Helpful ReplySonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added

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ltb
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2015/04/01 14:44:43 (permalink)

Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added

Sonarworks has just added some of the most popular studio headphones from well known brands like Beyerdynamic, Audio-Technica, Shure and others. Check out the list below to see if your headphones are included!

    AKG K141 MKII
    AKG K240 MKII
    AKG K701
    AKG K702
    AKG K712
    Audio-Technica M20x
    Audio-Technica M40x
    Audio-Technica M50x
    Beyerdynamic DT770 80 Ohm
    Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro
    Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro
    Sennheiser HD280
    Sennheiser HD598
    Sennheiser HD600
    Sennheiser HD650
    Shure SRH840
    Sony MDR7506
    Superlux HD681


We also released a new version of our plug-in which has some bug fixes for Logic Pro X users and some minor UI tweaks. Just click the download button to get the latest version of the plug-in and hear deeper in your mixes.
 
http://sonarworks.com/
#1
Leadfoot
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/01 14:49:17 (permalink)
I downloaded the demo a couple weeks ago and I love what it's done for my listening environment! I haven't tried the headphones yet, but I see you have AKG K240, so I'll have to try that too!
#2
ltb
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/01 15:27:41 (permalink)
Same here. After using the RC software I've completely ditched ARC.
I haven't tried this yet either. I use phones mostly for spot checking so not sure how much this is needed..
post edited by carl - 2015/04/01 15:33:57
#3
rtucker55
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/01 16:09:36 (permalink)
carl
Same here. After using the RC software I've completely ditched ARC.
I haven't tried this yet either. I use phones mostly for spot checking so not sure how much this is needed..


Carl, You really should give the demo a try.
 
I thought my K701's were flat and clean until I got the Headphone correction software. I still can't believe the difference for the better.
 
Likewise on ARC, have not used it since I installed Sonarworks correction software.

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#4
ltb
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/01 16:23:16 (permalink)
Will do Rick,
I'll give them a try when I have some spare time..
 
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dlesaux
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/02 05:06:13 (permalink)
Still waiting for a calibration profile for my KRK headphones. I hope they get to these soon. The buzz about this tool has been very positive so far.

Peace!
Daniel

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#6
interpolated
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/02 16:04:08 (permalink)
I have AKG K702 headphones however I do have one question about why you would need a glorified equaliser for a pair of headphones.
 
However I have e-mailed for a trial version. It's a big price to pay for something that essentially reshaping the audio you are supposed to be hearing. 
#7
ltb
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/02 16:56:09 (permalink)
interpolated
why you would need a glorified equaliser for a pair of headphones.

So you can mix & master using phones & they will translate correctly on all systems.
post edited by carl - 2015/04/02 17:04:40
#8
interpolated
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/02 17:18:07 (permalink)
I've been playing around with it for a while trying to work out the best way to use it. Do you only reference the eq curve recommended or can't you just run it as an eq replacement and then bring the volume after it?
 
The Linear EQ 64 is good for precision equalisation edits so that may be the candidate for the job on the Master Bus. Running some older renders which I know were bad, it almost magically fixed the mixing errors however I'm not 100% how I would use it. 
 
Also I must mention how running the Dr. Dre Beats profile made everything sound terrible. I should have tried some hip-hop.
#9
sharke
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/02 21:08:22 (permalink)
Calibrating headphones will I imagine enable you to make better EQ choices when mixing through headphones, but it still doesn't deal with the problem of stereo imaging and the fact that nothing from one channel reaches the opposite ear when you're wearing cans. You're also prone to using more reverb than is necessary. For these problems you need something like the VRM box which simulates the experience of listening through speakers with headphones on. However I wonder if the combination of this plus the VRM box would be a match made in heaven, because the VRM box becomes more useful the flatter your headphones are.

Another thing I would worry about is using this with headphones you're already intimately familiar with. You might already be making good EQ choices through your cans because you've learned how to compensate for them, and a flat response may take a while to get used to.

James
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#10
Vastman
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/02 23:11:54 (permalink)
KRK headphones, Pleeeeeese!

