AnttiSuonio
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Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
I just got a brand new computer with much more power in processor. Yes!
But: It seems that CPU threads are not used evenly and few hungry plugins (f.ex. 2 x IzoTope Ozone) can get Sonar crackling and popping. CPU meter tells that the first core goes on 90% when all the seven others work on 5%.
-I have Sonar Platinum with latest version
-I have checked "Use multiprocessor engine" in preferences. Also, "MixThreadCount" in configuration is set to "0", which means using all threads in processor.
-Problem is not only with Ozone-plugins, but all plugins and soft synths.
-No matter if the buffer size is 128 or 512 or 1024.
Any ideas how to solve this problem?
Thanks for any help!
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AnttiSuonio
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 08:58:18
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CPU meter looks like this. 
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bitflipper
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 09:12:19
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☄ Helpfulby stevesweat 2016/09/14 10:15:33
That's normal. It's just the nature of audio processing that much of the job can't be split into multiple tasks and assigned to different cores. However, you're still getting the benefit of a more powerful CPU because all the other tasks Windows has to do behind the scenes can make use of the other cores.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 12:45:56
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☼ Best Answerby AnttiSuonio 2016/09/15 08:18:15
We have a new feature coming up called Plugin Load Balancing which is designed specifically to handle situations like this by doing parallel processing of effects bins. This will be a Platinum exclusive.
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bitflipper
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 12:51:16
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Very cool, Noel. That's just the sort of thing that has traditionally distinguished SONAR from the crowd: not just the glitzy features that make for good ad copy, but real, practical features that make the experience more satisfying.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 12:58:22
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Thanks. I'm obviously biased so you can take my opinion for what its worth but I think the approach we've taken is quite groundbreaking compared to what others DAW's do in this area.
Most other attempts use lookahead processing to try and solve this, which introduces other problems like latency or induces delay when changing parameters in realtime. Our approach doesn't introduce any latency or side effects like that.
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Shambler
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 13:08:59
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That sounds great! Would also be nice if we could tell SONAR to run a specific VST instance on a particular core. Don't know if that is possible or desirable?
post edited by Shambler - 2016/09/14 13:32:29
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 13:18:30
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Not desirable or easily possible since you want to optimize balancing across all available cores. Otherwise you will just get spiking on a different core.
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muzdol
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 13:23:49
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I think there is a option about this situation, threadscheduling or something.
Make the value 2.
That helps the cpu load unifomrly used so that relax this uneven distribution.
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abacab
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 13:37:42
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
We have a new feature coming up called Plugin Load Balancing which is designed specifically to handle situations like this by doing parallel processing of effects bins. This will be a Platinum exclusive.
Good news indeed! It is encouraging that Sonar software development is headed in that direction. Most of the hardware architecture of the modern Intel Core platforms has reduced or eliminated the past hardware bottlenecks. Given enough CPU frequency, memory bandwidth, high speed buses, and so on, the question has become "how many cores/threads do I really need?" I helped a friend spec and build a new PC last year primarily for Photoshop, and potentially, video editing. I searched for then current benchmarks on multiple core performance. They were typically i3, vs. i5, vs. i7, etc. The biggest takeaway I discovered was that 4 cores (or more) were really only of use if the software was written to take advantage of multi cores. The biggest performance gain seen was going from just a single core to dual core, which was huge, then the curve trailed off with the addition of cores/threads. At this stage of the race it's all about the fastest horse, i.e. the Ghz. I may need that Core i7 after all 
post edited by abacab - 2016/09/14 14:00:14
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 13:42:30
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SONAR has taken advantage of multiple cores since 2003 so any multicore system with 2 or more cores would see major advantages :) Every track, bus or synth gets scheduled to as many threads as there are cores.
Whats new now is we're taking it to yet another level and multiprocessing effects bins as well.
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davec69
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 13:46:56
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Download "Park Control Free" to see if your CPU cores are all available and unparked. The software has profiles that can boost CPU performance by ensuring that all of you CPU cores are available to running applications. https://bitsum.com/parkcontrol/ This in addition to what "muzdol" mentioned above, worked for me. Glad to hear about the upcoming plugin load balancing feature. Sounds very cool.
