Songsmiths

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Jonbouy
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2010/11/20 07:06:01 (permalink)

Songsmiths

Although to some extent I appreciate virtuoso players and performers for their abilities my real musical passion and envy lies with the writers.

I'm particularly fond of the self-enclosed and succinct art form of the pop song itself.  There are a myriad of really well-woven and universal thoughts and emotions set perfectly to music that have been laid down over the years that truly warrant the term genius being applied to the creators.

I'm not sure if I've entered curmudgeon-hood lately but I'm sure I'm not hearing the same kind of detailed architecture being applied to song structure so much anymore as the sound design itself seems to have taken to the fore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtoefxZGR6U

They don't write 'em like that anymore.

(or do they?)

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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    timidi
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/20 10:26:53 (permalink)

    Although to some extent I appreciate virtuoso players and performers for their abilities, my real musical passion and envy lies with the writers.



    ditto..

    thanks for the link. Nice..

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    Alegria
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/20 10:38:23 (permalink)
    Thanks for that. 
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    Wookiee
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/20 10:49:08 (permalink)
    curmudgeon-hood

     
    sounds painful
     
    They don't write 'em like that anymore.

    (or do they?) 

    Yes but there not commercially viable

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    jamesg1213
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/20 11:32:30 (permalink)
    Jonbouy


    Although to some extent I appreciate virtuoso players and performers for their abilities my real musical passion and envy lies with the writers.

    I'm particularly fond of the self-enclosed and succinct art form of the pop song itself.  There are a myriad of really well-woven and universal thoughts and emotions set perfectly to music that have been laid down over the years that truly warrant the term genius being applied to the creators.

    I'm not sure if I've entered curmudgeon-hood lately but I'm sure I'm not hearing the same kind of detailed architecture being applied to song structure so much anymore as the sound design itself seems to have taken to the fore.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtoefxZGR6U

    They don't write 'em like that anymore.

    (or do they?)


    Absolutely agree with all of that JB, I yearn to able to write (and sing) like that. He's a much-overlooked writer is Gilbert.

    If I want beautifully crafted songs these days I keep coming back to this chap;

    Justin Currie - Walk Alone

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



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    bapu
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/20 11:55:03 (permalink)
    Artists still performing and writing today that I think are (continuing) word/songsmiths are:

    John Hiatt
    Marc Cohn
    Barenaked Ladies

    More, I'm sure.

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    SeveredVesper
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/21 05:29:25 (permalink)
    Wookiee

      They don't write 'em like that anymore.

    (or do they?) 

    Yes but there not commercially viable

    +1


    Check out my band's song on YouTube!

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    Rbh
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/21 16:23:20 (permalink)
    I recently saw WILCO'S off shoot sort of band called Autumn Defense. This was in a very small  200 seat setting.... Fantastic songcraft.  Nothing fancy about the venue..nothing fancy about the sound system or lighting. Just clean writing and a very straight up performance. Thoroughly enjoyable.

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    alexoosthoek
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/21 17:42:41 (permalink)
    Nice find Jon, memories.

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    Jonbouy
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/21 17:48:40 (permalink)
    alexoosthoek


    Nice find Jon, memories.


    Ahh, yes I remember it was a massive hit in the Netherlands too.

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    Moshkiae
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/22 19:37:34 (permalink)

    They don't write 'em like that anymore. (or do they?) Yes but there not commercially viable
     
    Who cares ... Wookie does!
     
    Ready for a joke?
     
    You're such a good socialist ... loving everything they give you and tell you it's right! (... even though YOU don't make any of that money!)
     
    Whatever happened to "democracy" and the advent of individuality?
    (joke over)
     
    The history of the arts, and specially music ... is about individuality ... so why would you, or anyone here, be a support team for something that is almost completely anti-music in the first place?
    post edited by Moshkiae - 2010/11/22 19:39:47

    As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys! 
      
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    ohgrant
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/22 20:12:21 (permalink)
     Cool link Jon, I thought it was Gilbert and Sullivan for some reason. Great tune. I'm kind of surprised know one has mentioned Elton John.

    Me
     
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    Crg
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/22 20:37:17 (permalink)
    There are many "songsmiths" with very good work. I was into the house concert network here in Vegas for a while. One man, two man shows that made their living off of donations at the door and sold their CD's at the show. A lot of excellent stuff by unknown artists.

    Craig DuBuc
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    Jonbouy
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 04:09:50 (permalink)

    There are many "songsmiths" with very good work.


    Exactly Craig that was really what prompted this thread.

