Piotr
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Sonar/CbB bug and workaround - [EDIT] unfortunately not working anymore
I was working on project and added Sampletank3 for a part. Created some short midi clips and it started. Always crashing in the same place when playing or recording. Terrible frustrating. Both in Sonar Platinum and in Cakewalk by Bandlab. Just Sonar-like behavior. :-/ I was unable to continue my work. After some tries with fresh loading of the project and playing/recording I bounced those few clips into just one. It helped. Sonar stopped to be crashed when playing Sampletank3 part. Ufff... But really I am dreaming a moment when CbB will have new audio engine, not so crashy and also resilient for possible bugs in VST/VSTi. And completely rewritten VST scanner and better plugin browser (still it looks like not finished). Anyway in the meantime if anybody encountered similar problem with even playing VSTi part try to bounce clips if you have more. [EDIT] Unfortunately it was worked for a while and now I have exactly the same problem with crashing at exact the same place. So sorry for hope of workaround for those who read the thread. :( I can regret I didn't record at once VSTi output to audio. Now it is again impossible... So if using mentioned above please do bouncing to audio as soon as possible and save project under new name for a case. So probably my only chance to complete my project is to export midi clip, create new project with only VSTi and bounce it to wav and import to my project as audio ... Ech... Sonar - workflow killer... If anybody ever tried to do conversion of project with many audio clips with rate 48 to 44.1 in Sonar knows how many hours it is needed to waste. While not just change number 48 to 44.1 and done? 1 second against hours... But I am stubborn and trying to stay with Sonar/CbB in hope devels in this new program life will do better with fixing problems and improving workflow.
post edited by Piotr - 2018/06/24 11:16:47
Regards, Piotr Sonar Platinum Lifetime
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azslow3
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Re: Sonar/CbB bug and workaround - [EDIT] unfortunately not working anymore
2018/06/24 14:16:05
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Piotr
If anybody ever tried to do conversion of project with many audio clips with rate 48 to 44.1 in Sonar knows how many hours it is needed to waste. While not just change number 48 to 44.1 and done? 1 second against hours...
I will comment on that one only. You want just change a number? Fine! Download REAPER. You can change that number in 1 second!... Probably after a day you will write to them: "I have found a tons of bug! My clips are not aligned properly! Freezing/rendering changes the sound! Its almost impossible to work sample accurate! etc.". This "number" is way more than just a number. There is no "universal perfect way" to change it, by its definition and relation to almost all timed based aspects of the DAW. So you have to scarifies something when changing. But what sounds acceptable/not important for someone can be "no go" for someone else. But you can try. You can even take your current Sonar project for that purpose (install ReaCWP). May be you will stay there, but may be you return with more appreciation and understanding what is good in Sonar 
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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msorrels
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Re: Sonar/CbB bug and workaround - [EDIT] unfortunately not working anymore
2018/06/24 18:48:50
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While it may have nothing to do your issue I wouldn't be so quick to blame SONAR. Back around Christmas I spent some time tracing down a crash in Sampletank when using the Steel Drums instrument that comes with it for a local SONAR user. Narrowed it down to a specific pattern of notes that would cause it to crash in any DAW (which was a lot harder than you'd think given the song that was causing the crash was a full on piece of music). The problem seemed to be related to G#3 and G#4 notes specifically. Reported it to IK with a simple MIDI file that would crash it. They reproduced it and sent it to development and closed the bug. That's the last I heard about it from them, but it still crashes today, they haven't bothered fixing it. I just tried it again right now with the latest Sampletank and the latest SONAR and it crashes exactly the same.
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Piotr
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Re: Sonar/CbB bug and workaround - [EDIT] unfortunately not working anymore
2018/06/24 22:14:47
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azslow3
Piotr
[...]
I will comment on that one only.
You want just change a number? Fine! Download REAPER. You can change that number in 1 second!...
