Thanks Drew for elaborating,

I'm very impressed by your thoughts and agree whole-heartedly.

Slothful terms like lush and warm can get a bit offensive when one tries to polish his/her mix.  Polish requires precise Q's and counter Q's. 

Though artists and producers oft debase polish and prefer getting 'that raw vibe' ... both seem perhaps equally important.

Any comments?

julibee

Make sure the baby's vibrating bed* has turned itself off before you record with your compressor mic in the room downstairs directly below her bed.  Yeah.  That's a big one.  But probably only applies to me.

That's hilarious! It reminds me of another one:

If you decide to turn off the refrigerator (which the mic picks up 4 rooms away), do not forget about it and leave it off for 3 days & wonder why the heck there's a wool sweater where the leftover pasta used to be

Oh... and if you keep getting a mysterious hum that only happens late at night, and you've bought new cables, changed all the tubes in your amp, rewired & grounded your entire studio... you might want to make sure it's not the fluorescent desk lamp sitting right next to your head

1. Listen a lot to music, try to find out what elements and sound details you like. How are the songs you like mixed, what emotions do they portray, how do they sound?

2. Try remaking a song, or a couple of songs, you really like. Pay great attention to where things sit in the mix, tonality, punch etc and try to get it as close as you can. Is the guitar riff you love really that much louder than everything else?

3. Try remaking the vibe, sound and feeling of a song, or a couple of songs, you really like but with your own lyrics, melodies and rythm/groove. Try to get it to sound as close to the original as you can - but only mixwise and emotionally.

4. Write the songs you like to hear with the words you like to use - then mix it so other people who like that same genre  will want to listen. There are probably millions out there feeling the same way you do no matter how strange you are, just make it enjoyable to listen to.

5. So what if your topics are: "I'm so hurt by love", "Why did you leave me", "I love you so" or "Back at rehab" for pop/rock/country/r&b or "I love you mama", "I kill all you MF's", "If I die on these Streets", "F*** being locked up again" or "Smoke weed all day" if it's rap - everybody goes through those things but it still has a unique twist every time, just make sure yours is there.

6. Try humming your song, if it aint worth humming it aint worth making.

7. Use great sounds to start with, the better they sound the less you'll have to tweak.

8. Listen again and again to your song - then tweak after acknowleding where the trouble areas are.

9. Unless your learning about something new, don't tweak just for the sake of tweaking. If something sounds great there really is no meaning tweaking and makin it sound worse...

10. If you don't have the exact sound your after don't be afraid to tweak like crazy. If you achieve the perfect kick after transient shaping and two compressors in a row with a GR of -10 each plus boosting over 10 dB with a parametric at 350 Hz (where the mud usually is) then that's the way to go. Usually it's easier just changing the sound but if you feel like going crazy don't hold back.

11. If making contemporary music always force yourself to let the mix suffer from ultra compression even if you think you know better. Todays audience think that's the way music sound, and should sound, and will think there's something wrong with your mix otherwise. If it's not loud enough they wont hear it on their iPods in the subway and if it's not distorted enough they'll just look puzzled (sad but true...). Remember that with some practice you can still have punch in a mix with pretty loud intrisic value.

12. NEVER FORGET!!! Mix your music for your target audience. If it's jazz audiphiles make it clean and dynamic, if it's urban or metal make it loud and proud. If it's for you and your mama - who cares? Bottom line: don't mix it so you'll like it - mix it so the people you want to listen will like it.

13. Try to get your mixes warm with nice precsence and air but without being muddy or harsh. (And don't act like you don't understand what I mean)

This is truly an excellent thread.  I'm finding it to be VERY informative AND inspiring.  Makes me want to fire up the DAW and start plugging away - I don't always feel this way.  I think this thread deserves sticky worthy. 
 
Many of these "pearls" are general enough that we could create our own set of Oblique Strategies cards.

Philip


Thanks Drew for elaborating,

I'm very impressed by your thoughts and agree whole-heartedly.

Slothful terms like lush and warm can get a bit offensive when one tries to polish his/her mix.  Polish requires precise Q's and counter Q's. 

