djoni
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"Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
Check this video…start at about 4 minutes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx4RbG5HcWk "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!" "Then I open reaper and within about 30 - 60 minutes and I had all the inputs and outputs setup correctly..." "and wow…(I have got sound lol)…I can get a stereo signal on a mono input which sonar couldn't do…" WTF. What is this guy trying to say? LOL
post edited by djoni - 2014/01/22 03:06:12
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SuperG
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 02:39:21
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Bah - fat guy with a guitar... Snoooooooze...
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mettelus
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 03:05:42
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SuperG
Bah - fat guy with a guitar... Snoooooooze...
LOL... one of the comments posted to his video was "Holy crap, Steve! Looking good, brother! You lost a lot of weight, congrats! Nice guitar, too!"  It is a interesting comparison of GR5 vs TH2... I have not used TH2 enough yet to give it a fair shake, but I so like GR5's UI more. Not sure what to make of his SONAR fighting him the whole way comment...
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djoni
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 03:09:07
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SuperG, LOL From the video, I like the TH2 sound more…Guess I have to give it a try in a few tracks (not a guitarist myself…) I often use GR5 and Amplitube3. mettelus
SuperG
Bah - fat guy with a guitar... Snoooooooze...
LOL... one of the comments posted to his video was "Holy crap, Steve! Looking good, brother! You lost a lot of weight, congrats! Nice guitar, too!"
It is a interesting comparison of GR5 vs TH2... I have not used TH2 enough yet to give it a fair shake, but I so like GR5s UI more.
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chuckebaby
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 09:36:27
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ive seen his vid's before, he should just stick to playing guitar.
and let someone else set up his inputs.
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Beepster
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 11:05:46
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Well I didn't watch the vid and I do very much love Sonar (when it's working which X3 seems to be working almost flawlessly) I would not exactly say it's the easiest to use or most intuitive program out there. Now that I know my way around it it really is amazing and I'm getting a lot of cool stuff done as well as having a bit of a creative renaissance due to all the tools and goodies BUT it took a looooong time for me just to grasp the basics... and I still have a buttload more things I need to do intensive studies on. Granted I may not be the sharpest bowling ball in the sea but in comparison I managed to record and mix an entire album in my old DAW (which shall, as always, remain nameless) without ever opening a manual or watching/reading any kind of tutorials. I just kind of poked around until things worked and within a few months I had something deemed releasable by my bandmates, engineering friends and an industry respected mastering guy who offered to polish the stereo waves for FREE because he liked it so much (I personally thought it sucked once I took it out of my own studio to other systems but whatever).
So if the sole point is that Sonar is a little difficult to use then I kind of have to agree, to a point. Once you know where stuff is it is actually quite a bit easier but getting to that level of understanding is a little tedious and frustrating.
Once those barriers are overcome though it does seem to be very conducive to actual creativity as opposed to just another sterile means to record one's material. It's almost like it is an instrument itself and must be learned like an instrument to really unlock its potential.
Just my take on it... not that anyone asked. ;-)
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John
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 11:21:33
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☄ Helpfulby djoni 2014/01/22 15:00:43
I don't know. Sonar is not hard to use or figure out. What is troublesome for me is why it took him 30 to 60 min. to set it up in Reaper? If that is true I think perhaps working with Sonar might be too easy for him. One clue is a remark about mono to stereo. He may not understand much about Sonar.
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Splat 
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 11:32:31
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No one should have to read the manual or learn.It should just happen by magic. Instead time is much better spent videoing and complaining ;) If one declares oneself as an expert then one is an expert and software should work around an expert ;)
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Beepster
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 11:34:12
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Ah but, John you have been with the program for a long time and had the benefit of learning the more "creative" methods and features. It seems many of the other DAWs I've seen featured in general tuts or poked around at myself more or less follow some basic fundamentals based around the PT way of doing things (except things like FL or Ableton) which is kind of based on old analog studios which obviously go back even further. So coming from that foundation and into the X series totally fresh... well it can be somewhat confusing.
However this guy could just be a dumbass (but again I did not watch the vid). I was confused by the basic input routing for all of 15-20 minutes and it was clear sailing from then (in that regard). I don't think I even had to harass the forum over that one. lol
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Splat
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 11:35:34
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Oh you didn't tell me he was a guitarist.... What were you expecting 
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Beepster
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 11:39:20
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CakeAlexS
Oh you didn't tell me he was a guitarist.... What were you expecting
HEY! You wanna go?! *lunges* *trips* *craps pants* dammit!
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bapu
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 11:42:31
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Juan comment.
Too much reverb.
