Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone

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s_barber
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2008/05/22 12:13:46 (permalink)

Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone

This is my first shot at this kind of thing so I may have some facts wrong. I'm about to begin mastering a 10 song project I've mixed with Ozone and am wondering about the a proper output level for the pre-master mix. I plan to export my mixes to 24 bit undithered, import the wave and apply Ozone on the master bus, export to a 24 bit mastered wave, import again and dither to 16 bit in Sonar and use CD archetect to create my pre-press CD. I've read several times that a mastering plugin should start with a wave file with the high peak at -6 db so it has room to work. My exported mixes are somewhere between nominally -2 to -6 db. For some reason that I don't quite understand, some files have higher output than expected based on the peaks indicated on the master bus. E.g. The master bus highest peak is -6 db and the output of the wave appear to be -3 db to -1 db or some even have overs. By trial and error I've been moving the master fader down to compensate in an effort to get to -6 db.

First question: Has anyone else experienced higher outputs on exported waves than the master bus indicates and is this normal? Is there a fix?

Second question: If I have a mixed wave file that peaks at -3 db that I intend to master why can't I import that wave and just cut back the level fed to the master bus to -6 db? Just wondering out loud. Would that not achieve the same result? I still have a concern that my master bus exports are not consistent with what the master bus indicates. When you are looking at -.1 to -.3 db when you master there is not much room for error. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks.




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    John
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 12:29:09 (permalink)
    Use the Ozone loudness maximizer to control the output level. It is one of the very best ones around. Also you can dither with Ozone. Some would say it is the best here too. You may need to read up on the maximizer to get a handle on it. I hope you have downloaded the PDF from Izotopte on mastering and using Ozone.

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    John
    #2
    bitflipper
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 13:05:46 (permalink)
    You can simplify your process a bit.

    The first part is OK: export each song as a 24-bit file, no dithering, using Ozone for compression and limiting the wave to about -3db. Limit to -6db if your songs vary a lot in volume from song to song.

    Next, start a new SONAR project with a single stereo audio track. Import each of your files sequentially into that track, adjusting the gaps between them as you go. Make sure to uncheck the "copy files to audio folder" option, since you're working on existing files. By leaving them in their original locations it'll save you having to re-import them into your mastering project later after you've made changes.

    If necessary, add a volume envelope to the track. This will let you make small changes to balance the levels from song to song. This is why you leave 3-6db headroom in the mix.

    Add Ozone to the output bus of this new mastering project. Do not use it for EQ or compression, since you've already done that for each song individually (and you want to do it that way so each song is MP3-ready, regardless of it's going on a CD or not). Ozone's sole functions here are brickwall limiting, SRC and dither.

    Select "Brickwall" mode and set the "Margin" to between -0.3db and -1db. (Many commercial CDs limit at -0.1db but they have better equipment than you do, so be more conservative. Nobody will notice that your CD is 1db quieter than Green Day's.) Turn on "prevent intersample clips", turn on "DC Offset Filter", Select MBIT+ dither, set the bit depth to 16, dither amount to "normal".

    Now export the project, specifying 16 bits and NO dither in the export dialog.

    The result is one rather large file. You'll have to tell your CD-burning app where to put index marks.




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    #3
    John
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 13:14:35 (permalink)
    Darn Bit you make me look bad. LOL

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    John
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    s_barber
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 13:44:45 (permalink)
    That's like EXACTLY what I was clueless on. I'm a lot less clueless now. THANKS A TON for the point in the right direction.

    Listem Here. My web site http://www.lamejohnnycreek.com/. Dell Laptop, 1 GB, 160 GB FW, EMU 1616M, M-Audio 88, Sonar 6 PE, Ozone, CD Arc, EZ, Dim, Dahlia Violin, G & L Guitar.
    #5
    DonM
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 13:51:02 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: bitflipper

    You can simplify your process a bit.

