Drone7 
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Sounds included with Sonar
1: I need to know if all the sounds included with Sonar are 24bit 96Khz samples or 16bit 44.1Khz samples or a combination of both. And if a combination of both, is there any way to tell when we use Sonar sounds if we are using the 16bit or 24bit samples? 2: Are there any compressed sounds included with Sonar, meaning MP3/AAC etc? I'm not saying i want compressed sounds, i'm just wanting to know because i never use compressed sounds as a basis for any of my tracks, and i don't wish to use them. No song can expect to start with compressed sounds and still expect to sound decent after the song is compressed again into MP3 or AAC or whatever. 3: I know that Roland used RDAC compression for all of their sounds in the XV-1080 and XV-5080 sound modules and the XP-80 workstation synths etc, and these sounds found there way into the Roland Groove-synth inside Sonar, so did these sounds retain their Roland RDAC compression when used for the Roland Goove-synth inside Sonar or did Roland provide the original uncompressed WAV files of these sounds?
post edited by Drone7 - 2015/01/21 22:57:23
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AT
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/21 23:49:37
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It depends on the meaning of "sounds."
If you mean all sounds - well, DimPro and Rapture both come w/ flac samples.
But the other loops and such are 16 bit, 44.1 or higher, I believe. The ones I've checked, anyway, which isn't all the hundreds of loops etc. that comes w/ Cake. And even if they aren't squeezed, I couldn't tell the diff and you can always up sample them if you are worried about different formats causing trouble.
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Drone7
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 15:36:27
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Can anyone give me a more specific or definite answer?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 16:35:22
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It will depend on the instrument/sample and for the most part you won't be able to tell without looking for the samples in Explorer. I don't think there would be any 24/96 samples.
It's also completely irrelevant.
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Drone7
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 16:51:56
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Sanderxpander
It's also completely irrelevant.
Not in my books! And you forgot to say "IMO" If you're suggesting that there's no difference between an MP3 and an uncompressed WAV file, i feel sorry for you. For anyone else who cares, i still haven't had my questions answered and i would like to know! Cakewalk?
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Beepster
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 16:59:37
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Drone7
Sanderxpander
It's also completely irrelevant.
Not in my books!
And you forgot to say "IMO"
If you're suggesting that there's no difference between an MP3 and an uncompressed WAV file, i feel sorry for you.
They are not all uniform but it is easy enough to check the bit depth/samplerate on a case by case basis. Also that was terribly rude and I doubt that's what he was suggesting. The point (I think) he was making was that Sonar will automatically import at whatever the project is using and really, in most cases, it truly is difficult if not impossible to tell the difference once you start working with them. If you find one that isn't cutting it then just don't use it.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:00:02
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Since this is the internet, everything should be considered as "IMO". Thanks for your pity, but I'm quite confident about my ability to discern usable sounds. I didn't suggest anything of the kind by the way.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:04:11
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Beepster
The point (I think) he was making was that Sonar will automatically import at whatever the project is using and really, in most cases, it truly is difficult if not impossible to tell the difference once you start working with them. If you find one that isn't cutting it then just don't use it.
This. I won't hesitate to use an MP3 if it sounds good enough, nor will I hesitate to dismiss a WAV that sounds bad. Sonar comes with a host of instruments and loops, a large part of them third party. They are not uniform and since the ultimate usability is determined much more by sound quality than file format, it's kinda pointless to discuss this. IMO, of course.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:09:45
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☄ Helpfulby eikelbijter 2015/01/22 23:20:55
Let alone the irony of needing some information on the screen to tell you whether the sample you're hearing is good quality, and afterwards coding the entire thing to MP3.
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michael diemer
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:17:05
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IMO, an mp3 file of the highest fidelity is so close to wave that you have to be somewhat obsessive-compulsive to really care all that much. IMO.
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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Drone7
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:24:59
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Not really. You might need to go and educate yourself further on the whole issue.
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Drone7
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:24:59
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Sanderexpander says... "I won't hesitate to use an MP3 if it sounds good enough." Well, and therein lies the difference between your approach to making music and mine, TOTALLY DIFFERENT ETHOS, and dictated by completely different personal standards. It is actually totally irrelevant to me what your ears tell you, just the same as you have made clear that data compression is completely irrelevant to you. What you're basically saying is that if you were to make a song entirely of 'good sounding' MP3 waveforms, and then that song has the guts ripped out of it to be made an MP3 file all over again, it's not an issue to you. LOL, i do indeed feel sorry for you. No one in here has yet mentioned anything about the sounds in the Roland Groove synth involving the RDAC compression i mentioned. Cakewalk? Are there ANY compressed sounds in Sonar, that's what i need to know. Very simple question i would have thought!
post edited by Drone7 - 2015/01/22 17:31:29
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michael diemer
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:31:06
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What part of IMO do you not understand?