    I just thought ol' Gilbert there was a good representation of that fact.  Not least because he echoes the joke "This will never be a hit!" before he starts out.

    I don't try and write in order to accommodate a market, I try and write because I like the sound of a particular progression, harmony or melody or to try to express an idea that is intriguing me in some way.

    When I engage in a natural conversation with somebody I never think that what I say ought to be commercially viable, merely that I express my meaning as clearly as I can and hopefully with a bit of wit and wisdom borne of my personal life experience thrown in.
    post edited by Jonbouy - 2010/11/23 04:11:47

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    Wookiee
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 13:06:18 (permalink)
    You had me worried for a bit there Jon until I read the last sentence and then I realised that you where in fact OK, that in nontruth the Moobs had not abducted you or done horrible things to the matter that support your cranial bones. 

    I would have said brain but I thought that might be just assuming to far.

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    bapu
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 13:31:09 (permalink)
    Even his 'stage' name is wordsmithed:

    O'Sullivan was born Raymond Edward O'Sullivan


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    SteveStrummerUK
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 13:34:12 (permalink)
    Moshkiae



    They don't write 'em like that anymore. (or do they?) Yes but there not commercially viable
     
    Who cares ... Wookie does!
     
    Ready for a joke?
     
    You're such a good socialist ... loving everything they give you and tell you it's right! (... even though YOU don't make any of that money!)
     
    Whatever happened to "democracy" and the advent of individuality?
    (joke over)
     
    The history of the arts, and specially music ... is about individuality ... so why would you, or anyone here, be a support team for something that is almost completely anti-music in the first place?

     
    Spockpit, I actually nod silently in agreement with some of the stuff you post, but this is a crock of horse sh1t
     
    Just because something is popular doesn't make it 'wrong' or unworthy in some way.
     
    Your argument is really starting to fall apart - it's quickly becoming a case of something fitting these criteria because you dont like it, not for any objective reasoning. 
     
     
     

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    SteveStrummerUK
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 13:54:49 (permalink)
     
    Back on topic, I have to agree that Gilbert O'Sullivan wrote some really catchy music.
     
    In fact, I just thought I'd check out Amazon and get myself a 'Best Of' CD of his.
     
    I wasn't expecting these sort of prices though!
     
    What's occurring?
     
     

     
     
     
     

     
     
     
     


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    Jonbouy
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 14:03:48 (permalink)
    What's occurring?


    It's the added value of getting my endorsement...

    They were all .99p clearance items before I posted this.

    Honest, really...

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    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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    dlogan
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 14:06:26 (permalink)
    James - I've never heard of Justin Currie but that clip was a very nice song.
     
    I've always admired Billy Joel's songwriting.

    As far as current artists, there are a lot of good songwriters in the contemporary Christian genre (plenty of very cliche ones, too). But unfortunately most don't take too many risks musically.  A great songwriter in this genre is Matthew West - here's a great article about him on American Songwriter. His new album contains songs that were inspired by letters that people sent into him, and he tried to convey their stories into songs. It's probably one of the best contemporary Christian CDs I've heard. It's very well engineered and mixed, too.
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    SteveStrummerUK
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 14:07:36 (permalink)
    Jonbouy



    What's occurring?


    It's the added value of getting my endorsement...

    They were all .99p clearance items before I posted this.

    Honest, really...

     
    And knowing how you shafted Bapsi with the currency exchange of your your incredible business acumen, you undoubtably bought every last bleedin' one of 'em at that price 
     
     
     

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    SteveStrummerUK
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 14:13:09 (permalink)
     
    I'll put forward a vote for the marvellous Jake Thackray
     
     
     

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    Jonbouy
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 14:26:13 (permalink)
    bapu


    Even his 'stage' name is wordsmithed:

    O'Sullivan was born Raymond Edward O'Sullivan




    Holy Ringo Starr, Batman, he has a stage alias?

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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    bapu
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 14:35:35 (permalink)
    Jonbouy


    bapu


    Even his 'stage' name is wordsmithed:

    O'Sullivan was born Raymond Edward O'Sullivan




    Holy Ringo Starr, Batman, he has a stage alias?

    Oh, what a world. What a world.
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    timidi
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 15:04:12 (permalink)
    Even his 'stage' name is wordsmithed: O'Sullivan was born Raymond Edward O'Sullivan



    REO was takin..

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    #25
    Jonbouy
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 15:09:10 (permalink)
    REO was takin..