Though artists and producers oft debase polish and prefer getting 'that raw vibe' ... both seem perhaps equally important.

Any comments?

Calling the use of adjectives "slothful" is disingenuous. It is also ungracious.

What is slothful are those who want detailed answers but are unwilling to go looking themselves. It is one thing to buy books, but you need to actually read them, and more importantly, understand them.

I think people here would agree I give pretty detailed advice, but there are times when it is more accurate to say "it is too bright" than to try to guess at the components that might be causing it. We are human beings not machines.

It is not slothful to suggest adjective or adverb based fixes when I am replying to six or seven songs. It is efficient. I and the other regular people who give advice (which there are few) are volunteers. We are helping you out of our own kindness. If it is not good enough for you, if the words we use are "slothful", then all I have to say to you is...

God bless... and expect no more help from me.

Shad

-- Legion I understand vox presence a bit, but might/could ask you (and Shad) to elaborate on: nice presence frequencies that have worked for you: 2khz presence vs. 8 khz presence?
... cause of late, my presence has been a problem for me.  I've erred on excess harshness and have had to slam down high shelf filters from 4-5kHz to 10 kHz on many backing vocs. 
I've had similar problems with honky vox freqs (200 to 650 hz) muddying the low end.  I bet other aspiring song-producers are struggling with this.

I was joking a little, even if I think it to be a correct statement albeit a little diffuse For me to add presence can be anything from 2 to 8, it depends on the material. I think if someone says try to get a little more presence it can be interpreted as "Sweep between 2-8 Khz to find the sweet spot". Also, to get presence without harshness seem to depend as much on the algo in the EQ as the hz or Q. For example the LM Neve 1073 emulation sounds absolutely beautiful on Jattao but makes Dave Shine sound harsh almost just by inserting it so just a q and boost really wouldn't help me there while a comment like "try to get more presece without the harsh" might get me to understand what to prescribe for his vox. Also a tip might be the IK Pultec emu, it seem reaaally hard to push into harsh even where others fail and I've only heard very good things about Stillwell plugs as well.

As for your other problem with muddy honkyness I know the problem and my remidy that seem to work is cutting a little with medium Q at 3-400 and maybe as well as maybe as much as 6-8 dB high Q at specific trouble freqs at the same time as I boost a few dB around 100-180 to keep the intimacy of the vox (and don't forget the highpass so the low boost don't give to much rumble).

Well two guys from different parts of country started talking about how muddy the mix was but since they were both used to different kinds of mud, one thin and runny mud, the other thick and sticky mud, they couldn't decide what to do. So they decided to speak in terms frequency and hertz and bandwidth and found they had common language at last. Low and behold, Mid way through, they were feeling High on the hog.

Well - I for one got a couple of pearls from Shad here on a song I posted in the forum. It was a rough mix and I stated that in the beginning so i was not surprised that it had "issues' to say the least - I was more looking to see if the song had interest. Shad said something to me that I should have known but have not been practicing - I''l put it at the top of my list:

1). TAKE BREAKS OFTEN..and make them a little longer then you think you should. You might be shocked if you give your ears and more importantly your brain a good healthy rest.

2). Post your songs on the forum and get some feedback..however, do it with a purpose. For me it is not so much about the mix but if the song has interest. I am normally looking for certain things - If I get comments about arrangements, or verse/chorus comments I normally know i am on the right path - Mix time comes later for me. For you maybe you do want to know how the mix sounds ( I personally think there are way to many variables)  or a specific part of the mix (Low end, High end, etc etc)..ask for specifics if you are not getting them..