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SuperG
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 11:52:59
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I have this annual habit where I download and install the latest version of Reaper. I play with it for about 30 minutes before deciding I can't stand the workflow and uninstall it.
Anyway, now that Bitwig has *finally* announced a release date, I'm off to KVR to see how many of the Cubase refugees, who went there biotching from other DAWs and are now firmly engaged in biotching about Cubase itself, will make the jump and pass the grump over there. These guys travel in packs.
Popcorn, anyone?
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bapu
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 12:00:36
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Conceptually I like the idea that there is no distinction in Reaper between tracks and buses. The entity can be whatever you want it to be.
Like Super G, in install the latest update. Look at it for a few minutes and close the program. I do not uninstall though.
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John
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 12:57:54
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Beepster
Ah but, John you have been with the program for a long time and had the benefit of learning the more "creative" methods and features. It seems many of the other DAWs I've seen featured in general tuts or poked around at myself more or less follow some basic fundamentals based around the PT way of doing things (except things like FL or Ableton) which is kind of based on old analog studios which obviously go back even further. So coming from that foundation and into the X series totally fresh... well it can be somewhat confusing.
However this guy could just be a dumbass (but again I did not watch the vid). I was confused by the basic input routing for all of 15-20 minutes and it was clear sailing from then (in that regard). I don't think I even had to harass the forum over that one. lol
See, you made my point. You figured it out in a very few minutes. I take it you were doing this cold too.
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Beepster
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 13:05:49
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John
See, you made my point. You figured it out in a very few minutes. I take it you were doing this cold too.
In regards to routing... yes. As to the rest of the program not so much. And even still the little gray routing dropdowns on the strips are rather innocuous and unseemly and within the the track pane you have to make sure the right filter is selected. Not PARTICULARLY hard to figure out but it wasn't exactly jumping out at me. Still these things are covered within the first couple pages of the manual anyway. I was more addressing the program on the whole and... well in some cases the manual isn't always clear or particularly easy to navigate. Thus the usefulness of the Power books and what not. Just sayin'... it ain't the easiest program to learn from my experience.
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John
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 13:13:14
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Beep you should have tried to learn Logic 4 when it was Emagic with no manual for 3 months. Cubase was no easy walk in the park either. Sonar is complex, granted, but its fundamental functions are, for the most part, simple and easy to use. Then agin no DAW I know of that is as fully functioning as Sonar is any easier.
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mettelus
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 13:26:02
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The guy never mentioned what version of SONAR he was using... but (assuming) he has never used before and opened the "Normal" template, 1) he would have to first add tracks 2) he would have to add his plug-ins and 3) the default view of a new track (new project) is "Custom" so finding the input selection doesn't "stand out" or is easily found (and defaults to "none"). These are the type of things that concern me with totally new DAW users who jump into X3. I think that "Normal" template should come up with a few tracks inserted, track view to "All" and expanded enough to see them. I do not recall ever overwriting the Normal template, and thought older versions had one audio and one MIDI track, but I never have seen those tracks expanded, or the view set to "All" (which I feel is most important). For a veteran user, overwrite that template, create others, etc. great... but for a new user this is an immediate "road block" (i.e. "Where do I select my input for this track I am looking at?") Anyway... food for thought... end of my babbling...
post edited by mettelus - 2014/01/22 13:32:08
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John
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 13:33:54
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Funny I can't recall ever using a template with Sonar or for that matter Pro Audio either. But I do know that the normal template is just one of many that are show by using the "New" function in files. And as Beep says its all in the manual.
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Beepster
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 13:37:03
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Well one of those things you mentioned was produced by the same company I fumbled my way through that album I was talking about without any instruction. Not gonna get into a thing about it because it is very much a subjective topic based in how people view routing and recording in general but from my subjective POV it was indeed an uphill battle for a while there.
Heck... you yourself helped me squirm and claw my way to getting those basics figured out. I see those old threads and shake my head now but it really was difficult for me.
However... I had NO previous experience with MIDI and I looked at things from the perspective of someone hooking things up to and through a physical board. That I think is where I faltered with Sonar initially but managed to figure out the older, more stale (IMO) concepts of DAW based recording.
I still look at the more "traditional" styled DAWs and think conceptually they are easier for my brain to figure out BUT they would be more tedious and boring to work with in practice. It's more like plugging cables in and out all day instead of magically making something cool appear/happen with a few quick keystrokes or accessing a context menu.
Knowaddimean? It's better but different and requires an alternative view of how things are done. I also think the program in its X series incarnation is still evolving. From what I've seen 8.5 used the older approach where as this Skylight stuff is like out of the future or something.