Probably after a day you will write to them: "I have found a tons of bug! My clips are not aligned properly! Freezing/rendering changes the sound! Its almost impossible to work sample accurate! etc.".
This "number" is way more than just a number. There is no "universal perfect way" to change it, by its definition and relation to almost all timed based aspects of the DAW. So you have to scarifies something when changing. But what sounds acceptable/not important for someone can be "no go" for someone else.
But you can try. You can even take your current Sonar project for that purpose (install ReaCWP). May be you will stay there, but may be you return with more appreciation and understanding what is good in Sonar
Alexey, I am afraid there is a little misunderstanding here. There is defined procedure in Sonar documentation how you can do such conversion in a few and very painful and time consuming steps. But why we have computers? Why I cannot just change one number and Sonar would do rest? It is all about workflow. About Reaper's bugs I cannot say anything. Never used. But after few videos I do appreciate ideas there. Seems they are not left unfinished. Maybe I am wrong. Who is using it can say. But I am constantly fighting with Sonar crashes and very strange bugs. On 2 different computers. I do appreciate many advantages of Sonar - did you miss what I wrote at the end between lines? Of course my stubbornness is not the only reason staying with Sonar. But I am really frustrated of lots of unfinished things. Famous trivial to implement ripple button, plugins browser etc. And even more very serious bugs. About conversion if I am not wrong S1 has also such possibilities. Not only reaper. But I do not understand your point. Don't you like work faster and not waste time for tedious work? :( @Matthew, yes, Sampletank can have bugs. Of course but while it is able to crash Sonar? Isn't it about design and layer protection? Just like application should never be able to crash OS (it should be able to protect itself against crashy apps) the same thing I believe is good design about DAW. Of course plugins are external code run by DAW. Like little external program. All bugs in plugins are of course not fault of DAW. But DAW should not let plugin to be crashed by it. This is what I believe can be improved in Sonar. BTW, I just closed project in CbB to rest for today and guess what... Just when closing project Sonar crashed.... Not first time I saw something like that. Another annoying bug.
Regards, Piotr Sonar Platinum Lifetime
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azslow3
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Re: Sonar/CbB bug and workaround - [EDIT] unfortunately not working anymore
2018/06/25 05:30:47
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☄ Helpfulby marled 2018/06/25 08:02:47
Piotr
Alexey, I am afraid there is a little misunderstanding here.
Yes, it seems so
There is defined procedure in Sonar documentation how you can do such conversion in a few and very painful and time consuming steps. But why we have computers? Why I cannot just change one number and Sonar would do rest? It is all about workflow.
About Reaper's bugs I cannot say anything.
I was not mentioning real bugs in Reaper. Just sample rate related behavior which can be perceived like bugs. When a DAW support sample rate changing (so one number changing operation), it can not use "a sample" as absolute not changeable reference, it has to use something else. In REAPER that "else" is project time. But time is continuous, and so everything positioned can (and in fact will be) between samples. Including beats/measures, clip start/end, samples in different clips simultaneous clips (on different tracks or even on the same). But Digital Audio does not work continuously, for audition/rendering/processing it is sample quantized. So the engine somehow should convert all that "micro shifts" and there is no universal way to do this without consequences. I mean the fact Sonar does not support project rate changing has advantages.
About conversion if I am not wrong S1 has also such possibilities. Not only reaper. But I do not understand your point. Don't you like work faster and not waste time for tedious work? :(
Sure REAPER is not the only DAW with changeable samples rate. But it is the only one with this feature which you can install withing 5 minutes (including downloading) and restless un-install by deleting one folder (in case of "portable" installation). Also REAPER is the only DAW which can try to open your Sonar project (since I am the only one who has eve tried to convert complete projects between DAWS). That does not always works and not everything is converted, but something is better then nothing.
Of course plugins are external code run by DAW. Like little external program. All bugs in plugins are of course not fault of DAW. But DAW should not let plugin to be crashed by it. This is what I believe can be improved in Sonar.
