Sonar with QuickTime, MP4 or H.264 not functioning correctly (still)

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jonogrant
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2015/07/24 12:09:43 (permalink)

Sonar with QuickTime, MP4 or H.264 not functioning correctly (still)

SONAR with any kind of MP4, QuickTime file, H.264 - does not import it's video/audio correctly on the time line. The result is that any score or sound design you create against one of these formats will not export in perfect sync. The result will be late by 1 to 2 frames which is unacceptable for any kind of professional delivery.
If you work with an AVI or WMV, there will be no issue, frame accurate no problem. But nobody uses those formats in film and tv.
 
Sonar, please look into this, it's taken years to even have these files open in Sonar, now that they do, they aren't functioning correctly. Nobody in the Film and Television post production world uses AVIs or WMV files. Everyone uses some sort of QT file or mp4 for video cuts going out to composers and sound designers. 
 
The new Platinum version is supposed to work with all Windows video formats and doesn't need to reply on codec packs like Klite or Shark007; and it does work but this sync issue still persists. I've tested various versions of Sonar and on different computers with different hardware , sound cards, video cards etc. The problem is inside of Sonar. 
 
Please someone do a test:
- import an MP4 into sonar(check that frame rates, sample rates and bit depths are the same)
- export out a bit of the audio as a broadcast wave or take note of the time code at the start of the audio you export
- open the same MP4 in a different program like Sony Vegas or another DAW
- Import the audio that you exported from Sonar into the different program
* The Sonar exported audio will not be in sync with the audio married to the mp4, it will be out by 1 to 2 frames or more. (late)
(This needs to be done using a different program to test)
 
I would be very happy if someone would prove me wrong here... I'm trying to get to the bottom of this..
JG
 

Jono Grant (Film and TV Composer)
Intel Core i7 3930K CPU @ 320 GHz, 32 GB RAM,
Windows 8 (64 bit) . {3 X MOTU 2408 MK3} Asus mboard.
550 GB SSD system drive and 3 - 2TB SATA drives.
Sonar Platinum x64 
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    Anderton
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    Re: Sonar with QuickTime, MP4 or H.264 not functioning correctly (still) 2015/07/24 13:26:02 (permalink)
    Found this on the videohelp forum, may be pertinent:
     
    Lossy audio compression schemes that are based on overlapping time/frequency transforms add a small amount of padding silence to the beginning and end of each track. These silences increase the playtime of the compressed audio data. If not trimmed off upon playback, the two silences played consecutively over a track boundary will appear as a pause in the original audio content. Lossless formats are not prone to this problem.

    For some audio formats (e.g. Ogg Vorbis), where the start and end are precisely defined, the padding is implicitly trimmed off in the decoding process. Other formats may require extra metadata for the player to achieve the same. The popular MP3 format defines no way to record the amount of delay or padding for later removal. Also, the encoder delay may vary from encoder to encoder, making automatic removal difficult. Even if two tracks are decompressed and merged into a single track, a pause will usually remain between them.
     
    When you're exporting WAV, it's an uncompressed audio format. When compared to an MP4 file, I believe MP4 uses lossy audio compression. Maybe that's the difference. I've noticed padding with MP3 files when exporting.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    jonogrant
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    Re: Sonar with QuickTime, MP4 or H.264 not functioning correctly (still) 2015/07/24 13:35:40 (permalink)
    Thanks! That is useful info... 
    The strange thing is, when I do these tests in other programs, Cubase, Vegas etc. I don't get the sync issue. I'm about to test it using Protools free. I'll report back.
     
    Cheers
    JG
     
     

    Jono Grant (Film and TV Composer)
    Intel Core i7 3930K CPU @ 320 GHz, 32 GB RAM,
    Windows 8 (64 bit) . {3 X MOTU 2408 MK3} Asus mboard.
    550 GB SSD system drive and 3 - 2TB SATA drives.
    Sonar Platinum x64 
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