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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Beepster
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:32:55
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And it should probably be pointed out that although there are some reasonably interesting loops and stuff included in Sonar you are going to run of useable content very quickly if you are relying on them as a "foundation" for your music. One of the very first things I did when I installed Sonar was put together a wacky little loop based "dance" song just to get my head wrapped around editing in the Track Pane. It was very hard to find interesting stuff that worked together but I did it. Since then I've heard more than a few songs posted in the Songs forum (and elsewhere on the intertubes) using the exact same samples. I think I've even heard them used on TV show tracks. Not very original when everyone is drawing from the same limited pool of clips.
I'd say you could easily solve your worries about quality by hunting down proper sample libraries or creating your own. As a bonus you'll be less likely to run into the same samples on other loopty loop heroes tunage.
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Drone7
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:33:46
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michael diemer
IMO, an mp3 file of the highest fidelity.
If you knew the reality of the situation, then you would know that your statement qualifies as a total oxymoron.
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Beepster
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:35:24
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Drone7
Sanderexpander says... "I won't hesitate to use an MP3 if it sounds good enough."
Well, and therein lies the difference between your approach to making music and mine, TOTALLY DIFFERENT ETHOS, and dictated by completely different personal standards. It is actually totally irrelevant to me what your ears tell you, just the same as you have made clear that data compression is completely irrelevant to you.
What you're basically saying is that if you were to make a song entirely of 'good sounding' MP3 waveforms, and then that song has the guts ripped out of it to be made an MP3 file all over again, it's not an issue to you. LOL, i do indeed feel sorry for you.
No one in here has yet mentioned anything about the sounds in the Roland Groove synth involving the RDAC compression i mentioned. Cakewalk? Are there ANY compressed sounds in Sonar, that's what i need to know. Very simple question i would have thought!
Hey, look at you rollin' like a champ. You go on with your loopty loop heroics. You seem plenty smart enough to answer your own questions. Good luck!
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BassDaddy
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:43:10
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Drone7, your tone makes a good answer less likely than when you started.
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BassDaddy
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:43:19
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It's Bass, not Bass. i7 2700K, 16GB DDR3, 2 SSD sample drives and OS drive, HDD SATAIII for projects, 2 24" monitors Focusrite Saffire Pro 24, Focusrite VRM Box, LAVA Lamp, SONAR Platinum 64 bit, Mackie MCU and 1 MCU XT, Akai Advance 49, Windows 10, Komplete 9 Ultimate, Cakewalk, Toontrack, IK, AAS, XLN, UVI, Air Music Tech, Waves Factory, Sample Tek and Sonivox VSTi's. Overloud, T-Racks, Audio Damage, D16, Nomad Factory, Waves Gold FX
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Drone7
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:48:50
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BassDaddy
Drone7, your tone makes a good answer less likely than when you started.
That's because the replies are getting more moronic and idiotic with every reply.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:49:43
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Learning to not feed the trolls all over again.
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Beepster
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 17:56:59
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Drone7
BassDaddy
Drone7, your tone makes a good answer less likely than when you started.
That's because the replies are getting more moronic and idiotic with every reply.
NO U!
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BassDaddy
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 18:19:39
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Sanderxpander
Learning to not feed the trolls all over again.
Thank you for reminding me. I have had enough opportunities to learn that in the last ten days.
It's Bass, not Bass. i7 2700K, 16GB DDR3, 2 SSD sample drives and OS drive, HDD SATAIII for projects, 2 24" monitors Focusrite Saffire Pro 24, Focusrite VRM Box, LAVA Lamp, SONAR Platinum 64 bit, Mackie MCU and 1 MCU XT, Akai Advance 49, Windows 10, Komplete 9 Ultimate, Cakewalk, Toontrack, IK, AAS, XLN, UVI, Air Music Tech, Waves Factory, Sample Tek and Sonivox VSTi's. Overloud, T-Racks, Audio Damage, D16, Nomad Factory, Waves Gold FX
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rabeach
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 18:46:10
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Drone7
Sanderxpander
It's also completely irrelevant.
Not in my books!
And you forgot to say "IMO"
If you're suggesting that there's no difference between an MP3 and an uncompressed WAV file, i feel sorry for you.
For anyone else who cares, i still haven't had my questions answered and i would like to know! Cakewalk?
mp3 uses a lossy data compression, 16 bit 44.1kHz and 24 bit 96kHz wav files are not compressed. I'm not aware of any of the samples being in the mp3 format. Doesn't mean there are not any. There are some flac files though, if I remember correctly which uses a lossless compression and can be converted back into a wav file with no loss of data. I don't think any forum member is going to do all the work necessary to answer your question.
