:22 (permalink)
    Jones I think he said he did that and it played fine.

    my suggestion would be copy the clip to another instance of Trillian and see.what happens. If it still does it, I'd look at Trillian.

    Grem

    Michael
     
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    jb101
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/10 04:45:53 (permalink)
    I'm thinking that it may be Trillian by now.
     
    Long shot, but is it a S.I.T. or a synth track + MIDI track?  If the former, is it worth splitting it?  It can't hurt to try.
     
    I'm sure I've had a similar issue to this before, but can't for the life of me remember the outcome.

     Sonar Platinum
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    konradh
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/10 13:14:48 (permalink)
    I would be suspicious of a controller or even a sysex msg generated by the arpeggiator.  If you are sure you don't need any sysex for anything, delete all the banks.  (Of course, if they don't have data, never mind.)
     
    Maybe you have already done this, but I would look at the event list and be sure all controllers are displayed.  For example, there could be a pitch wheel msg or a controller specific to this synth.
     
    Another thing that can happen: another track on the same MIDI channel has a controller that affects your bass track during playback.  It doesn't mess it up when you click the note because when you stop Sonar, all controllers are reset. 
     
    Have you tried soloing the track and turning off the MIDI input to eliminate the chance of a rogue controller in another track?

    Konrad
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    sharke
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/11 01:54:49 (permalink)
    Well thanks for the suggestions everyone. The good news is that the problem seems to have magically disappeared tonight, although I sure as hell didn't (consciously) do anything to fix it. Well I never....this had me stumped yesterday, and it seems all it needed was a good old dose of 24 hours 

    James
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    bitflipper
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/11 09:21:20 (permalink)
    Coincidentally, I just experienced the same thing last night: one note intermittently playing an octave higher than written. It wasn't Trillian, though; it was a Kontakt library.
     
    It was particularly frustrating because I wanted to freeze the track but had no way of knowing if the note would be interpreted correctly until I'd played back the frozen track. I knew there was nothing in the MIDI data except note and pitchwheel events, because I'd hand-planted them via the PRV. This was not X2, but 8.5.
     
    I tried it again this morning, and the part played correctly. The computer had not been rebooted, nor had any processes been stopped or started, other than SONAR itself. Only the time of day had changed.
     
    My theory at this point: sunspots. 


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
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    sharke
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/11 10:54:05 (permalink)
    bitflipper
    Coincidentally, I just experienced the same thing last night: one note intermittently playing an octave higher than written. It wasn't Trillian, though; it was a Kontakt library. It was particularly frustrating because I wanted to freeze the track but had no way of knowing if the note would be interpreted correctly until I'd played back the frozen track. I knew there was nothing in the MIDI data except note and pitchwheel events, because I'd hand-planted them via the PRV. This was not X2, but 8.5. I tried it again this morning, and the part played correctly. The computer had not been rebooted, nor had any processes been stopped or started, other than SONAR itself. Only the time of day had changed. My theory at this point: sunspots. 


    I'm actually beginning to think that Sonar has a "time of the month."

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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    drewfx1
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/11 11:45:53 (permalink)
    bitflipperI tried it again this morning, and the part played correctly. The computer had not been rebooted, nor had any processes been stopped or started, other than SONAR itself. Only the time of day had changed.
     
    My theory at this point: sunspots. 




    My theory - it's simulating a real bass player - as you probably already know we sometimes have our own ideas about what "playing the part correctly" means. 

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    sharke
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/11 22:11:32 (permalink)
    Oh great. Now, the damn thing has started playing the first few notes of a clip a semitone higher. I'm clearly going to have to rework this tune into free form jazz. 

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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    Grem
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/12 08:34:35 (permalink)
    Bitflipper, was it a bass note? IOW was it in the same range as Sharke's note?
     
    And Sharke, is the notes that are playing a semitone higher in the same range as the bass note was?
     
    Two different systems, two different programs, two different plugs/sample library, only one common thread here, sunspots!

    Grem

    Michael
     
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    konradh
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    Re: Sonar is playing one MIDI bass note an octave higher than written. 2013/07/12 11:47:08 (permalink)
    With soft synths, the problem for me has almost always been other tracks on the same MIDI channel introducing rogue controller or pitch wheel messages.  I always turn off all inputs on a track after I am through creating it.  I also always have a Controller 121 = 0 and a pitch wheel = 0 at the start of a MIDI track.  Finally, I always channelize when I am done recording: use Interpolate to set all msgs on a track to the same channel so I don't affect other tracks and so all events are recgonized.  (This can get messed up when recording parts from keyboards not necessarily transmitting the right channel.) 
     
    With external devices (not your situation), my problems have usually been sysex (same device numbers).  If you ever load a MIDI file from someone else, you can get some bizarre sysex stuff.
     
     

    Konrad
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