Sonar vs. Pro Tools

If any of you have seen any of my posts, and I'm relatively new to this forum, you know I have "cross-graded" from PTLE to Sonar. Well, I actually have them both on the same PC, so I can use either one whenever I want.

Point is, Sonar sounds better. And I love not being artificially crippled by software and hardware. Sonar lets me work with whatever hardware I want, set my screens up any way I want, organize plugins any way I want, use unlimited tracks, organize large sessions in folders, no skippy track resizing, REAL right-click menus, full mouse wheel support,etc,etc.

AND....Sonar sounds better. Must be the 64bit engine. I just can't get over it, like I'm on my honeymoon or something. I like the look and feel. I can work very quickly, and the EQ plot is very useful, as is the FX setup and synth rack architecture.

Anyways, long story short, I'm a new fan of Sonar. Thanks, Cakewalk! Screw DIGI and their empire of overpriced hardware, I have a 48 I/O setup (MOTU -yes the windows drivers are fine), and it's expandable as large as I could ever need. Same computer, much better, expandable system, fraction of the cost. It's a winner in my book.

And did I mention it sounds better?

you got me, thought it was another "Sonar vs. Pro Tools" posts. If only those people would do a search, they'd probally be reading for days.

I have both as well and I agree, Sonar does have a clarity to it that is undeniable in comparison- but to be fair though, DIGI has offered many low priced alternatives in their hardware line up that has made it pretty attractive- for $300 bucks now you can get a digi interface AND the software. Still, no regrets on using Sonar cause the midi eats PT for breakfast as does the 64 bit audio engine.

ORIGINAL: APC3

you got me, thought it was another "Sonar vs. Pro Tools" posts. If only those people would do a search, they'd probally be reading for days.

I may have been one of those people, coming from Pro Tools. Sonar is different, that's for sure, and that's why I like it. I did have some "how do you do that, in PT I did it like this" questions, which were answered quickly by generous Sonar users here on the forum. What was I supposed to search for?

ORIGINAL: sscannon

ORIGINAL: APC3

you got me, thought it was another "Sonar vs. Pro Tools" posts. If only those people would do a search, they'd probally be reading for days.

I may have been one of those people, coming from Pro Tools. Sonar is different, that's for sure, and that's why I like it. I did have some "how do you do that, in PT I did it like this" questions, which were answered quickly by generous Sonar users here on the forum. What was I supposed to search for?

aparently you didn't understand, I said "Sonar vs. Pro Tools" in the way that "which is better" and sparks would fly, these post sometimes take over the forum. Your question on a technique is not what I was getting at, and I completely understand how you would misinterperate it because I wasn't so clear, just refering to the battles I've seen here. Stick around, you'll see them. And as far as comparing Pro Tools to Sonar, you shouldn't compare them unless your comparing Sonar 6PE to Pro Tools HD, which is a whole different ball game than Pro Tools LE, some (no offence) people think because they have Pro Tools LE that they have the same system that is "industry standard". This is like buying a Neon and convincing yourself it's a Lexus. I know most, if not all the people here know the difference, but it really suprises me how many people really don't, it's so hillarious having someone laugh at me for using Sonar, and they think they have "the" professional Pro Tools.

ORIGINAL: sscannon

ORIGINAL: Glenn_H

to be fair though, DIGI has offered many low priced alternatives in their hardware line up that has made it pretty attractive- for $300 bucks now you can get a digi interface AND the software.

Sonar has A LOT more going for it than that $300 PTLE system you refer to, not the least of which is expandability with hardware.

I'm well aware of what Sonar has over PT. I was only referring to the DIGI having "overpriced" hardware comment. In the 7 years I've had dealings with PT, it's come down 2/3 in price. That's all I'm sayin'. I don't think it's better by any means.

ORIGINAL: Big Boss Man

ORIGINAL: sscannon
With that said, why doesn't Cakewalk bundle it's software with high-end custom hardware? That would be exceptional.

That is one of the top things I would like to see out of Cakewalk. Apple is teaming up with Apogee to deliver an interface with extremely low latency when used with Logic. Low latency is of the last remaining advantages of PTHD. If more of these software and hardware designers got together, they could crush PT.

Abso-frickinlutely.

I'm embarassed at the Cakewalk/Edirol joint effort. Yuck. I've got Neve, API, Lynx and Neumann and Eventide in my studio, and Cakewalk teams up with Edirol??

Why not Cakewalk and Lynx? SSL? Or Rupert Neve?

ORIGINAL: APC3

you shouldn't compare them unless your comparing Sonar 6PE to Pro Tools HD, which is a whole different ball game than Pro Tools LE, some (no offence) people think because they have Pro Tools LE that they have the same system that is "industry standard".

No offense taken, I use PTLE and PTHD. I have, however, done many complete, internationally released CDs on PTLE alone. I'd say it gets the job done, and is a valid yardstick for a comparison with the equally-priced Sonar 6. Who that listens to my work would say "that sounds like he used PTLE"?

Plus, Pro Tools LE is in the same price range as Sonar, Pro Tools HD is 25 times the price, because of the hardware. But the software, minus the intentional crippling of LE, is identical. I would bet that most people wouldn't be able to tell by looking at the screen which version I was using. And I'm saying that as a regular, 14-hour-a-day Pro Tools user.

I could put a $4,000 Sonar/MOTU HD192 setup up against a $20,000 PTHD setup, and who would care? It's what you prefer using, where you decide to put your dollars, and who is in front of the microphone.

My point is that even Pro Tools HD software is not as cool as Sonar. But, as Glenn said, you guys mostly already know that. And, Cakewalk doesn't price their flagship software at $2,000, like Nuendo, thankfully, but is equally as powerful.