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    Garry Stubbs
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 15:20:37 (permalink)
    SteveStrummerUK


     
    I'll put forward a vote for the marvellous Jake Thackray
     
     
     

    +1 to Jake Thackray, the man was a true genius. He performed once at a venue called The Song Loft in The Cock Hotel (The origin of "A Cock and Bull story" phrase) in Stony Stratford, my local town.  The guy that booked him, the late Matt Armour - www.myspace.com/mattarmour2  had to walk him around the town before the show, to, shall we say, prepare him for performance, which as it turned out, was sublime in every sense of the word. A truly memorable songwriter and performer. Sadly missed.
     
    Edit - I just looked at the link I provided, and realise that the venue, which is my local bar. has a couple of videos on from our local weekly folk sessions - Spot the Kiosk ! Well I never ! One of the videos, in keeping on topic, is from a highly original songsmith in a local British tradition
    post edited by The Kiosk Project - 2010/11/23 15:28:47


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    jamesg1213
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 15:23:37 (permalink)
    Ah some kindred spirits.

    'This song is offensive'

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



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    SteveStrummerUK
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 15:48:20 (permalink)
    jamesg1213


    Ah some kindred spirits.

    'This song is offensive'

     
    Ha ha - I was just about to post that link myself mate
     
    But I can contribute the lyrics for those who hear slowly...
     

     
    I love a good bum on a woman, it makes my day.
    To me it is palpable proof of God's existence, a posteriori.
    Also I love breasts and arms and ankles, elbows, knees;
    It's the tongue, the tongue, the tongue on a woman that spoils the job for me.
    Please understand I respect and admire the frailer sex
    And I honour them every bit as much as the next misogynist.
    But give some women the ghost of a chance to talk and thereupon
    They go on again, on again, on again, on again, on again, on again, on.

    I fell in love with a woman with wonderful thighs and hips
    And a sensational belly. I just never noticed her lips were always moving.
    Only when we got to the altar and she had to say "I do"
    And she folded her arms and gathered herself and took in a breath and I knew
    She could have gone on again, on again, on again till the entire
    Congregation passed out and the vicar passed on and the choirboys passed through puberty.
    At the reception I gloomily noted her family's jubilant mood,
    Their maniacal laughter and their ghastly gratitude.

    She talks to me when I go for a shave or a sleep or a swim.
    She talks to me on a Sunday when I go singing hymns and drinking heavily.
    When I go mending my chimney pot she's down there in the street,
    And at ninety-five on my motorbike she's on the pillion seat
    Wittering on again, on again, on and again and again.
    When I'm eating or drinking or reading or thinking or when I'm saying my rosary.
    She will never stop talking to me; she is one of those women who
    Will never use three or four words when a couple of thousand will easily do!

    She also talks without stopping to me in our bed of a night;
    Throughout the sweetest of our intimate delights she never gives over.
    Not even stopping while we go hammer and tongs towards the peak -
    Except maybe for a sigh and a groan and one perfunctory shriek.
    Then she goes on again, on again, on again on and I must
    Assume that she has never noticed that she's just been interrupted.
    Totally unruffled she is, and as far as I can see
    I might just as well have been posting a letter or stirring up the tea!

    She will not take a hint, not once she's made a start.
    I can yawn or belch or bleed or faint or fart - she'll not drop a syllable.
    I could stand in front of her grimly sharpening up an axe,
    I could sprinkle her with paraffin, and ask her for a match -
    She'd just go on again, on again, on again even more.
    The hind leg of a donkey is peanuts for her, she can bore the balls off a buffalo.
    "Mother of God," I cried one day, "Oh, let your kingdom come
    "And in the meantime, Mother, could you strike this bugger dumb?"

    Well, believe it or not, she appeared to me then and there:
    The Blessed Virgin herself, in answer to my prayer, despite the vulgarity,
    Shimmering softly, dressed in blue and holding up a hand.
    I cocked a pious ear as the Mother of God began.
    Well she went on again, on again, on again, on, and I
    Will have to state how very much I sympathise with the rest of the family.
    Give some women the ghost of a chance to talk and thereupon
    They go on again, on again, on again, on again,
    And again, and again, and again, and again
    They will go on again, on again, on again, on again, on again, on again, on.
     

     
     
    Magnificent!
     
     
     
     
     

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    Moshkiae
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    Re:Songsmiths 2010/11/23 15:59:19 (permalink)
    Hi,

    I think I'll stick with Peter Hammill or Roy Harper ... maybe even some Jacques Brel ... and if I'm bored some Kurt Weill.

    As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys! 
      
    #30
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