While VSTs are "external code", by default they are executed inside the DAW process (in any DAW). In this case, nothing can prevent them to kill the DAW. Some DAWs (surprise... REAPER) support sandboxing plug-in in a separate process. In that case plug-in crash can not kill the DAW. But that waste significant amount of resources, and so primary used for debugging plug-in problems or bit bridging, not for "normal" setup.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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Piotr
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Re: Sonar/CbB bug and workaround - [EDIT] unfortunately not working anymore
2018/06/25 23:11:37
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azslow3
I was not mentioning real bugs in Reaper. Just sample rate related behavior which can be perceived like bugs.
When a DAW support sample rate changing (so one number changing operation), it can not use "a sample" as absolute not changeable reference, it has to use something else. In REAPER that "else" is project time. But time is continuous, and so everything positioned can (and in fact will be) between samples. Including beats/measures, clip start/end, samples in different clips simultaneous clips (on different tracks or even on the same).
But Digital Audio does not work continuously, for audition/rendering/processing it is sample quantized. So the engine somehow should convert all that "micro shifts" and there is no universal way to do this without consequences.
I mean the fact Sonar does not support project rate changing has advantages.
Well, there is another solution. I would be fine with it. If we would have in Sonar option to convert still with one click but lasting a 'little' longer than 1 second. ;) Instead forcing user to seat and fight with many clips, exports, create new project, import in the right places let Sonar do all that work just after 1 click. Or even just save project under different rate. This is what I believe computer should do for us. If anything can be described as exact and specific and repeatable steps it should be not in described in manual but implemented in program instead. With minimal effort of user. One click is enough to express user's intention.
While VSTs are "external code", by default they are executed inside the DAW process (in any DAW). In this case, nothing can prevent them to kill the DAW.
Some DAWs (surprise... REAPER) support sandboxing plug-in in a separate process. In that case plug-in crash can not kill the DAW. But that waste significant amount of resources, and so primary used for debugging plug-in problems or bit bridging, not for "normal" setup.
Of course watching of code run under DAW control would slow down performance and decrease resources. So maybe kind of option which can be turned on/off to run under such mode just to be able to choose. When I am trying open project or run in Sonar and it is crashing again and again resources and performance is the least problem. BTW, Reaper seems to have most option I need as I read what you have written ;) Small, interesting and cheap.
Regards, Piotr Sonar Platinum Lifetime
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msmcleod
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Re: Sonar/CbB bug and workaround - [EDIT] unfortunately not working anymore
2018/06/26 09:01:13
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Whenever I've wanted to do this, I've used SoundForge to batch convert the files.
However this does pretty much mean reconstructing your project from scratch, because (as Alexey says) so much of the timing is tied to the sample rate.
Is there any specific reason why you need them converted? Why not just continue with 48K ?
Mark McLeod Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
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Piotr
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Re: Sonar/CbB bug and workaround - [EDIT] unfortunately not working anymore
2018/06/26 15:09:30
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msmcleod
Whenever I've wanted to do this, I've used SoundForge to batch convert the files.
However this does pretty much mean reconstructing your project from scratch, because (as Alexey says) so much of the timing is tied to the sample rate.
Is there any specific reason why you need them converted? Why not just continue with 48K ?
Sure, reconstructing is very tedious and I would like computer do it for me ;) My reason are some old projects :( and also I have in only one of my location interface which flawlessly is switching between 44.1 and 48. My second one when working in DAW in 48 make problem in OS and also when loading next project with different rate it is not working. I need to close Sonar then manually reset rate in driver and start it again to work with different rate. Very unpleasant :( I would like to convert all project from 48 to 44.1 to go easy with it but huge amount of time to do it manually :( So I always in pain when switching to project with different rate (especially I don't remember which one i which).
Regards, Piotr Sonar Platinum Lifetime
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