Sonar shifts MIDI Events

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Heiko
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2009/11/23 10:56:37 (permalink)

Sonar shifts MIDI Events

Hi guys,
I have a problem with Sonar.
My aim is to tune midifiles which I have recorded with the internal sequencer of my Yamaha keyboard Tyros in order to play these on the keyboard.
The Yamaha files use the excellent XG effects which are controlled by lots of sysex events. This is the reason for my problem.
If I use sysex banks (a hook set in Global Options) all notes are shifted by one tick with each sysex bank. There is no method to get the notes back to the orginal positions. So the notes lose the correct contact to measures.
I do not see any grounds for this behavior: I think a bug.
The only method to get over this behavior is to remove the hook in Global Options. The old Cakewalk sequencer Professional 8 did not have that awkward properties with sysex banks.
Heiko
#1

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    bitflipper
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 12:15:40 (permalink)
    I don't have a solution for you, Heiko, as I rarely use sysex events. I am just amazed that you can even hear a one-tick shift. That's about 1 millisecond at the default settings!


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #2
    Heiko
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 13:52:31 (permalink)
    Hi bitflipper,
    this is no good answer.
    Sonar demolishes my midifile. XG midifiles often have 100 sysexes and more in the initialisation measure and after load and save all events are shifted. What shall I do, if I want to print a correct fake?
    Tell me please, for which reason Sonar shifts sysex banks and not sysex data events?  I can help myself since a friend in the German Yamaha Keyboard forum found that we have to delete the by default set hook in Global Options.  
    #3
    John
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 14:03:24 (permalink)
    I wish knew what you are saying Heiko.

    Best
    John
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    Susan G
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 15:19:53 (permalink)
    Hi Heiko-
    XG midifiles often have 100 sysexes and more in the initialisation measure and after load and save all events are shifted. What shall I do, if I want to print a correct fake?

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean, either, but I'll take a stab at it.

    I have a Yamaha Motif, and I Bulk Dump the initial settings to SONAR and save it in Sysex View as an auto-send file so whenever I open the project the settings are automatically sent to the Yamaha. I've never had a problem with MIDI events being shifted.

    Are you saying your MIDI files have embedded sysex banks besides the initial setup? Or are you talking about CC messages like Program Change, etc.?

    If you can give us more details about your MIDI files (or just upload one somewhere) it'll be easier for us to help.

    Does the Event List reflect the one tick offset?

    Also, which version of SONAR are you using?

    Thanks-

    -Susan



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    #5
    Heiko
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 15:21:03 (permalink)
    Look at my message in
    http://www.cakewalkforum....s/viewtopic.php?t=2144
    and try the testfile
    Heiko
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    Susan G
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 15:35:23 (permalink)
    Hi Heiko-

    It seems from reading the posts in your link that both of your problems have been solved. If so, great! If not, I'd ask the same questions I asked above before downloading your test file.

    -Susan



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    #7
    Heiko
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 15:49:16 (permalink)
    Hello Susan,
    My friends and me don't use my midifiles to play these from Cakewalk/Sonar into the keyboard's soundgenerator. After we have edited the files with Sonar, we play the files with the keyboard only.
    Autorun is a feature of Cakewalk only, not of midifiles.

    Yamaha keyboards use to send all events of the initialisation measure (setup events, without any notes) automatically when the file is loaded. Then the start continues immediately with the notes ( = Yamaha Quickstart).
    At the keyboards we can activate a special Score Display. Here we can look in realtime at the notes, the lyrics and the chords which are realized by special Yamaha XF Metaevents.
    In the score I expect to see the notes on correct positions, even I do not quantisize the score-notes.
    Best regards Heiko

       
    #8
    John
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 16:01:30 (permalink)
    Don't use the score to view the notes use the PRV.  See if that makes more sense to you. I still don't understand much of what you said.

    Sonar uses a special way to handle sysex data it the sysex view. That can send, receive and save sysx data as well as load it from file. Its also a sysx editor.

    Autosend is a sysx view option. 

    Best
    John
    #9
    Heiko
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 16:05:40 (permalink)
    Hello Susan,
    indeed, the problems are solved. But my friends and me had to live a long time with the bug until one of us has detected how to bypass the shift of midi events.
    My question remains unanswered: Is it a bug or a good feature?
    Sonar shifts with banks but not with sysex data. Cakewalk Professional did not shift events. Why?
    Heiko

    hpmusic: http://www.heikoplate.de/mambo
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    Susan G
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 16:06:15 (permalink)
    Hi Heiko-
    Autorun is a feature of Cakewalk only, not of midifiles.

    I never mentioned "Autorun", just "auto-sending" SYSX banks. Otherwise (including your "activating a special Score Display"), I honestly have no idea what you're talking about, sorry.

    -Susan

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    #11
    Susan G
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 16:13:41 (permalink)
    Hi Heiko-
    My question remains unanswered: Is it a bug or a good feature?

    You haven't answered our questions, either.

    -Susan

    2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAM
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    #12
    John
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 17:41:11 (permalink)
    My question remains unanswered:

    If I knew what the question was then I would try to answer if I knew the answer.

    I am not trying to to put you off. I am trying to understand what is going on. So far I have no idea.

    Best
    John
    #13
    Fret Wizz
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/23 17:58:52 (permalink)
    Hello Heiko,

    Check out SONAR's "Nudge" feature.

    If you can work out exactly how many ticks
    your tracks are moved by, you should be able
    to "Nudge" 'em back to where you want them.

    Fret Wizz
    SONAR  8.5 PE 64 bit : Win 7 Ultimate 64 Bit :  Echo MIA
    #14
    Heiko
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    Re:Sonar shifts MIDI Events 2009/11/24 03:02:00 (permalink)
    Hi guys,
    I'll try the "Nudge" feature, thank you for the hint.
    But my difficulties have gone because I know a solution: In future I will not use sysex banks any more.
    My aim for this thread is to help all Sonar and Cakewalk 9 users who have this shift problem and do not know, how to solve it. Perhaps they now can search and find the solution in the web.
    In Germany we have a lot of firms which produce and sell midifiles to be played with Yamaha XG keyboards. I did not find a commercial file where the notes of a programmed "count in" are not correct at beat positions or where the notes of a programmed melody channel are not displayed in a correct manner in the score window of the keyboard display.
    I think we can finish the discussion.
    Regards Heiko 

    #15
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