AnsweredSonar on a Mac

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2016/04/16 23:20:11 (permalink)

Sonar on a Mac

A buddy of mine wants to get into audio recording (mostly acoustic guitar/vocals/harmonica) and he only has a Mac. What's the best way for him to use Sonar (probably the Artist version is what he's needing). He doesn't have any hardware (yet), but want's to know about using Sonar on a Mac first.

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/16 23:39:22 (permalink)
He'd have to install Windows on the machine. There are a few guides online on how to do it but it won't run natively in OSX.
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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/17 03:11:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/04/19 09:20:15
They're still going to purchase a Windows OS
http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/
 
Haven't tried it for audio apps but seams to work for about everything else.

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/17 08:49:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/04/19 09:02:17
As others have said, have to buy Windows. Once he has that, he can then either virtualize it, or run it native, or both. The native solution is called Boot Camp. You tell OS-X to make a boot camp partition and then you install Windows on it. The system will then dual boot. It runs more or less just as well as a PC, since Macs are just commodity hardware in an overpriced shiny shell. There are occasional issues with drivers (like relating to power management on laptops) but rare. More or less it is just like Windows running on any other hardware.
 
The other option is virtualization where you you run a computer in your computer. For that you need a hypervisor. VMWare and Parallels are the two most popular. You install one of those and then either point it at your boot camp partition or you make a virtual partition and install it in that. The nice thing is it then runs as an application in your existing OS, so you can use both the host (MacOS) and guest (Windows) at the same time. The bad thing is that it takes a lot of resources, and can have issues with device passthrough and low latency so it is not ideal for audio production.
 
Realistically if he doesn't already own Windows (many Mac users do since there is a lot that doesn't run on OS-X) his best option is probably not to use Sonar and to get something else unless he wants to get Windows anyhow.
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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/18 09:37:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/04/19 09:02:03
On a Mac he already have GarageBand which is pretty good. Logic Pro is a really good and affordable for what you get. But Bootcamp is the way to go if your friend have to use Sonar on a Mac - and as other have stated, he will need a copy of windows. Running it through Parallels or other virtualization can be a cumbersome experience depending on what type of hardware you are using.
 
Sonar works really well on my Macs in Windows through Bootcamp, but it will drain the battery of a laptop really quick. My iMac also runs a bit hot but no biggie. The stability is surprisingly good, and although I don't use Sonar as much anymore, it seems to run better than it ever did on my WinPC's. I don't think your friend will run into any problems, but I would check out some of the DAWs already available on Macs

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/18 12:23:45 (permalink)
Thanks everyone........this was very helpful info. My buddy doesn't have any experience using a DAW, so it'll be a bit daunting at first. He has (I think an iMac.....G3 orG4?) and whatever software he uses, he'll probably have a lot of questions (which I may not be able to answer).....Sonar is the only DAW I can find my way around and was hoping this might work.
 
I do have an unused copy of Win 8 which I can give him (if he's willing to use Windows) and try bootcamp........he also has to get an audio interface/mic and whatever else he plans to use.......I just don't want to steer him in the wrong direction.

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/18 12:41:29 (permalink)
 
If you guys are planning on collaborating for the most part his DAW should not matter. Of course if you're going to be his tutor, him having SONAR running might be a necessity since as you say "Sonar is the only DAW I can find my way around".
 
As you have learned, simply exchanging exported track(s) is how most collaborations go, the DAW is of no concern as long as both can import/export .wav files.
 
Of course if you're going to have changes in tempo and/or time signature; exchanging a "shell" .cwp with those in place requires that you both have SONAR, else it would require the spelling out the tempo and or/or time signature changes by the main composer of the song.
 
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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/18 12:45:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/04/19 08:58:19
He might do best to simply use Logic, unless there are compelling reasons for using Sonar. Windows on a Mac is straightforward enough assuming it's a fairly up to date Mac. Without knowing which Mac it's difficult to say much more.

If it is a G3 or G4 he's basically stuffed because the old power PC machines which pre-date Apple's move to Intel cpus won't run current OS X or anything like it, nor will they run any current software.

An iMac should be fine. Though again, Logic will cost him much less than Sonar+Windows. And it has to be said that for DAW novices OS X's core audio and core MIDI make things much simpler than getting Windows to behave. Though Windows on Mac hardware is often easier to get working well for audio/video than Windows on generic PC hardware because Apple supply the core drivers and they know exactly what every component in a Mac is.