Please, don't take this wrong, I know you guys have been here for awhile, and I haven't, but I'm not arguing, I'm agreeing, I just think Digi is shooting themselves in the foot by keeping their blinders on to the worldwide userbase that wants more from their LE line.

It's interesting to me that my original post was a quick praise of Sonar compared to Pro Tools, and you say I shouldn't compare them. They both do exactly the same thing. A song is a song. Record and mix it. But I really like Sonar, screw digidesign.

ORIGINAL: APC3

next..............Sonar6HD.......

Yeah, baby!! Now you're talkin"!!

ORIGINAL: juicerocks

Not to burst any bubbles because I am and have always been a Sonar user and never used PT.
But isn't PTLE their most watered down version that they offer?

You shouldn't expect the most robust product of one company to be outdone by another companies stripped down meager product.

That being said, you can't really compare the top of the line Pro Tools set up against Sonar PE6. Primarily because the top PT stuff is hardware integrated and Sonar is not. Having Sonar alone won't bare the same results when used with different hardware. But the argument about the software and plug ins available to each I think is where the playing field is most compared.

i think Sonar has done a good job at providing a great solution in the prosumer space. arguably the
best out there. Sonar vs PTLE or PTMP is just not a fair comparison ... it eats PT's lunch. Sonar is an
incredible value given the amount of functionality which is provided (plugs, features, etc.) for the price
point.

but, when you get into the studio market, the cost differential between a high-end Sonar system vs.
a PTHD system isn't as much as you would think. if you make a business plan for a studio, not using
protools is a death sentence. i know this first hand. we will pay off our PT investment in about
a year's time .. i don't think i could make the same claim for a Sonar based system ... well .. i know
i couldn't make the same claim because we were sonar based before we went PT based and the
biz rate completely reflected this.

then there's the way the rigs sound. i'm sorry to say this .. but Digi's HD/TDM audio engine sounds
great ... probably the best out there. the next best i've ever heard is Sony's Vegas engine followed
by Apple's Logic.

anyway, my point is not to belittle Sonar as much as to answer the question of "why the hell do
people use protools" question... there are some very good reasons to. and these reasons are
why cake hasn't made inroads into the pro market as they otherwise should have.

jeff

i want to see your laundy list of stupid pro tools features :) hehe. hmmm.. vegas? i've only mixed film sound in vegas, never a song. when mixing for picture, sonar feels clunky and akward unfortunately. vegas (and acid's) scroll zoom and movement of chuncks of sound is the best (for me).
I think i remember at one point having an atari was the best thing in a studio :) hehe.

CW knows what its business model is and I think they are laughing all the way to the bank at your embarrassment.

Actually if you get a chance you may want to look over at "The Other Place" interesting topic relating to this yesterday.

The honest answer is...
There simply aren't enough Neve/API/Neuman/Evintide equipped studios to keep a company like Cakewalk alive/growing.
The semi-pro and 'hobbiest' (hate that term when it relates to music) market is HUGE by comparison.
Having said this, our market size altogether is relatively small... So it takes every revenue stream possible.

I've been the first to complain about this or that 'high end' feature that I felt was missing.
But years later... as the larger situation plays out... I see there's been a lot of business wisdom/savvy on the part of Greg H. and Co. Sonar 6 is a pretty advanced application at this point... and Cakewalk is still growing strong.

As much as I'd personally like to have the situation you describe, it would likely be economic suicide.

FWIW, The only "high end" DAW that is thriving is ProTools. And look where they've been focusing a lot of time/energy/money. On the lower end... (M-powered and LE)
Tim Ryan became a wealthy man as a result. Now that's a good story...

If all that matters to you is prosumer Roland/Edirol, YOU are missing out.

How would that be so?

I am not understanding you here.

Best
John

ORIGINAL: John

I'm embarassed at the Cakewalk/Edirol joint effort. Yuck. I've got Neve, API, Lynx and Neumann and Eventide in my studio, and Cakewalk teams up with Edirol?? Why not Cakewalk and Lynx? SSL? Or Rupert Neve?

So you are embarrassed because CW has teamed up with Edirol. How about Roland? You embarrassed with them too?

You do know that Roland owns Edirol. That Edirol is very big in the video business as well as a lot of other things. It alone is probably far larger in size then SSL and is global. But you are embarrassed. That CW and Edirol have worked together for years.Of course long term partnerships should be abandoned because you are embarrassed.

CW knows what its business model is and I think they are laughing all the way to the bank at your embarrassment.

If all that matters to you is a name then you are missing out on some very good products including Sonar.

Best
John

You do know that Roland owns Edirol.

Yep.

That Edirol is very big in the video business as well as a lot of other things.

I didn't know that. But it doesn't matter to me if all we're offered in bundled solutions is prosumer stuff. In terms of hardware, their years-long partnership has yielded nothing even remotely interesting to me.

I'd say SSL is global too, wouldn't you?

That Edirol is very big in the video business as well as a lot of other things.

CW doesn't strike me as a company that laughs all the way to the bank.

If all that matters to you is a name then you are missing out on some very good products including Sonar.

If all that matters to you is Roland/Edirol prosumer stuff, then YOU are missing out. Wouldn't you like to see a partnership between CW and Apogee, for example? A partnership that shows upward mobility for SONAR? Instead, year after year, CW seems to be tethered to the soundblaster crew, and yes, I'm embarassed by that.

Thank goodness Universal Audio let's us play. As much trouble as that card can be, it gave my DAW a complete makeover
such that it's in keeping with the rest of my gear.