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#11
bitflipper
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/03 09:51:16 (permalink)
A while back I painstakingly created an EQ preset for my own everyday headphones (ATH-M50) based on published frequency response curves. These are the settings if anybody's interested:
 
Freq    Gain    Q
45Hz   -4dB    3
120Hz -5dB    3
3KHz   +5dB   8
9KHz   -4dB    10
14.5KHz (high shelf) +4dB   0.7
 
However, after going to that trouble I don't actually use these corrections anymore. They don't make that much difference, and even if they did I simply won't make EQ decisions in headphones. Doing so only yields a mix that sounds good in those headphones, but probably won't translate well to other systems.
 
Now, I realize that some folks have no choice but to mix with headphones. They live in an apartment, like to work late at night when the significant other is sleeping, can't afford good speakers, or have a severely acoustically-challenged room. Maybe all of the above. For them, it makes sense to try and improve their headphones to the extent that it's possible.
 
However, I would suggest that when you demo this software be sure to perform a blind A/B test to verify that the difference is significant enough to justify the hassle. By hassle, I mean when you inevitably forget to bypass the correction before exporting and then wonder why your tune sounds so weird in the car. Don't forget to volume-adjust your A/B test, since the correction will almost certainly involve some boosts.
 
 
 
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#12
paulo
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/05 13:27:37 (permalink)
bitflipper
A while back I painstakingly created an EQ preset for my own everyday headphones (ATH-M50) based on published frequency response curves. These are the settings if anybody's interested:
 
Freq    Gain    Q
45Hz   -4dB    3
120Hz -5dB    3
3KHz   +5dB   8
9KHz   -4dB    10
14.5KHz (high shelf) +4dB   0.7
 
However, after going to that trouble I don't actually use these corrections anymore. They don't make that much difference, and even if they did I simply won't make EQ decisions in headphones. Doing so only yields a mix that sounds good in those headphones, but probably won't translate well to other systems.
 
Now, I realize that some folks have no choice but to mix with headphones. They live in an apartment, like to work late at night when the significant other is sleeping, can't afford good speakers, or have a severely acoustically-challenged room. Maybe all of the above. For them, it makes sense to try and improve their headphones to the extent that it's possible.
 
However, I would suggest that when you demo this software be sure to perform a blind A/B test to verify that the difference is significant enough to justify the hassle. By hassle, I mean when you inevitably forget to bypass the correction before exporting and then wonder why your tune sounds so weird in the car. Don't forget to volume-adjust your A/B test, since the correction will almost certainly involve some boosts.
 
 
 
 




I'm curious enough to try out your settings as I have those very cans and some of the handicaps you mention, plus another big one in that I need all the freakin' help I can get, so what would be the correct way to set it up.... output the master bus to another bus with that eq set up in it and only monitor that one or what ?
#13
sharke
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/05 16:00:00 (permalink)
I have your EQ settings saved as a preset in Renaissance EQ, Bit. Can't say I use them much because I try not to mix on headphones and besides I have gotten very familiar with my ATH-M50's as they are, but I remember thinking it did make them sound a lot flatter than they were. 
 
I'm waiting for the day that ARC comes with a hearing correction curve which compensates for individual ear response. I have a feeling my curve would include a 20dB shelf boost above 15kHz 

James
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#14
bitflipper
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/05 20:46:08 (permalink)
I put the headphone correction on the master bus as the last thing in the chain, to keep it simple.
 
Alternatively, you could dedicate a separate bus just for headphone monitoring, assuming your audio interface gives you that kind of flexibility. That's more of a hassle, but it has the advantage that you don't need to remember to bypass the EQ before exporting.
 
Ultimately, though, the best strategy is to simply train your ears to a particular set of headphones or speakers. It's not hard, it just takes time. I've been using the ATH-M50's for so many years that their quirks and nonlinearities are etched into my subconscious. That's why if they ever died on me I'd buy the same model again rather than upgrade to better headphones, which would require starting the ear training all over again.
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#15
ltb
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/05 21:31:50 (permalink)
I haven't compared any final mixes yet but the best way to check this software out is to load it up a profile & start mixing.
One thing is I really like & notice is there's less ear fatigue while mixing with it on.
Also nice to be able to switch between different phones on the fly by selecting the appropriate file or preset.
Fully featured with lots of options to set up too.