On the downside, Logic has its own peculiarities, isn't as well documented as Sonar and the powerful but arcane and obscure Logic MIDI environment is the worst documented part of it when it needs to be the most documented. There also isn't a forum dedicated to Logic that's anything like as good as this forum. There are sub-forums on KVR, gearsluts etc. but the signal to noise ratio tends to be poor.

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/18 15:13:57 (permalink)
 
UPDATE:  This has been resolved as nothing to do with GB.  Turns out the problem happened while converting formats in Logic Express  (whatever that is   )
 
FYI - I've had collaborators that use GB have weird tempo change problems exporting tracks.  Complete with pitch change to go along with it.
 
 
post edited by BobF - 2016/04/19 10:00:02

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/18 18:42:57 (permalink)
tlw
There also isn't a forum dedicated to Logic that's anything like as good as this forum. There are sub-forums on KVR, gearsluts etc. but the signal to noise ratio tends to be poor.



Try LogicProHelp, hosted by the certified trainer (who also writes the Apple certification books for Logic). Not the same vibe as these forums, but if one has a question about Logic, that's a pretty good place to ask.
 
EDIT - the forums software won't allow me to post a direct link.

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/19 09:02:50 (permalink)
I've asked my buddy to send me the specs on his Mac......although he'd liked to record music, I know he won't want to invest a lot of $$ into this (at least right now) and most likely will want something that's:
 
1) easy to set up
2) inexpensive
3) very easy to learn
 
Just briefly Googling DAW software, Reaper and Fruitloops seems to fit the bill...yes?
Also, if he has an older Mac (G3 or G4), can he use Garage Band and get good audio results? (if yes, then he only needs a decent Mic & audio interface right??) 
 
I'm trying to keep it simple as possible for him until he gets his feet wet.......and then he can make the choice of getting a better featured DAW if necessary.
 
(I'll suggest Bootcamp to him and see if he's willing to go that route, but would like to have all the best available options before suggesting anything).
 
 
 

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/19 09:29:46 (permalink)
I wouldn't consider Fruity Loops if he wants to record guitar and vocals primarily. It can be done, but it's much easier in other DAWs that cost the same or less - for example Reaper.
 
They only spec this: "Compatibility: OS X 10.9 or later" on the Garageband product page. If his Mac can run this, he can try that. He might even have it installed already. If not, he should find it in the AppStore. If he have one of the old PowerPC-macs then I think he might be out of luck for any DAW unless he find something vintage ;)

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/19 09:39:12 (permalink)
ProjectM
I wouldn't consider Fruity Loops if he wants to record guitar and vocals primarily. It can be done, but it's much easier in other DAWs that cost the same or less - for example Reaper.
 
They only spec this: "Compatibility: OS X 10.9 or later" on the Garageband product page. If his Mac can run this, he can try that. He might even have it installed already. If not, he should find it in the AppStore. If he have one of the old PowerPC-macs then I think he might be out of luck for any DAW unless he find something vintage ;)


I know he does have Garageband (coz he said he recorded some guitar via the onboard mic.....but, there was a lot of noise picked up). I don't know much about Garageband........can it produce (record/mix) fairly decent sounding audio? or is it very limited in doing that?
 
Thanks Maurice, I'll cross out Fruitloops and keep Reaper in mind.....

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/19 09:53:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/04/19 10:31:57
For your convenience, here's the link to the Garageband pages: http://www.apple.com/mac/garageband/
 
As you can see, it's fairly simmilar to Sonar interms of the linear timeline and track headers with Mute, Solo and Arm buttons. And it has pretty much the same audio engine as Logic so it should be no troubles in terms of audio quality as long as you have a decent interface. It works well with my MOTU Ultralite MK(something) but I think it can only record one mono track at a time or one stereo track. I'm not at my mac now so I can test for you. It also has a lot of virtual instruments and effects built in and is made to be easy for newbies. I would say it is the easiest and most affordable way to get started on a mac but the logic upgrade path would be to logic - which is a pretty decent kit anyway ;) GB projects can be opened directly in Logic if that ever becomes interesting.
 
Reaper is also a good choice I assume with a HUGE community for support and tips. IRC, there's a pretty decent intro level version of StudioOne too?