Toshiba P75-A7200 LaptopIntel i7-4700MQ 16GB RAM2 x 1TB Hybrid DrivesWindows 10Sonar Platinum (Last Update)Cakewalk Bandlab (Latest Update)Roland Quad Capture (Bios 1.04 / 1.52 drivers)
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outland144k
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 15:37:00
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Thanks. I'm obviously biased so you can take my opinion for what its worth but I think the approach we've taken is quite groundbreaking compared to what others DAW's do in this area.
Most other attempts use lookahead processing to try and solve this, which introduces other problems like latency or induces delay when changing parameters in realtime. Our approach doesn't introduce any latency or side effects like that.
This is so cool. It might result in my getting a bit more time out of my computer before feeling like I need to build a new one (I'm hoping). Thanks for doing this! I do have a question on this, however. Right now, my threads are being used pretty evenly. The first thread is a bit higher, but not a huge difference, really. Is what the meters show reflective of Sonar use (alone) or the computer's use load generally? Thanks for a wonderful program!
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless. 
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LLyons
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/14 18:43:26
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Thank you Noel and team. I have a good processor now, and your ideas and inventions will add far more to it.
L Lyons DOS and Windows Pro Audio 2-9 from 12 Tone, Sonar 2, 2XL, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 8.5, Producer, Producer Expanded, X1 Producer, X2 Producer, X3 Producer and now Sonar Platinum 64 bit - 2nd year Home Built Machine 32G Ram - Corsair Vengeance DDR4 Win 10 Pro Intel i7-6700K Gigabyte Z170-UD5 Thunderbolt3 - AVB ready Planar Hellium 27 touchscreen Limited connection to internet DAW use ONLY WAVES 9.2 64 Bit MOTU 1248 - Connect Thunderbolt MOTU AVB Switch Presonus RM32ai - Connect firewire 800 CS18ai - Connect AVB
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/15 06:39:05
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outland144k
This is so cool. It might result in my getting a bit more time out of my computer before feeling like I need to build a new one (I'm hoping).
Thanks for doing this!
I do have a question on this, however. Right now, my threads are being used pretty evenly. The first thread is a bit higher, but not a huge difference, really. Is what the meters show reflective of Sonar use (alone) or the computer's use load generally?
Thanks for a wonderful program!
The benefits you see really depend on the workload in the project so gains are not always one size fits all. If your project load is already fairly balanced across tracks and buses you will see less benefit from it. Where the most benefit is seen is in projects where you might have a stack of high CPU effects on one track or bus (or an fxchain or prochannel for that matter). In those cases this can even out the load by making use of multiple cores. Basically a divide and conquer approach to allow the load to be processed in parallel. The meters currently show just SONAR's audio processing load. There is an additional feature with new CPU metering modes that show overall system load also coming up :)
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Leadfoot
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/15 07:42:08
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My first core used to carry the brunt of the load. I've noticed a big improvement with the latest update. All my cores are pretty much even now.
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outland144k
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/15 11:33:37
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
outland144k
This is so cool. It might result in my getting a bit more time out of my computer before feeling like I need to build a new one (I'm hoping).
Thanks for doing this!
I do have a question on this, however. Right now, my threads are being used pretty evenly. The first thread is a bit higher, but not a huge difference, really. Is what the meters show reflective of Sonar use (alone) or the computer's use load generally?
Thanks for a wonderful program!
The benefits you see really depend on the workload in the project so gains are not always one size fits all. If your project load is already fairly balanced across tracks and buses you will see less benefit from it.
Where the most benefit is seen is in projects where you might have a stack of high CPU effects on one track or bus (or an fxchain or prochannel for that matter). In those cases this can even out the load by making use of multiple cores. Basically a divide and conquer approach to allow the load to be processed in parallel.
The meters currently show just SONAR's audio processing load. There is an additional feature with new CPU metering modes that show overall system load also coming up :)
Thanks for the answer. I'm really looking forward to seeing this. I've got an old i7-2600K oc'ed to 4.5 gHz and it still seems pretty fast in many ways, but in about ten months, give or take, I'm intending an upgrade to a new system. The combined load metering, however, should give me an objective way of ascertaining if an upgrade is a necessity or not. It's really hard to know how much of a performance boost (if any) I'd get from an oct core i7 as opposed to my oc'ed quad core. Like you've said, with the what I'm currently seeing, maybe an upgrade isn't really necessary. Sometimes it seems I'd get enough of a boost from a RAM increase to 32 GB from 16 GB and maybe an SSD system drive (if my mobo is up to that). It's just probably going to be that much easier to check with combined load metering.