I still have 17 days to demo & decide. If the mixes translate like those done with my regular monitors it might be worth the $70.00 investment.
#16
paulo
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/06 06:20:16 (permalink)
bitflipper
I put the headphone correction on the master bus as the last thing in the chain, to keep it simple.
 
Alternatively, you could dedicate a separate bus just for headphone monitoring, assuming your audio interface gives you that kind of flexibility. That's more of a hassle, but it has the advantage that you don't need to remember to bypass the EQ before exporting.
 
Ultimately, though, the best strategy is to simply train your ears to a particular set of headphones or speakers. It's not hard, it just takes time. I've been using the ATH-M50's for so many years that their quirks and nonlinearities are etched into my subconscious. That's why if they ever died on me I'd buy the same model again rather than upgrade to better headphones, which would require starting the ear training all over again.
 




I am inclined to agree with what you say re just learning your gear - your eq settings pretty much confirm more or less what I suspected re the M50's when listening to stuff in the car or whatever, so I guess I was on the right track already, just curious to apply those settings to one or two of those mixes and see what gives.
#17
cclarry
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/06 11:53:26 (permalink)
It definitely makes a difference...that much is for sure...

The biggest problem with using an EQ plugin to do this is
"matching" the curve appropriately and precisely AND using a
"completely transparent" EQ...which there are very few of...


#18
ltb
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/10 08:35:40 (permalink)
This is working well with my ATH-M50's which I never cared for mixing anyway. It makes them bearable over longer periods of time, more importantly  better overall mix choices.
#19
mrneil2
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/10 09:09:48 (permalink)
"For these problems you need something like the VRM box which simulates the experience of listening through speakers with headphones on. However I wonder if the combination of this plus the VRM box would be a match made in heaven, because the VRM box becomes more useful the flatter your headphones are." (post #10)
Sharke, have you tried this yet?  If so what were your impressions?
Has anybody else tried this with the VRM box?

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#20
cclarry
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/10 09:36:31 (permalink)
carl
This is working well with my ATH-M50's which I never cared for mixing anyway. It makes them bearable over longer periods of time, more importantly  better overall mix choices.



That's what I use too...and it certainly makes a difference...
mrneil2
"For these problems you need something like the VRM box which simulates the experience of listening through speakers with headphones on. However I wonder if the combination of this plus the VRM box would be a match made in heaven, because the VRM box becomes more useful the flatter your headphones are." (post #10)
Sharke, have you tried this yet?  If so what were your impressions?
Has anybody else tried this with the VRM box?



I had the VRM, and it was somewhat effective....that combined with this indeed might be 
a winning combo...


#21
sven450
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/10 09:42:12 (permalink)
Remember that Redline Monitor exists as well, and it too simulates the speaker environment in phones.  Much much easier to make panning choices and stuff with this enabled on phones.  Still no replacement for listening through speakers, but I can get very close with Redline though ATH M50s.  They have a free demo as well.
 https://www.112db.com/redline/monitor/
 
From 112db:
 
It replaces the extreme stereo separation that is characteristic for headphones by the detailed stereo image of near-field monitor speakers without any detrimental effect on the audio. Basically it is a so called 'crossfeed plugin' with a few nifty extra's, that add extra spatiality while keeping the sound as clean as possible. It combines filtering, frequency-dependent delaying, mid/side processing, and room simulation to create a convincing acoustic soundstage that allows you to properly localize sound sources. It also adjusts the relative levels of panned sources as they appear on speakers, and moves the soundstage from an indeterminate location inside your head (with headphones) towards a clearly defined location in front of you.
 