    The first part is OK: export each song as a 24-bit file, no dithering, using Ozone for compression and limiting the wave to about -3db. Limit to -6db if your songs vary a lot in volume from song to song.

    Next, start a new SONAR project with a single stereo audio track. Import each of your files sequentially into that track, adjusting the gaps between them as you go. Make sure to uncheck the "copy files to audio folder" option, since you're working on existing files. By leaving them in their original locations it'll save you having to re-import them into your mastering project later after you've made changes.

    If necessary, add a volume envelope to the track. This will let you make small changes to balance the levels from song to song. This is why you leave 3-6db headroom in the mix.

    Add Ozone to the output bus of this new mastering project. Do not use it for EQ or compression, since you've already done that for each song individually (and you want to do it that way so each song is MP3-ready, regardless of it's going on a CD or not). Ozone's sole functions here are brickwall limiting, SRC and dither.

    Select "Brickwall" mode and set the "Margin" to between -0.3db and -1db. (Many commercial CDs limit at -0.1db but they have better equipment than you do, so be more conservative. Nobody will notice that your CD is 1db quieter than Green Day's.) Turn on "prevent intersample clips", turn on "DC Offset Filter", Select MBIT+ dither, set the bit depth to 16, dither amount to "normal".

    Now export the project, specifying 16 bits and NO dither in the export dialog.

    The result is one rather large file. You'll have to tell your CD-burning app where to put index marks.



    Bit:
    Agreed - the only question I have is:

    "...Ozone's sole functions here are brickwall limiting, SRC and dither."

    I get all but the SRC - I'd use Sonar's SRC - in fact I'm not sure Ozone does SRC - maybe I've missed that....

    -D

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    #6
    s_barber
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 13:56:17 (permalink)
    Yes, Ozone's PDF on mastering. I'm on my 2nd time reading of it. Probably won't be the last.

    Thanks.

    Listem Here. My web site http://www.lamejohnnycreek.com/. Dell Laptop, 1 GB, 160 GB FW, EMU 1616M, M-Audio 88, Sonar 6 PE, Ozone, CD Arc, EZ, Dim, Dahlia Violin, G & L Guitar.
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    Jose7822
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 14:10:40 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: DonM

    Bit:
    Agreed - the only question I have is:

    "...Ozone's sole functions here are brickwall limiting, SRC and dither."

    I get all but the SRC - I'd use Sonar's SRC - in fact I'm not sure Ozone does SRC - maybe I've missed that....

    -D




    He just made a mistake there since Ozone doesn't do SRC as noted. So, NO, you didn't miss anything .


    @OP,

    I pretty much follow the exact same methodology as described by Bitflipper except I use Clip Gain Envelopes for leveling between songs. This way I don't have to create nodes and just use the clip gain envelopes on the tracks that need volume adjustments. I also use EQ with very little changes (+/- 1 or 2dB) here and there and a touch of compression (with a very subtle ratio of around 1.5:1) to kinda glue the songs together.

    Take care!
    #8
    xohol
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 14:18:45 (permalink)
    Export your 24 bit (or even 32 if you're sonar engine is running @ 32bit float)

    Do you have soundforge? Open the 10 files in soundforge and Normalize all the songs to -16 db RMS. they should all have the same perceived loudness then.

    if you are using ozone, you should have it set to dither 16bit. Once dithered to 16bit... dont do anything else to the file, it can then be saved as a 16bit wave file... but dont use dither here as ozone already did it
    #9
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 14:46:29 (permalink)
    Did I understand you correctly, Bitflipper:
    All compression and EQ'ing is done per song before exporting them for importing to the master-project ?

    As a novice I'd feel more comfortable doing EQ'ing and compression to all songs in the same master-project to be sure their sounds match. I'm just starting to study the Ozone mastering guide having installed Ozone3 a few days ago (after superficial tests I love it!)