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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bitflipper
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/15 11:51:01
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
There is an additional feature with new CPU metering modes that show overall system load also coming up :)
This just keeps getting better and better...
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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torerk
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/26 06:06:45
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Is the "Plugin Load Balancing" implemented? I can't find it where it's supposed to be (Edit > Preferences > Audio - Playback and Recording and select Plug-In Load Balancing.)
My sonar platinum should be completely up to date as far as I know...
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torerk
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2016/09/26 06:42:21
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PS, Thanks to you for a good hint, Davec69. Parkcontrol made wonders with my project. Lots off effects, lots of Omnisphere synt in a previously kneeling project is running smooth as a dream. (I got i7, 8 cores)
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phil5633
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2017/03/17 20:51:32
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I've turned on the Plugin Load Balancing and all 8 threads of my existing i7 920 seem to be used to some extent. But I'm currently selecting components for a new computer with an i7 processor that will have 12-20 threads. Is there a limit to the number of threads that SONAR can use?
Bill
BillP - SONAR Platinum, MOTU 828mkII, Focusrite 18i8, Akai MPK49, Windows 10 x64, Core i7-6850K 3.60GHz, 32GB DDR4, ASUS X99-DELUXE--II MB, AMD R7 250 GPU, Behringer ADA8000, dbx 386, (2) Aphex 207, (2) ART TPS II, Presouns E5/E8, Avantone MixCubes, Presonus Monitor Station v2
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chuckebaby
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2017/03/17 20:59:48
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phil5633
I've turned on the Plugin Load Balancing and all 8 threads of my existing i7 920 seem to be used to some extent. But I'm currently selecting components for a new computer with an i7 processor that will have 12-20 threads. Is there a limit to the number of threads that SONAR can use?
Bill
It must be "bump old thread Friday" I could be wrong but I believe it is 12. Ideally, you want fast clock-speed and more cores. You really don't want to sacrifice one for the other. Also keep in mind the difference between physical cores and virtual Example: 8 physical/16 virtual
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phil5633
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2017/03/17 22:45:43
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chuckebaby
It must be "bump old thread Friday"
I could be wrong but I believe it is 12. Ideally, you want fast clock-speed and more cores.
You really don't want to sacrifice one for the other. Also keep in mind the difference between physical cores and virtual
Example: 8 physical/16 virtual
Thanks Chuck. Right now I'm leaning toward the i7-6850 which has 6 cores and 12 threads. So 12 would work for me. Sorry for bumping an old thread. It's the only one I could find on the subject of SONAR's multi-core support.
BillP - SONAR Platinum, MOTU 828mkII, Focusrite 18i8, Akai MPK49, Windows 10 x64, Core i7-6850K 3.60GHz, 32GB DDR4, ASUS X99-DELUXE--II MB, AMD R7 250 GPU, Behringer ADA8000, dbx 386, (2) Aphex 207, (2) ART TPS II, Presouns E5/E8, Avantone MixCubes, Presonus Monitor Station v2
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2017/03/18 03:17:02
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Since we are bumped and all - just thought I would mention that in addition to making sure cores aren't parked, you will also want to go into Preferences>Audio>Configuration File and edit the parameter ThreadSchedulingModel, and set it to a value of 2, which will improve Sonar performance for multi-core processors.
Bob Bone
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Billy86
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2017/03/18 03:38:54
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AnttiSuonio
CPU meter looks like this.
I've been using the free version of this, and it's made a huge difference getting all my cores in the game, spreading the load. https://bitsum.com/parkcontrol/
Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
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Billy86
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2017/03/18 03:43:38
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davec69
Download "Park Control Free" to see if your CPU cores are all available and unparked. The software has profiles that can boost CPU performance by ensuring that all of you CPU cores are available to running applications.
https://bitsum.com/parkcontrol/
This in addition to what "muzdol" mentioned above, worked for me.