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/19 10:16:34 (permalink)
Thanks Maurice!! I appreciate the insight.

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/19 10:18:52 (permalink)
My pleasure, best of luck!

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/19 15:52:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/04/19 16:27:13
I second the advice that he should start by trying Garageband.

It's aimed at DAW beginners but can still produce reasonable results, although the tools and options available are limited. Which is probably no bad thing for a DAW beginner. It's installed on modern Macs by default and can be downloaded from the app store for free if it isn't already there or he's deleted it in the past. It also integrates well with Logic, which can open Garageband projects and even defaults on installation to resemble Garageband and with all Logic's advanced stuff hidden,

As for noise, etc. that'll be the same problem no matter which DAW. Built-in mics tend to be a little noisy to very noisy on any computer, and guitars tend to be noisy... A decent inexpensive interface will help, and so long as it supports Core Audio (almost all do) it should give low latency out of the box - no need to tune OS X, no need for ASIO drivers and all the other stuff that we go through with Windows. If he gets an interface with ASIO drivers he can always use it if he decides to switch to Windows and Sonar at some point.

If he had a PC I'd suggest without any hesitation at all that he tries a trial copy of Sonar. Since he doesn't have a Windows PC his zero-cost option is to try Garageband and see how he gets on. All DAWs (with the exception of Live) have a lot in common in terms of interface, what they do etc. and experience on one usually translates to others. Audio recording and engineering principles are the same no matter which software you use.

The one thing I think is a downside to Logic is that many of the supplied plugins aren't as good as Sonar's. The synths are good, the compressors are OK and the eq is well, a standard issue one of the type found in all DAWs. The "effects" end of things, such as modulation plugins and delays, is better covered by Sonar. Third party plugs can fill all the gaps of course, but add substantially to the cost if you're not happy with those bundled with Logic. How Logic handles cpu threading when monitoring via Logic can be a pest as well. Amplitube alone almost brings my i7 MacBook Pro to its knees because Logic pushes it all through one core which hits 100% unless latency is set rather high. My sig PC hardly notices it running in Sonar.

Edited to add a PS. If he's using a power PC Mac it is going to be seriously old, in computer terms it's an antique. I know a couple of people who still use them amd swear by them, but it's more to do with their personal "religious" opposition to changing how anything was done over a decade ago than anything sensible. Like they think the web was perverted from the oroginal intent and ruined when pictures arrived... Let's just say they're a bit weird.
post edited by tlw - 2016/04/19 16:18:24

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/19 16:21:32 (permalink)
Excellent info there tlw!! Thank you sir, I appreciate all the details. AFIK, his family basically uses the Mac for just normal day to day activities and some minor video conversions (iPhone to Youtube). I did LOL at your last comment....
 
 I wasn't sure which interface is best for him and did look at what Focusrite had to offer on the Mac side.....without knowing the actual specs and budget (which he said he'll forward to me tonight), it's a bit tough to know what to look for.
I'll post back once I find out what we're working with...

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/19 16:46:17 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby Mesh 2016/04/20 09:30:21

post edited by bapu - 2016/04/19 17:31:24
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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/19 17:05:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/04/19 20:13:11
I saw this thread the other day and I wanted to see where it went before I said anything in it .
My impression then and now is still the same …
Your friend would do well to get a hold of a decent USB interface first so he could record before he spends money on any thing else …( he may not need anything else if he learns his way around G B )
 
all the best ,
 
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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/19 20:01:37 (permalink)
kennywtelejazz
I saw this thread the other day and I wanted to see where it went before I said anything in it .
My impression then and now is still the same …
Your friend would do well to get a hold of a decent USB interface first so he could record before he spends money on any thing else …( he may not need anything else if he learns his way around G B )
 
all the best ,
 
Kenny
 


Thanks Kenny, that's kind of what I was thinking too......any good audio interfaces you can recommend in the $100 range? (just thinking out aloud here and haven't spoken to him yet.....possibly 1 to 2 line/mic in/out and headphone)