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    xohol
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 14:51:05 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Kalle Rantaaho

    Did I understand you correctly, Bitflipper:
    All compression and EQ'ing is done per song before exporting them for importing to the master-project ?

    As a novice I'd feel more comfortable doing EQ'ing and compression to all songs in the same master-project to be sure their sounds match. I'm just starting to study the Ozone mastering guide having installed Ozone3 a few days ago (after superficial tests I love it!)





    EQ is an integral part of mastering. Yes, you should EQ at least once. Sometimes twice (EQ, light comp, EQ, OZONE)
    #11
    s_barber
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 15:26:13 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Jose7822


    ORIGINAL: DonM

    Bit:
    Agreed - the only question I have is:

    "...Ozone's sole functions here are brickwall limiting, SRC and dither."

    I get all but the SRC - I'd use Sonar's SRC - in fact I'm not sure Ozone does SRC - maybe I've missed that....

    -D




    He just made a mistake there since Ozone doesn't do SRC as noted. So, NO, you didn't miss anything .


    @OP,

    I pretty much follow the exact same methodology as described by Bitflipper except I use Clip Gain Envelopes for leveling between songs. This way I don't have to create nodes and just use the clip gain envelopes on the tracks that need volume adjustments. I also use EQ with very little changes (+/- 1 or 2dB) here and there and a touch of compression (with a very subtle ratio of around 1.5:1) to kinda glue the songs together.

    Take care!


    I know Ohms Law (inside joke here) but I don't know SRC. Silly me....What is it?

    Listem Here. My web site http://www.lamejohnnycreek.com/. Dell Laptop, 1 GB, 160 GB FW, EMU 1616M, M-Audio 88, Sonar 6 PE, Ozone, CD Arc, EZ, Dim, Dahlia Violin, G & L Guitar.
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    Jose7822
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 16:37:23 (permalink)
    S_barber,

    It just means Sample Rate Conversion.
    #13
    s_barber
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 16:39:22 (permalink)
    Duh, did I ignore the obvious or what. Thanks for the clarification.

    Listem Here. My web site http://www.lamejohnnycreek.com/. Dell Laptop, 1 GB, 160 GB FW, EMU 1616M, M-Audio 88, Sonar 6 PE, Ozone, CD Arc, EZ, Dim, Dahlia Violin, G & L Guitar.
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    Hansenhaus
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/22 17:29:09 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: DonM

    Bit:
    Agreed - the only question I have is:

    "...Ozone's sole functions here are brickwall limiting, SRC and dither."

    I get all but the SRC - I'd use Sonar's SRC - in fact I'm not sure Ozone does SRC - maybe I've missed that....

    -D


    Ozone does not do SRC. I would reccommend Voxengo's R8Brain Pro for that. I would definitely use Ozone's dithering features to reduce word length (converting from 24-bit to 16-bit) when exporting. When doing this you do not need dithering enabled in Sonar.

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    #15
    RedSkyRoad
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/23 07:13:51 (permalink)
    My OZONE story :

    I've always had problems with my sound being too muffled with not enough clarity. I downloaded the demo of OZONE ages ago and stuffed it far away somewhere in my pc (seemed too complicated for me THEN)...

    I actually had the privilege of sitting down with DJ and producer, Adam White, to fire him with a few production questions - and one of my most bugging questions were : "What should my pre-mastering level be in my master bus?" Well, he said that I should aim for a average peak of about -6dB. And asking him how he got his clarity, he said OZONE... Well after applying these 2 tips, my sound clarity just shot up through the clouds... :-)

    I'm just glad that I'm not the only one having these LEVEL nightmares :-)
    #16
    bitflipper
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    RE: Starting Bus Level When Mastering in Ozone 2008/05/23 11:23:38 (permalink)
    I get all but the SRC - I'd use Sonar's SRC - in fact I'm not sure Ozone does SRC - maybe I've missed that....


    That's a typo. You are correct, Ozone does not do SRC. What I meant to say was wordlength reduction.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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