3).IMO - no matter what kind of music you write, Country,rock,bluegrass, acoustic..whatever.. if you don't have a groove..and not just from a bass/drums perspective..but some kind of a strong musical hook..it most likely wont hold interest very long no matter how witty your lyrics may be..GROOVE IS KING..(spoken like a bass player - right! :) )

4). Purposely go against the grain with song structure..Verse, chorus, verse,  double chorus, bridge,verse..blah blah - Gets boring if every song on your record plays like that. Try different stuff - Start off with the Bridge progression - or drive the musical hook thru the whole song but change the instrument and the bass underneath it - modulate the verse and use it as the chorus - anything to break the routine

5) If you like Rock - Force yourself to write a funk or R&B song - If you like R&B - force yourself to write a country or metal song - If you like electronic or ambient - force yourself to write a song with nothing but an acoustic guitar..Yeah it will probably sound like crap..that's the point - make yourself get out of that comfort zone we all tend to stay in - It's pretty enlightening - You will probably find there are things in those different Genres that you like very much but even better it will force you to approach the song in a different way.

6). If you have a control surface - take one of your mixes, make a copy and completely zero it out then get a black towel and put it over your LCD Monitors - Do not allow yourself to take it off until you  feel the mix is finished - afterward compare both mixes - then look at your settings - It can be very interesting when we don't use our eyes to mix and solely rely on our ears

7)....I did mention the GROOVE...right!!!!! :):):)

I would also add:

1. Try to identify when enough is enough. Learn when to draw a line under a song. Because I'm not proficent in production yet, I have found myself tweaking tiniest amounts for weeks on end, ending up with heaps of effects on every track, going completely overboard, and banging my head against the wall. I ended up not writing or playing anything for a month, all I did was tweak - for me that's completely counter-productive.

2. Before playing barefooted at home, make sure you have removed all string-trimmings off the carpet. I had one go about  inch down the side of my big toenail.

3. Don't forget about the wife, and keep her sweet.

D K: Great wisdom to be sure.

Ah ... the almighty groove (#3 and #7) hook! 

Just now, On Youtube, I saw one keyboard synth master ... make/perform his wondrous spontaneous layered groove on his Fantom or Korg synthesizer.

... From a bland metronome (4/4) ... he added funky percussives ... low end stuff ... bass, piano, triangle, clav, vox, and other embellishments into a powerful dance groove in about 5-10 minutes!  (He is an R&B writer)

'Twould be really nice to be able to learn the art of spontaneous R&B grooves.  I wonder if there is a class somewhere for that.  My Fantom is complex ... but I'd sure love to learn that (if I'm not too late).

Legion: Thanks again for sharing your song wisdom.

Rob: I hear what you're saying about over-tweaking.  What about over-hauling?  I just re-wrote a power bass-line on an old song to 'strengthen its dull groove'
... and will doubtless construct more vox samples tomorrow as I feel inspired.

From an painter-artist's point of view, my turds oft become over-hauled thus, until an acceptable new vibe sample or polish fixes it. 

As far as playing and performing publicly, that's widdled down to 3-4% of my time ... at least until these Sonar studio labs produce more of their timeless majic.  IIRC, Yes and other rock-stars did much studio majic with their producer (for a few years) before unleasing their power-gigs.

Methinks, you and I must become powerful with basic musical interactions, their parts, and the whole ... before target audiences get truly lifted up by our public gigs (present and future).

Some of you guys talk of resting your ears oft!  What about the engineers that listen all day 24-7 (almost)? 

OTOH, I rest now as I write to you all, though ... The window air-conditioner makes constant noise which may be more unsettling (I just turned it off and put on my blue ear-plugs ... these ears are ringing ... so that must be a clue that my brain is bashed)

My wife may be glad I'm not running off in adultery or drug addictions 
... I'm a manic-obsessed song-writing geek just trying to enjoy little libido in this short life. 

I'm not even sure this absurd lifestyle is even religiously or politically correct.

 - Never record a guitar without brand new strings (that have been appropriately worn in)
 - Even if it takes 4 hours of adjusting mic positions, amp eq settings and distortion sounds, don't hit that record button (except during the testing process) until the sound is as perfect as it can be and sits in the mix as well as possible. If you spend 4 hours doing this, then you'll need almost no time fine tuning, and it will sound great. If you spend 5 minutes setting it up, be prepared to spend 10 days trying to fix the sound and getting almost no results - unless you're lucky. Now which one takes longest to do?
 - ALWAYS compare these different sounds you are recording when choosing the right sound at THE SAME PERCEIVABLE LEVEL (not RMS, PERCEIVABLE).