All that said I would NOT want to deal with the boring arsed GUIs and methodology of some of the competitors and the others that take a more "unique" approach simply do not suit what I need to do as mainly audio based guy.
From a design standpoint for me it was good choice and worth the effort in learning especially now that X3 seems to have ironed out most of the X series quirks.
Anyway... I should probably be working. lol
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bitflipper
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 14:10:50
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Reminds me of this guy, who goes by "Crush" on multiple DAW forums: "I'M SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW." - on the SONAR forum "I'm so angry right now." - on the Studio One forum "I'm so frustrated right now." - on the Reaper forum I don't read the ProTools, Logic, Cubase or DP forums, but he's probably visited each of them by now, too. Carpenters and tools. SuperG
I have this annual habit where I download and install the latest version of Reaper. I play with it for about 30 minutes before deciding I can't stand the workflow and uninstall it.
Me, too. Been doing that since version 1.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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djoni
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 15:04:48
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I really can't think of an easier way of setting the inputs in Sonar!!! Maybe I've used it for too long…but…really!
post edited by djoni - 2014/01/22 15:16:22
Ekaya Productions
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dubdisciple
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 15:14:26
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SuperG
I have this annual habit where I download and install the latest version of Reaper. I play with it for about 30 minutes before deciding I can't stand the workflow and uninstall it.
Anyway, now that Bitwig has *finally* announced a release date, I'm off to KVR to see how many of the Cubase refugees, who went there biotching from other DAWs and are now firmly engaged in biotching about Cubase itself, will make the jump and pass the grump over there. These guys travel in packs.
Popcorn, anyone?
I do the same thing. I suppose if my life depended on it, i could learn reaper and use it, but it doesn't so i pass. i like some features but other things frustrate the hell out of me.
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djoni
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 15:18:48
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I do like reaper as a little reliable software on my macbook pro when I ma travelling. I think it is really good for that. It is very simple and effective. Although I can't be as creative and quick as I am with Sonar. But I do see it as a very respectful piece of software.
Ekaya Productions
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mmorgan
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 15:49:59
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SuperG
...Anyway, now that Bitwig has *finally* announced a release date...
I'm kind of interested in this myself. Particularly the Linux platform (Ubuntu only). Don't currently have a Linux box and I don't plan and getting one and I imagine the drivers will be a nightmare to come by. So why am I interested? Don't know, kind of curious no? Regards,
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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John
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 16:08:58
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djoni
I really can't think of an easier way of setting the inputs in Sonar!!! Maybe I've used it for too long…but…really!
I know what you mean and I completely agree.
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stevec
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/22 23:06:28
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dubdisciple
SuperG
I have this annual habit where I download and install the latest version of Reaper. I play with it for about 30 minutes before deciding I can't stand the workflow and uninstall it.
Anyway, now that Bitwig has *finally* announced a release date, I'm off to KVR to see how many of the Cubase refugees, who went there biotching from other DAWs and are now firmly engaged in biotching about Cubase itself, will make the jump and pass the grump over there. These guys travel in packs.
Popcorn, anyone?
I do the same thing. I suppose if my life depended on it, i could learn reaper and use it, but it doesn't so i pass. i like some features but other things frustrate the hell out of me.
+2,except I do leave it installed. I find it to be the ultimate in flexibility and customization, but apparently what I'm really looking for in a DAW is not the ultimate in flexibility and customization. But the varispeed sure is nice. 
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Beepster
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/23 07:27:17
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The person to ask about Linux based recording would be gswitz. He dabbles in that stuff and I think that's how he records those bar gigs he's been doing.
Also in regards to drivers... I'm not sure but I think there is a special piece of software that acts as an all purpose driver for interfaces. I forget though because I was only looking at all that stuff briefly before I got distracted by another shiny thing.
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John
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/23 09:02:11
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Beep I think you are referring to jack. Jack is the Linux method of providing low latency audio. The only problem is if you have a recent audio interface its likely to not have jack drivers yet. The hardware manufactures as a rule don't support Linux.
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Beepster
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Re: "Sonar was just fighting me the whole way!!!"
2014/01/23 09:16:33
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Ah... yeah that sounds familiar.
I'm not sure but I think my Scarlett does come with Linux drivers.
Also considering the Linux/Unix community I'm guessing there are a ton of hacks for various devices. The Linux audio stuff seems to be more of a curiosity/challenge for those guys though as opposed to the Reaper dudes who want to take over the industry. This new program you guys are talking about has me intrigued. I'll have to remember to look into it.
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