Glad to hear about the upcoming plugin load balancing feature. Sounds very cool.
+1. Has worked great for me.
Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
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gswitz
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2017/03/18 03:48:39
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It depends a lot on what is causing the issue.
For example, if you load up Rapture and turn the voices way up it is possible to do this to the first processor.
For me, this is the only thing I do that causes the first processor to run too hot.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Bhav
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2017/03/18 11:17:53
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One thing thats funny about this is that over a decade ago now when I was at uni, just about everyone in music including the lecturers were mad about more cores, and particularly for pro tools. I was pretty much thinking in the back of mind 'none of these nubs have probably even checked their CPU utilization or ran a single PC benchmark on their 2 grand + web browsing machines. And not only for music production, but a lot of other productivity tasks, people would focus on maxing out their cores. I followed a thread online where loads of users were buying dual CPU 8 core workstation macs for over 5 grand, with no idea why they actually needed that many cores other than the 'moar cores' mentality. Even today, very little software makes much use of more than 4 cores, the only reason where something like my current hex core comes into use is multitasking, or for me really only when using real time video game recording software, and then compressing the videos. The thing in my sig literally only exists because Im also a PC enthusiast and I want the best stuff, though Im skipping 1080 Tis and waiting for Volta GPUs later this year or next year.
I also have a minimum spec under £300 secondary back up system for when my main one breaks down using just a dual core pentium. Other than for gaming, it has no issue with simple every day use for the rest of my family, and actually boots up and browses the net faster because theres nothing else running in the background and no apps or anything that it needs to be clogged up with. It even runs my library of simple indie games on steam when something's broken in my main PC. Most people who buy general use home computers and dont even play AAA or demanding video games waste so much money when they buy anything more than an <£50 Intel dual core (also AMD CPUs in the <£100 price range are terribly slow even with 4 cores, and are only worthwhile for the superior integrated graphics if you plan on playing anything more than 2D indie games).
I7 6850k, Asus RV10E, 32 Gb ram, SLI GTX 980 Ti, Creative Soundblaster Z, Yamaha DGX 630, Creative Aurvana Platinum headphones.
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phil5633
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2017/03/18 17:38:17
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Bhav, I notice you have a i7 6850K which is the processor I plan to use in the PC I'm preparing to build. How is it working for you with SONAR? Do you have Plugin Load Balancing turned on in SONAR? Are your SONAR projects significantly loading your CPU's 12 threads? How much memory are you using? I'm planning on either 32 or 64 GB.
BillP - SONAR Platinum, MOTU 828mkII, Focusrite 18i8, Akai MPK49, Windows 10 x64, Core i7-6850K 3.60GHz, 32GB DDR4, ASUS X99-DELUXE--II MB, AMD R7 250 GPU, Behringer ADA8000, dbx 386, (2) Aphex 207, (2) ART TPS II, Presouns E5/E8, Avantone MixCubes, Presonus Monitor Station v2
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phil5633
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Re: Sonar using mainly the first CPU thread?
2017/03/18 17:51:55
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robert_e_bone
..... you will also want to go into Preferences>Audio>Configuration File and edit the parameter ThreadSchedulingModel, and set it to a value of 2, which will improve Sonar performance for multi-core processors.
Bob Bone
Bob, what does changing the ThreadSchedulingModel for 1 to 2 do? Billy86
AnttiSuonio
CPU meter looks like this.
I've been using the free version of this, and it's made a huge difference getting all my cores in the game, spreading the load. https://bitsum.com/parkcontrol/
Billy86 now that Plugin Load Balancing is available in SONAR, is ParkControl still needed? If yes, what does it do that enabling the Multi-Processor Engine and Plugin Load Balancing do?
BillP - SONAR Platinum, MOTU 828mkII, Focusrite 18i8, Akai MPK49, Windows 10 x64, Core i7-6850K 3.60GHz, 32GB DDR4, ASUS X99-DELUXE--II MB, AMD R7 250 GPU, Behringer ADA8000, dbx 386, (2) Aphex 207, (2) ART TPS II, Presouns E5/E8, Avantone MixCubes, Presonus Monitor Station v2
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