Self -fulfilling prophesy !

I just thought of another one:

If you're going to write lyrics, make sure you read some decent literature of some kind. It seems to me that all of the great lyricists actually read books. If you read, you're more likely to know your way around a good metaphor or two, and not just spout cliches and commit what I like to call "rhyme crimes".

So often when I hear music for the first time, I can hear the first part of a phrase and guess where it's going because it's such a cliche/obvious rhyme. As musicians, we both practice our craft and listen to (and learn from) endless amounts of music. Yet people think they can write great lyrics without stimulating their minds with anything beyond mindless TV and action movies.

drewfx

1. Listen a lot to music, try to find out what elements and sound details you like. How are the songs you like mixed, what emotions do they portray, how do they sound?

2. Try remaking a song, or a couple of songs, you really like. Pay great attention to where things sit in the mix, tonality, punch etc and try to get it as close as you can. Is the guitar riff you love really that much louder than everything else?

3. Try remaking the vibe, sound and feeling of a song, or a couple of songs, you really like but with your own lyrics, melodies and rythm/groove. Try to get it to sound as close to the original as you can - but only mixwise and emotionally.

4. Write the songs you like to hear with the words you like to use - then mix it so other people who like that same genre  will want to listen. There are probably millions out there feeling the same way you do no matter how strange you are, just make it enjoyable to listen to.

5. So what if your topics are: "I'm so hurt by love", "Why did you leave me", "I love you so" or "Back at rehab" for pop/rock/country/r&b or "I love you mama", "I kill all you MF's", "If I die on these Streets", "F*** being locked up again" or "Smoke weed all day" if it's rap - everybody goes through those things but it still has a unique twist every time, just make sure yours is there.

6. Try humming your song, if it aint worth humming it aint worth making.

7. Use great sounds to start with, the better they sound the less you'll have to tweak.

8. Listen again and again to your song - then tweak after acknowleding where the trouble areas are.

9. Unless your learning about something new, don't tweak just for the sake of tweaking. If something sounds great there really is no meaning tweaking and makin it sound worse...

10. If you don't have the exact sound your after don't be afraid to tweak like crazy. If you achieve the perfect kick after transient shaping and two compressors in a row with a GR of -10 each plus boosting over 10 dB with a parametric at 350 Hz (where the mud usually is) then that's the way to go. Usually it's easier just changing the sound but if you feel like going crazy don't hold back.

11. If making contemporary music always force yourself to let the mix suffer from ultra compression even if you think you know better. Todays audience think that's the way music sound, and should sound, and will think there's something wrong with your mix otherwise. If it's not loud enough they wont hear it on their iPods in the subway and if it's not distorted enough they'll just look puzzled (sad but true...). Remember that with some practice you can still have punch in a mix with pretty loud intrisic value.

12. NEVER FORGET!!! Mix your music for your target audience. If it's jazz audiphiles make it clean and dynamic, if it's urban or metal make it loud and proud. If it's for you and your mama - who cares? Bottom line: don't mix it so you'll like it - mix it so the people you want to listen will like it.

13. Try to get your mixes warm with nice precsence and air but without being muddy or harsh. (And don't act like you don't understand what I mean)

 
This is great stuff....going in my faves bin.
 
Here's one i've always touted: 
  6) Try humming your song, if it aint worth humming it aint worth making.
 
and:
10. If you don't have the exact sound your after don't be afraid to tweak like crazy. If you achieve the perfect kick after transient shaping and two compressors in a row with a GR of -10 each plus boosting over 10 dB with a parametric at 350 Hz (where the mud usually is) then that's the way to go. Usually it's easier just changing the sound but if you feel like going crazy don't hold back.

Yes, sir.   And in the mean time you've also become well aquainted with a lot of your stuff and how it works and you've  fine tuned your ears well beyond what they were 3 hours prior....not to mention you will not be as dependant on plugs if you can make friends with your basic tools.
 
Great advice!