 

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#22
sven450
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/10 09:51:05 (permalink)
I just posted this, but it looks to have disappeared.  Weird.  Anyway, don't forget about Redline Monitor.  Simulates speakers in your phones very well.  I have used it for a while, and it is extrememly useful for trying to mix in cans.  It manages to mitigate a lot of the issues phones create.
 
https://www.112db.com/redline/monitor/
 
From 112db:  It replaces the extreme stereo separation that is characteristic for headphones by the detailed stereo image of near-field monitor speakers without any detrimental effect on the audio. Basically it is a so called 'crossfeed plugin' with a few nifty extra's, that add extra spatiality while keeping the sound as clean as possible. It combines filtering, frequency-dependent delaying, mid/side processing, and room simulation to create a convincing acoustic soundstage that allows you to properly localize sound sources. It also adjusts the relative levels of panned sources as they appear on speakers, and moves the soundstage from an indeterminate location inside your head (with headphones) towards a clearly defined location in front of you.
Now you can accurately judge levels, stereo placement, and overall balance on your favorite set of headphones--anywhere, anytime, and without ear fatigue even after prolonged listening. No more night long headphone sessions that turn out lifeless and with too little reverb and separation on speakers. Redline Monitor makes mixes sound identical on speakers and headphones.

Sonar Platinum/Bandlab Sonar
Roland Octa-Capture            
Win 10 
i7 6700  16 Gig Ram
Some songs
Covers:  https://soundcloud.com/cygnuss/sets/covers
Originals:
 https://soundcloud.com/cygnuss/sets/originals
#23
sharke
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/10 12:29:56 (permalink)
I would say the VRM box is going to make a lot more difference than calibrating your headphones, as long as your headphones are good quality. I think the point to remember about the VRM box is not that it's a 100% perfect simulation of the monitors it claims to simulate, but that it offers you multiple speaker simulations. If you can get your mix sounding good on all of them, there's a good chance you've created a translatable mix. 

James
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#24
rtucker55
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/10 12:33:06 (permalink)
I searched on the VRM Box and it looks like the music stores say it is 'No Longer Available'. I did find it on Amazon but it appears to be a discontinued product.

Purrrfect Audio DAW here.  Wow!...
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bitflipper
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/10 12:36:50 (permalink)
sven450, I restored your deleted posts. It was just Aksimet being overly diligent.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#26
ltb
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/10 12:44:46 (permalink)
sharke
I would say the VRM box is going to make a lot more difference than calibrating your headphones, as long as your headphones are good quality. I think the point to remember about the VRM box is not that it's a 100% perfect simulation of the monitors it claims to simulate, but that it offers you multiple speaker simulations. If you can get your mix sounding good on all of them, there's a good chance you've created a translatable mix. 


This also simulates various type monitors, different phones plus custom configs.
Like I said try the demo, I can easily hear what it's doing compared with my room.

If someone here already has VRM please compare if you can & post.
post edited by carl - 2015/04/10 12:53:07
#27
interpolated
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/12 08:56:34 (permalink)
This begs the question that if you need two run your headphones through a correctional equaliser to flatten them enough to emulate the sound in another environment, whether mastering/reference headphones are fit for purpose?
 
In the immortal words of Manuel from Fawlty Towers, "¿Que".
post edited by interpolated - 2015/04/12 09:50:49

I have computer stuff.
 
https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
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cclarry
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/12 12:28:09 (permalink)
interpolated
This begs the question that if you need two run your headphones through a correctional equaliser to flatten them enough to emulate the sound in another environment, whether mastering/reference headphones are fit for purpose?
 
In the immortal words of Manuel from Fawlty Towers, "¿Que".




There truly is NO SPEAKER or HEADPHONE that is TRULY flat responding.  Nor is there a 
truly FLAT room environment.  There always has to be compensation, regardless of the
Medium used to "monitor" it....so there really is no question.

Some are closer then others, thus, being "better suited" to the task...but, nevertheless
NOTHING used to monitor a signal is "flat".


#29
interpolated
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Re: Sonarworks | headphone calibration profiles added 2015/04/12 15:01:36 (permalink)
OK I get what you're saying so perhaps "flat" should be replaced with "tone neutral" then. So when you hear 440Hz it's more precise than approximate. It's funny though, typically they use 1Khz to show the measure of a headphone response.
 
Not everyone can splash out on Sennheiser HD800, AKG K812 Pro or indeed anything made underground in a Swiss lab. Hey ho....my only decent pair I have at the mo are AKG K702; hopefully I will get something sorted out about the Shure SE425 IEM's.
 

I have computer stuff.
 
https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
#30
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