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Splat
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 19:18:52
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Folks points have been made, please agree to disagree... shake hands and move on...
FYI
MP3 is lossy compression
FLAC is lossless compression
WAV has no compression at all.
Cast aside the sample/bit rate discussion...
If losing sound quality is acceptable for a particular engineer then who is to argue, and sometime you don't get a choice when it comes to sound samples (you have to live with it), I know plenty of hit records with badly recorded samples, in some ways it may have added to the character of those songs.. If an MP3 sample purposely has distortion or huge reverb all over it the quality really becomes irrelevant.
Personally I think performance is the overall factor, production is not just about being an audiophile. However I do strive to get the best possible sound I can get... Making music is all about best compromise IMHO...
Many Thanks...
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Drone7
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 19:41:05
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CakeAlexS
If an MP3 sample purposely has distortion or huge reverb all over it, the quality really becomes irrelevant.
Personally I think performance is the overall factor, production is not just about being an audiophile.
I totally disagree with both your statements. It seems our approach differs... 1: I will never ever use a single MP3 waveform in song production 2: It is most definitely all about being an audiophile in my books. A badly recorded 16bit 44.1 sample can be made to fit within a given context of any song, but an MP3 is a whole different story, it's a quality issue. The former could have character and can be chosen for a specific context in a specific instance. The later is just low-grade! rabeach said... "I don't think any forum member is going to do all the work necessary to answer your question." My response... i wasn't expecting anyone to do any work, i simply thought there might be some long time conscientious users who might be able to answer me off the top of their head without undue fuss. And also, someone from Cakewalk might have been able to tell me directly. If i made a DAW, i would certainly know exactly what sounds were what, and thus be able to answer such a question easily and without fuss. No work required!
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Splat
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 19:52:58
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I totally agree with your approach as well... Each to their own...
I certainly felt like you did 25 years ago, but we were using 2" then..
But one thing I would say, there is no "right" just opinion and approach.
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Splat
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 20:00:42
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BTW I would prefer to be quoted in context, by editing my quote you are making my opinion look as though it is something different/taking it out of context/fairly limited in vision, esp what is highlighted in bold. CakeAlexS
If losing sound quality is acceptable for a particular engineer then who is to argue, and sometime you don't get a choice when it comes to sound samples (you have to live with it), I know plenty of hit records with badly recorded samples, in some ways it may have added to the character of those songs.. If an MP3 sample purposely has distortion or huge reverb all over it the quality really becomes irrelevant.
Personally I think performance is the overall factor, production is not just about being an audiophile. However I do strive to get the best possible sound I can get... Making music is all about best compromise IMHO...
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2015/01/22 20:07:47
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Drone7
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 20:07:13
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CakeAlexS
But one thing I would say, there is no "right", just opinion and approach.
Not in my books. If you had won a competition, and the prize was for you to choose a BMW or Toyota, what do think 99% of people are gonna pick? You see what i mean? Quality is self evident, and most persuasive; people can say anything they want, but it's not just opinion. Take a song destroyed down to MP3 or an uncompressed 24bit version of the same song, it's not a matter of 'opinion', it's clear which one is preferable, right? So, some opinions are definitely the 'right' opinion. Just sayin. If the industry told me i could only make music with MP3 waveforms from now on, i'd quit instantly, throw my passion in the bin and find something else to do, that's how serious i take the issue.
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Splat
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 20:17:00
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Sure the best quality sample is preferable. Who wouldn't agree?
I've worked for quite a long time in professional recording studios, sometimes (shock horror") we lifted samples from vinyl, and directly from a TV via cheap microphone. We kicked in amplifiers, we coughed all over the records. We even got stuff off cassette...
And guess what, a lot of those records were hits. They had a certain characteristic to them... When you realise the overall sound has distortion all over it you get to understand what you can live with and what you can't. And sometimes that weird thing you picked up the vinyl scratch, the tape hiss, the nasty sound the MP3 sound made when trying to compress a Hammond organ is exactly what I'm looking for.
Oh and some of those Fairlight samplers were nasty... yet they added their own uniqueness about them...
It just depends on what you want, if I was recording spoken word or the LSO I would take a totally different approach.
Not everything necessarily has to sound like Dire Straights...
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Sounds included with Sonar
2015/01/22 20:19:07
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@Drone7
I don't think anybody is criticising your wish to use the best quality samples in your projects, so I don't understand the hostility.
But I do think you are missing the point they are making about 'if it sounds good, it is good'.
I could use a $2 microphone and record a .wav sample in the field onto a $30 digital recorder. By your logic, that sample will sound 'better' than an mp3 of the same sound source created in a professional studio.
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