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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/19 22:54:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/04/20 08:49:47
Mesh
kennywtelejazz
I saw this thread the other day and I wanted to see where it went before I said anything in it .
My impression then and now is still the same …
Your friend would do well to get a hold of a decent USB interface first so he could record before he spends money on any thing else …( he may not need anything else if he learns his way around G B )
 
all the best ,
 
Kenny
 


Thanks Kenny, that's kind of what I was thinking too......any good audio interfaces you can recommend in the $100 range? (just thinking out aloud here and haven't spoken to him yet.....possibly 1 to 2 line/mic in/out and headphone)




Hi Mesh , 
 
Your friend can probably get himself a Scarlett Solo or the next one up from that model price wise .
I'm sure one of those would be more than OK as a starter card ….
( I wouldn't mind getting one to keep in my lap top bag )
 
Your friend may need to look into a USB interface that runs well on both PC and Mac since we don't know if he is gonna bootcamp his Mac or pick up a Win computer at some point later on down the road …most of them out there do work fine in both platforms .
 
If your buddy decides to stay Mac only The Apogee One sounds like a solid contender if he could ever swing the coin ..
I have an Apogee GiO ( Love IT ) and I'm trying to save up for The Apogee One myself .. wink .
 
Anyway , back to the cheap seats in the bleachers , lol 
 
I have the 2i4 and it runs great on my Mac's  I'm getting much better Audio performance and significantly lower latency than what I get in Windows 10 64bit 
 
Never even had to install any drivers for the 2i4 …it was plug  & play Baby …Core Audio Rocks Man 
 
all the best ,
 
Kenny 
 
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/04/20 03:38:31

                   
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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/20 08:56:47 (permalink)
Once again, thanks Kenny....very helpful info.
 
Not sure if he'll want to go the Windows route as he only has used Macs/iPhones/iPads etc....and probably won't want to start messing with Windows right now (especially if has to troubleshoot).
 
BTW, he has in iMac 8.1 (2.4GHz) and 4GB of RAM. Not sure how well that 4GB of ram will hold up, but it should be ok if he doesn't use a lot of soft synths.
 
I also have a 2i4 and love it, but wasn't sure how well they work on Macs/drivers etc...
So, it's good to know that the 2i2's & 2i4's work well on Macs. He probably only needs a 2i2 which should serve him well.   
 
I don't how good that Scarlett Solo Studio pack is, but that's about what he needs......I'll find out what his budget is before looking into a separate mic/H-phones.
 

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ProjectM
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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/20 09:26:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/04/20 09:54:05
I have some friends who run a divercity of Scarlets on Macs - they are very happy and get super low latencies. I think you can safely recommend it ;)

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Rain
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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/20 15:50:14 (permalink)
I've used a Scarlett for a few years. Apple's own default drivers seem to work just as good as the manufacturer's own in many cases - I'm still using the default drivers with my NI Komplete Audio 6.

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Mesh
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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/20 16:05:54 (permalink)
Rain
I've used a Scarlett for a few years. Apple's own default drivers seem to work just as good as the manufacturer's own in many cases - I'm still using the default drivers with my NI Komplete Audio 6.


That's actually a very commendable thing for Macs to have such good drivers. PC parts on the other hand are cheaper, but there's more work involved.
Rain, thanks for chiming in on the Scarlett.......I can recommend it to him with confidence.  

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tlw
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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/21 04:51:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/04/21 08:38:24
That iMac's a little underpowered perhaps, but should run Garageband and even Logic so long as it's not too heavily loaded. The 4GB RAM is possibly the weak spot, though OS X is pretty light on system resources as modern operating systems go.

One thing he probably would benefit from is an external 7200rpm drive (with its own power supply) to spool audio to. The hard drive built into a lot of iMacs is a 5400rpm one and spooling multitrack audio to and from it while it's also used for paging and is the system drive might be a bit much for it to cope with. Apple hybrid drives also have a bit of a question mark regarding using them for audio spooling. If it has an Apple-fitted SSD that should cope OK to start with, but an external drive is still the better way to go.
post edited by tlw - 2016/04/21 05:19:27

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Mesh
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Re: Sonar on a Mac 2016/04/21 08:33:44 (permalink)
Thanks Tim!!
Some excellent advice you and all others (well Bapu is Bapu ) have given here. I haven't had a chance to discuss the details about this whole setup with my friend, so I doubt he's aware of what's lying ahead for him.
 
I appreciate the details about 5400HD and the external HD (very useful to know)......it's going to be a bit tough for him considering his iMac is quite equipped for pro audio, but that's a decision he'll have to make.   

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